Did the dogmatic Jesus have an extreme ego?

[amorphous_constellation]

He came to bring a sword between family members.

That's awful imho , as a metaphor or otherwise

Only that following a path that is against the norm will likely bring you in conflict with others.

Can't it do anything else , like inspire others for example?

 

[We Never Know]

(Matthew 10):
'34 Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.

35 For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law.

36 And a man's foes shall be they of his own household.

37 He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me.'

In my opinion this passage shows the extreme ego of Jesus, in that He cares more about peoples love of His self than He does about family unity.

What do you think about this passage?

Taking the bible literally is a fault that both believes and non-believers have.

Take for example...
King James Bible
Deuteronomy 23:1
He that is wounded in the stones, or hath his privy member cut off, shall not enter into the congregation of the LORD.

If that is taken literally..... if you play football and get kicked hard in the stones(wounded in the stones) or a soldier drives over an IED and has his stones or privy damaged/cut off by shrapnel(wounded in the stones/privy), then he shall not enter into the congregation of the LORD.

Is that what it means?

 

[amorphous_constellation]

(Matthew 10):
'34 Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.

35 For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law.

36 And a man's foes shall be they of his own household.

37 He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me.'

In my opinion this passage shows the extreme ego of Jesus, in that He cares more about peoples love of His self than He does about family unity.

What do you think about this passage?

I think that maybe the entirety of human progress is based on the steady give and take between fathers and sons, and families, who are always a little bit at variance with each other. If you break that game, and turn varying a little bit into a basis for being enemies , we go back the stone age. No son completely agrees with his father , and the civilized way to deal with that, is to learn at a certain age that it's ok that not everyone thinks like you or agrees with you. If you want to think of truth as a total zero-sum game, then individuals in a family will cultivate their individual understanding of truth, and then beat those truths within them from tools that were more like plowshares , into other things.

 

[Thanda]

That's awful imho , as a metaphor or otherwise

k

Can't it do anything else , like inspire others for example?

Yes - that was covered in the whole "you are the salt of the earth speech".

 

[halbhh]

(Matthew 10):
'34 Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.

35 For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law.

36 And a man's foes shall be they of his own household.

37 He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me.'

In my opinion this passage shows the extreme ego of Jesus, in that He cares more about peoples love of His self than He does about family unity.

What do you think about this passage?

The natural tendency of the human brain when trying to guess about the thoughts/attitudes/heart of a stranger who we barely know is to do "psychological projection".

If you read about that, you can see how anyone would tend to project when trying to guess at another's thoughts/attitudes with so little to go on. Having learned this, I try to always refrain from far reaching conclusions about strangers whom I don't know well. I don't want to merely project my own stuff I didn't realize is just my own self, onto others.

 

[amorphous_constellation]

The natural tendency of the human brain when trying to guess about the thoughts/attitudes/heart of a stranger who we barely know is to do "psychological projection".

If you read about that, you can see how anyone would tend to project when trying to guess at another's thoughts/attitudes with so little to go on. Having learned this, I try to always refrain from far reaching conclusions about strangers whom I don't know well. I don't want to merely project my own stuff I didn't realize is just my own self, onto others.

Well, why not say that you shouldn't do that for the others, and you shouldn't do that with your family as well.. And I also don't understand the point your making either. This psychological projection thing is also a basis from empathizing with your fellow humans too , you project on them the fact that they have a better nature as well. I mean I don't naively assume the best about everyone, but I don't assume the worst, in ignorance. Overall though, I think the trains of thought we see in this thread just outline how much this passage lacks the explanation it clearly needs , it is an extremely abstract metaphor about extreme anti-social behavior . It is why I'd rather read philosophers of Jesus's period rather than Jesus : if they put forth an odd idea, they would explain it with long tracts , and that way , their ideas wouldn't remain as elusive maxims , but you might see why they put forth ideas

 

[alypius]

In my opinion this passage shows the extreme ego of Jesus, in that He cares more about peoples love of His self than He does about family unity.

If Jesus were God, then could the statement be justified?

 

[danieldemol]

If Jesus were God, then could the statement be justified?

Only if you believe that your God has an ego. But laying aside arguments along the lines of, "because the scriptures say so" what use would your God have for an ego?

 

[Brian2]

Only if you believe that your God has an ego. But laying aside arguments along the lines of, "because the scriptures say so" what use would your God have for an ego?

It might help my God distinguish Himself from everyone else.
It depends what is meant by "ego".
When there was nothing else by God, the Father might have looked at the Son and seen Himself, His ego..
If Jesus looked at the Father He might see Himself there, His ego.

 

[halbhh]

Well, why not say that you shouldn't do that for the others, and you shouldn't do that with your family as well..

Can a person project onto a close family member (in their own house they've known for years)? It can happen, but it's not a sure thing to happen. Often enough we can correctly notice when something is just our own tendency and not project it onto our spouse, when we've been married for 15 or 20 years.

In contrast, for someone to attribute characteristics to Jesus different than the accounts, such as attributing egoism to him as the OP did, is pretty much guaranteed to be projection.

This psychological projection thing is also a basis from empathizing with your fellow humans too , you project on them the fact that they have a better nature as well. I mean I don't naively assume the best about everyone, but I don't assume the worst, in ignorance.

Yes, that's right. Good points, and a good habit.

Overall though, I think the trains of thought we see in this thread just outline how much this passage lacks the explanation it clearly needs

That's fair.

Reading just 1 or 6 passage(s) in isolation would not be enough to know much that was clearly laid out about Jesus's actions and character.

(Compared to what is clearly related in the full accounts of the gospels, which have many chapters each.)

 

[Muffled]

(Matthew 10):
'34 Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.

35 For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law.

36 And a man's foes shall be they of his own household.

37 He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me.'

In my opinion this passage shows the extreme ego of Jesus, in that He cares more about peoples love of His self than He does about family unity.

What do you think about this passage?

I believe as God He has every right to be considered first among all things.

 

[Muffled]

Imagine what would happen if someone came around now saying the same thing.

Kind of put things in perspective.

I believe if someone who isn't God said it then it would be dogmatic and egotistic.

 

[Muffled]

Except his in Christianity where worship of God is compulsory and critique of Him is a unforgivable sin. Jesus also present himself as the sole and only path to truth and that one's loyalty to him must be above any others (the passage referenced in the OP). You know what people say about ''red flags and dangerous cults''. He hits all of them in these passages.

I believe a cult is a fake but Jesus is the real thing.

 

[amorphous_constellation]

Reading just 1 or 6 passage(s) in isolation would not be enough to know much that was clearly laid out about Jesus's actions and character.

(Compared to what is clearly related in the full accounts of the gospels, which have many chapters each.)

But really , the four gospels are all sort of variations on one story, not even differing much on the events reported. And in those many chapters, mostly Jesus gives extremely truncated explanations, the sayings are like headlines. To me it always just lacked all the detail it needed , I would need Jesus to write a ton of books, and be here now explaining everything, for me to really believe what these accounts are giving just a hint of

 

[halbhh]

But really , the four gospels are all sort of variations on one story, not even differing much on the events reported. And in those many chapters, mostly Jesus gives extremely truncated explanations, the sayings are like headlines. To me it always just lacked all the detail it needed , I would need Jesus to write a ton of books, and be here now explaining everything, for me to really believe what these accounts are giving just a hint of

Yes, He spoke in ways that sometimes it helps a great deal to have explained at least once or twice, and in the gospel accounts some of His explanations are actually given, very helpfully.

But the most key things are pretty clear already even at first reading: John 15:12 This is My commandment, that you love one another as I have loved you. -- and we all sorta get that one right off, the first reading, I think. And it's very central and key. So, the primary or first things -- things that need to come early -- are things can be gotten early, and then one learns more over time, by listening intently and then naturally growing over time.

 

[danieldemol]

It might help my God distinguish Himself from everyone else.
It depends what is meant by "ego".
When there was nothing else by God, the Father might have looked at the Son and seen Himself, His ego..
If Jesus looked at the Father He might see Himself there, His ego.

In my opinion you are calling identity ego here.

 

[74x12]

(Matthew 10):
'34 Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.

35 For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law.

36 And a man's foes shall be they of his own household.

37 He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me.'

In my opinion this passage shows the extreme ego of Jesus, in that He cares more about peoples love of His self than He does about family unity.

What do you think about this passage?

I believe Jesus speaks of Himself as the Word of God made flesh. He himself is the sword. Unfortunately because the sword divides always by cutting deep it divides even families.

The Word of God always worked since the beginning by dividing. For example the first thing God did in Genesis chapter 1 is divide light from darkness. Then he immediately divided the land from the sea.

In this case the Word of God is dividing between living and dead. As Jesus said soon everyone who hears his voice will come to life. (John 5:25) Those who believe the gospel are being brought to life and so they're divided from even their families who choose to remain among the dead.

Luke 9:59-60
And he said unto another, Follow me. But he said, Lord, suffer me first to go and bury my father. Jesus said unto him, Let the dead bury their dead: but go thou and preach the kingdom of God.

(Ephesians 5:14)
Wherefore he saith, Awake thou that sleepest, and arise from the dead, and Christ shall give thee light.

 

[amorphous_constellation]

Luke 9:59-60
And he said unto another, Follow me. But he said, Lord, suffer me first to go and bury my father. Jesus said unto him, Let the dead bury their dead: but go thou and preach the kingdom of God.

ok, if that's so profound and wise, give a modern example of this happening. In what situation should a person not attend the very funeral of a parent they otherwise respect , in modern life

 

[danieldemol]

ok, if that's so profound and wise, give a modern example of this happening. In what situation should a person not attend the very funeral of a parent they otherwise respect , in modern life

It would also seem to portray Jesus as an "or" person rather than an "and" person, couldn't the person spoken to have attended the funeral and preached the gospel?

 

[amorphous_constellation]

It would also seem to portray Jesus as an "or" person rather than an "and" person, couldn't the person spoken to have attended the funeral and preached the gospel?

I don't understand why a contradiction needs to occur between trying to follow a few social norms and preaching christianity