1. Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

Did the True Church Apostasized?

Discussion in 'Biblical Debates' started by defense of truth, Oct 6, 2005.

?
  1. Yes it did!

    51.5%
  2. No it didn't.

    36.4%
  3. MAybe

    3.0%
  4. Not yet

    9.1%
  1. may

    may Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 10, 2004
    Messages:
    3,665
    Ratings:
    +110
    the master Jesus christ left when Jesus went to heaven and he came back to inspect his faithful slave in 1914 that was the year that Jesus was made king of Gods heavenly kingdom but the question is did he find a faithful slave class to give more responsibilties to , who was being faithful to Jesus teachings , and who was not , so who seems to have been given greater work to do . the last thing Jesus said to his disiples was
    And Jesus approached and spoke to them, saying: "All authority has been given me in heaven and on the earth. Go therefore and make disciples of people of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the holy spirit, teaching them to observe all the things I have commanded YOU. And, look! I am with YOU all the days until the conclusion of the system of things.....matthew 28;18-20 so then have they taught what Jesus taught or have they strayed from that.?

     
  2. Quiddity

    Quiddity UndertheInfluenceofGiants

    Joined:
    Jun 1, 2005
    Messages:
    19,840
    Ratings:
    +1,375
    Religion:
    Catholic
    All the days? I don't think you believe that. Apparently it was absent for a little over 1,900 years. Thanks anyways May.

    ~Victor
     
  3. Searcher of Light

    Joined:
    Sep 12, 2005
    Messages:
    134
    Ratings:
    +25
    Although I may not see the differences, I do see the similarities. Isnt the Catholic church a root of all Protestant beliefs?
     
  4. may

    may Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 10, 2004
    Messages:
    3,665
    Ratings:
    +110
    their have always been ones who have tried to stick to the command from jesus , they have wanted to worship in spirit and truth
    The first-century slave class proved faithful to its commission

     
  5. Scott1

    Scott1 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 9, 2004
    Messages:
    8,303
    Ratings:
    +951
    In the "similarities" of our worship of Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior, yes. In some cases, that is where our similarity ends.... but it is hard to lump up "Protestant" into one group since there are 30,000+ groups that all claim to be Christian non-Catholics.
     
  6. DeepShadow

    DeepShadow White Crow

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2004
    Messages:
    2,924
    Ratings:
    +333
    Religion:
    Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints
    I think I get it...we (LDS) have changes (additional scripture, revelations, etc.) and point to it as sign of a living church. Some are inclined to point fingers at similar "changes" in the Catholic Church over time as evidence of apostasy.

    I see the three fingers pointing back on this one. :biglaugh:

    It's late, but I would like to submit my own feeble thoughts on the matter of apostasy. Given that changing doctrine over time is 'apostasy' only if such changes are not coming from God, it seems to me that the only reliable source to enquire of would be...God. Having already made many such changes in my own faith a matter of prayer and study, it may be time for me to review such changes in Catholic doctrine, and discover if any of them were inspired of God.

    Any profundity in the above statement is attributable to the author. Any absurdity is attributable to sleep deprivation. That's my story, and I'm stickin' to it.:149:
     
  7. Searcher of Light

    Joined:
    Sep 12, 2005
    Messages:
    134
    Ratings:
    +25
    Excellent point, Scott. So the Catholic religion sees the Reformation as the Apostasy? If true, what of Martin Luther's reluctance (at first) to break away from the Catholic Church? Did he not just want to end the indulgences and other forms of worldliness that were later removed because of the Reformation?
     
  8. Scott1

    Scott1 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 9, 2004
    Messages:
    8,303
    Ratings:
    +951
    Bless you my friend... that's all I ask of anyone. I sincerely hope that your studies help increase your devotion to Christ and your church.
    No, the Reformation was not the Apostasy.... I believe the reformation was needed.... and, like the Schism, I don't see the Catholic Church as without "guilt" in what happened. The changes to orthodox Christianity post-reformation are another story, but that is beyond the scope of this thread.
     
  9. dan

    dan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2004
    Messages:
    1,464
    Ratings:
    +96
    A main difference I see here is that the Catholics feel God's church can be guilty of transgression and be wrong at times, yet maintain their position as God's church. Others of us feel God's church cannot err and still be considered to be led by God. The former feel it was ok for doctrine to come about through debate and years of molding, while we feel doctrine had to be the result of direct revelation and never change.
     
  10. Scott1

    Scott1 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 9, 2004
    Messages:
    8,303
    Ratings:
    +951
    The Church can not err... people inside the Church may go astray, but in the teaching of faith and morals that Church can not (and never in 2,000 years) be in error.
    This is a good point... but I wonder what your ancestors will be saying in 2,000 years.:)
     
  11. Katzpur

    Katzpur Not your average Mormon

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2005
    Messages:
    30,333
    Ratings:
    +6,018
    Religion:
    LDS Christian
    Scott,

    Will you please clarify something for me. A couple of posts back you said:

    And now you're saying:

    It sounds to me as if these two statements directly contradict one another. If the Church cannot err, why would a reformation have been needed? And if the Catholic Church (not the people) was not without "guilt," I'd say it sounds very much to me as if it did, in fact, err.
     
  12. Uncertaindrummer

    Uncertaindrummer Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 6, 2005
    Messages:
    308
    Ratings:
    +31
    I have read through this whole thread and still not found one single example of when where why and what the "apostasy" entails...
     
  13. Quiddity

    Quiddity UndertheInfluenceofGiants

    Joined:
    Jun 1, 2005
    Messages:
    19,840
    Ratings:
    +1,375
    Religion:
    Catholic
    Katzpur, do remember that when catholics say the Church hasn't erred we are always talking about doctrine/dogma. A reformation, although it most likely deals with doctrine/dogma it can serve as a positive thing for the Church. It moves her to clarify truths and opens up dialogue within the Church. It gets lazy priest to get up and dance. There is many examples that can be given but I think Scott was saying that the Church sometimes needs a kick in the pants to get moving. Her failure lies in her actions, not in her teachings.

    Hope this helps

    In Christ
    ~Victor
     
  14. Scott1

    Scott1 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 9, 2004
    Messages:
    8,303
    Ratings:
    +951
    ... and you won't ever get one I'm afraid.
    As usual, right on the money!:jam:
     
  15. Katzpur

    Katzpur Not your average Mormon

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2005
    Messages:
    30,333
    Ratings:
    +6,018
    Religion:
    LDS Christian
    I think that's because you are expecting to see something different than we're providing. Scott and I finally had to simply agree to disagree on this. I believe we've provided evidence but you don't see it as evidence, so we're at an impasse. To me, if the Catholic Church is not teaching the same doctrines today as were taught anciently, that's evidence of an apostasy. You haven't seen any examples of "when, where and why" from the Latter-day Saints, and I haven't seen any proof that many of the doctrines you believe today were truly part of the ancient Church.
     
  16. may

    may Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 10, 2004
    Messages:
    3,665
    Ratings:
    +110
    Following the death of the apostles, the good news came to be overshadowed by pagan teachings and philosophies. As foretold, false teachers distorted and polluted the pure message of truth. Gradually, true Christianity was eclipsed by a counterfeit called Christendom. A clergy class arose that tried to keep the Bible out of the hands of the common people. Though the numbers of those who called themselves Christians increased, their worship was not pure. Christendom grew geographically and became a powerful institution and a dominant force in Western culture, but it had neither GodÂ’s blessing nor his spirit.......so the question is who really are the faithful ones doing the things that Jesus wants done? matthew 24;45-47

     
  17. Scott1

    Scott1 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 9, 2004
    Messages:
    8,303
    Ratings:
    +951
    [yawn] Same tired argument without any evidence. [/yawn]
     
  18. may

    may Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 10, 2004
    Messages:
    3,665
    Ratings:
    +110
    trinity doctrine ...pagan...... immortality of the human soul .... pagan Greek religious influence..... also hellfire , not Jesus teaching . torment for the souls of the wicked , is not a biblical teaching .oh dear pure worship out the door, i think it speaks for its self


     
  19. Aqualung

    Aqualung Tasty

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2005
    Messages:
    8,761
    Ratings:
    +604
    Also, being able to pay the priests (in land or money) to clear the sins of your dead ancestors.
     
  20. Scott1

    Scott1 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 9, 2004
    Messages:
    8,303
    Ratings:
    +951
    Oh vey... this is not evidence, this is a list of things you are confused about.... for it to be evidence you have to provide something more than "i think it speaks for its self".:bonk:
     
Loading...