Different beliefs. What sets one above, better, more acceptable/believable than the other

[Fool]

Not if God says its the prerequisite to be saved . 1 cor 1 .21 Kjv

to be saved is still an action.


once saved the belief is no longer necessary. belief is a trigger to a loaded gun. if there is no bullet, why do you need a trigger?

 

[InChrist]

Ergo, spreading the Gospel is useless. Risking ones life, like some missionaries do, is a waste of time. Proselytising is as useful as warming warm water.

It is a waste of time because we can only have acceptance by the ones who would be saved anyway, correct? On account of having potential acceptance of the message, even if not presented to them.

Your problem is simple and not solvable logically. Either spreading the Gospel saves some people who would not be saved otherwise, and in that case salvation is just a matter of being born at the right place at the right time (just luck), or it is totally redundant.

And sorry, in case of the former, then some people might very well have an excuse.

Ciao

- viole

Obviously missionaries sharing the good news is not a waste of time because Jesus instructed His disciples to do so (Mark 16:15).
The bigger concern is those who have been blessed with the opportunity to hear the message of forgiveness of sins and eternal life through Christ or have Bibles laying around, yet reject and refuse such a gift. Those who have never heard yet still desire to know and please God the best they know how will be given much more mercy.

 

[viole]

Obviously missionaries sharing the good news is not a waste of time because Jesus instructed His disciples to do so (Mark 16:15).

That is a no sequitur. If Jesus says X, that does not entail that X is not useless. Or maybe Jesus knew that without knowing, there would be no salvation, which would bring us back to the casino scenario to obtain salvation.

The bigger concern is those who have been blessed with the opportunity to hear the message of forgiveness of sins and eternal life through Christ or have Bibles laying around, yet reject and refuse such a gift.

Ergo, spreading the Word is not useless. It is actually morally reprehensible. This is getting worse.
And who need a gift if you can be saved anyway with the same probability? It looks like the gift is also useless.

Those who have never heard yet still desire to know and please God the best they know how will be given much more mercy.

How do they desire to know and please God if they have no clue of what God wants, since they never saw Bible and do not even know it exist? That makes no sense whatsoever.

But again, according to this, and Considering the eternal impact, it was close to a crime against humanity to spread the so called « Good « News. Much better to say nothing.

why did they do something so evil?

if it is a gift, then maybe we should interpret the word as a German word.

ciao

- viole

 

[InChrist]

Ergo, spreading the Word is not useless. It is actually morally reprehensible. This is getting worse.
And who need a gift if you can be saved anyway with the same probability? It looks like the gift is also useless.


How do they desire to know and please God if they have no clue of what God wants, since they never saw Bible and do not even know it exist? That makes no sense whatsoever.

I never said one can be saved “anyway”, you are saying that, then arguing about it. I said God knows a person’s heart and mind and judges accordingly based upon the information and understanding they had.

If one never saw a Bible or heard the gospel they at least saw the creative power of God...


For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse... Romans 1:20

 

[CG Didymus]

I didn’t realize that Truthseeker9 was Baha’i. I have never had a conversation with this person before. Thanks for pointing that out. I would consider the “Jesus” that those of the Baha’i religion refer to as “another Jesus”, a false Jesus and as you said not the Jesus Christ revealed in the biblical scriptures as God who became flesh to save humanity.
I see the Baha’i religion as just one of the many false religions confusing and distracting people from a saving relationship with Jesus Christ the only Savior and hope for eternal life.

Well I'd rather have them be right, because if Christians are right, I'm in big trouble. But, if they are wrong, who is their prophet, Baha'u'llah? They do that thing where he is either a liar, a lunatic or he's telling the truth. And the truth Baha'is believe in sounds great... God has sent many messengers. They all told people about God and gave them some rules to live by that fit their society and culture at that time. But when the next messenger came, he came with some updates.

So their Jesus was another in a long line of God's special messengers that Baha'i call, "manifestations" of God. So from what I've learned about their Jesus is that he is physically dead. The resurrection story was symbolic... He didn't literally come back to life. His purpose for coming and dying is very different also. Since they don't believe in a literal Satan, then Adam's sin and fall and people inheriting a sin nature, or with some Christians, believing that all people are tainted by the "original" sin, that story is also allegorical. So there is no reason that Jesus had to sacrifice himself. So by the time they are done reinterpreting the New Testament, Jesus is very much like what liberal Christians believe him to be. Something special, that he is from God, but all the "stories" about him are probably fictional.

But, they can honestly say Jesus is very special to them, because he is one of their "manifestations." He changed the world. He brought God's truth to humanity. But what the truth is... is not the same truth that most Christians believe. So that is why I can't believe that a Baha'i would say that their religion is no better than yours or anyone else's. They do believe all the major religions are true. But, at the same time, they believe all of them have gotten off track. So what their prophet has said is supposed to be getting us back on track. That we should unite as one people. And realize that he is the one that has promised by all religions.

Which means for Christians, you're wrong in thinking Jesus, the literal person, is the one coming back. It is their prophet, Baha'u'llah, that they say has fulfilled all the prophecies of all religions. I almost believed it once, a long time ago. But I also almost believe in the Christian Jesus, a long time ago. The problem... every Christian had a slightly different Jesus they believed in. The Catholic Jesus, the Pentecostal Jesus, the Fundamentalist Jesus, the Mormon Jesus etc. And each one of their Jesus' was better than the others. Sorry, but I can't fully believe in any of them right now... including the Baha'i Jesus.

 

[InChrist]

Well I'd rather have them be right, because if Christians are right, I'm in big trouble. But, if they are wrong, who is their prophet, Baha'u'llah? They do that thing where he is either a liar, a lunatic or he's telling the truth. And the truth Baha'is believe in sounds great... God has sent many messengers. They all told people about God and gave them some rules to live by that fit their society and culture at that time. But when the next messenger came, he came with some updates.

So their Jesus was another in a long line of God's special messengers that Baha'i call, "manifestations" of God. So from what I've learned about their Jesus is that he is physically dead. The resurrection story was symbolic... He didn't literally come back to life. His purpose for coming and dying is very different also. Since they don't believe in a literal Satan, then Adam's sin and fall and people inheriting a sin nature, or with some Christians, believing that all people are tainted by the "original" sin, that story is also allegorical. So there is no reason that Jesus had to sacrifice himself. So by the time they are done reinterpreting the New Testament, Jesus is very much like what liberal Christians believe him to be. Something special, that he is from God, but all the "stories" about him are probably fictional.

But, they can honestly say Jesus is very special to them, because he is one of their "manifestations." He changed the world. He brought God's truth to humanity. But what the truth is... is not the same truth that most Christians believe. So that is why I can't believe that a Baha'i would say that their religion is no better than yours or anyone else's. They do believe all the major religions are true. But, at the same time, they believe all of them have gotten off track. So what their prophet has said is supposed to be getting us back on track. That we should unite as one people. And realize that he is the one that has promised by all religions.

Which means for Christians, you're wrong in thinking Jesus, the literal person, is the one coming back. It is their prophet, Baha'u'llah, that they say has fulfilled all the prophecies of all religions. I almost believed it once, a long time ago. But I also almost believe in the Christian Jesus, a long time ago. The problem... every Christian had a slightly different Jesus they believed in. The Catholic Jesus, the Pentecostal Jesus, the Fundamentalist Jesus, the Mormon Jesus etc. And each one of their Jesus' was better than the others. Sorry, but I can't fully believe in any of them right now... including the Baha'i Jesus.

Thanks for sharing your insights. Your post was interesting and informative. I was or aware of some of the details you shared.
I have believed in a few different Jesus’ over the years; the Catholic version, the Mormon one, the new age one to name a few, but then I met Jesus Himself. Or He met me and cleared up my confusion. I think because He knew I was really looking for Him and I desperately did not want to be deceived by a fake again.

 

[viole]

If one never saw a Bible or heard the gospel they at least saw the creative power of God...

Yes, which would make the spread of the Gospel useless. For, as Paul says, they have no excuse (even when not exposed to any missionary). And having no excuse means that they had exactly the same information/opportunity to be saved as anyone else.

So, why are people missioning, or proselytising? I ask because some of them risk/risked to be turned into Swiss cheese by the arrows of some uncompromising tribe in the forest, for something that seems to offer no added value.

Isn't that maybe possible that whoever made up that salvation theory did not pay too much attention to logical consistency?

Ciao

- viole

 

[InChrist]

Yes, which would make the spread of the Gospel useless. For, as Paul says, they have no excuse (even when not exposed to any missionary). And having no excuse means that they had exactly the same information/opportunity to be saved as anyone else.

So, why are people missioning, or proselytising? I ask because some of them risk/risked to be turned into Swiss cheese by the arrows of some uncompromising tribe in the forest, for something that seems to offer no added value.

Isn't that maybe possible that whoever made up that salvation theory did not pay too much attention to logical consistency?

Ciao

- viole

And yet many people of those tribes thereafter have committed their lives to Christ and been set free from their violence due to the self-sacrificing love they witnessed demonstrated by missionaries.
Jesus went to the cross. From the temporal earthy perspective it was an awful brutal thing done to Him by evil, sinful people...all of us really. Yet, He chose to go to that death because the eternal ramifications are forgiveness, freedom, and life forever for millions upon millions.

Creation reveals there is a Creator. It reveals God’s incredible power, but it does not reveal God’s Personal attributes. Jesus, the Bible, missionaries and those who share the character and love of God do that.

 

[alypius]

Since Christianity has zero evidence of being true

Why should this claim be considered if no supporting reasons have been provided?

 

[viole]

Why should this claim be considered if no supporting reasons have been provided?

Well, it has the supporting reasons that Mother Goose would have.

ciao

- viole

 

[viole]

And yet many people of those tribes thereafter have committed their lives to Christ and been set free from their violence due to the self-sacrificing love they witnessed demonstrated by missionaries.
Jesus went to the cross. From the temporal earthy perspective it was an awful brutal thing done to Him by evil, sinful people...all of us really. Yet, He chose to go to that death because the eternal ramifications are forgiveness, freedom, and life forever for millions upon millions.

Creation reveals there is a Creator. It reveals God’s incredible power, but it does not reveal God’s Personal attributes. Jesus, the Bible, missionaries and those who share the character and love of God do that.

creation reveals there is a creator? Circular reasoning. It is like saying that Kryptonite reveals Superman. First you have to prove that the universe is an act of creation, without begging the question. Good luck with it.

Yes, but those missionaries should stay home. Because, as I said, their message is either useless or detrimental towards the salvation of people.

And by the way, that death, was not such a big deal. Everybody would be ready to die knowing in advance he will return alive and kicking after a mere three days.

ciao

- viole

 

[InChrist]

creation reveals there is a creator? Circular reasoning. It is like saying that Kryptonite reveals Superman. First you have to prove that the universe is an act of creation, without begging the question. Good luck with it.

Yes, but those missionaries should stay home. Because, as I said, their message is either useless or detrimental towards the salvation of people.

And by the way, that death, was not such a big deal. Everybody would be ready to die knowing in advance he will return alive and kicking after a mere three days.

ciao

- viole

I suppose if you look at Jesus’ death on the cross in a superficial way and trivialize the event without any consideration of what may be the eternal ramifications for an eternal Being ... you would see it as no big deal. I wouldn’t be surprised though if your perception isn’t based in ignorance, rather than reality.

Jesus' Death: Six Hours of Eternity on the Cross