Did the Abrahamic God Create Evil?

[ashai]

An ethnic cleansing of the sort mentioned here was not particularly seen by the writers as an evil thing. It was seen as a cleansing of evil.

Ushta Sojourner

Aha! The writer made Him do it defense!! The point is, that if there is a God, He, She or It, has to be superior in kind to creation, Superior in every way, that is. including, specially ethically:bounce When Yahweh orders genocide he utterly fails the test of how a god has to be to be god, for if god is capable of doing or ordering acts so despicable that even the majority of us flawed and immature humans find abominable, he is definitely no better than us and certainly much worse than most of us

IF WE BELIEVE AND WORSHIP A GOD IN THE IMAGE OF ADOLPH HITLER, TIMUR THE LAME, MAO TSE TUNG AND POL POT, WE DO SO AT OUR OWN PERIL

Such a god cannot possibly be good let alone loving and, in my book, is not worthy of any praise, or worship, let alone, faith or belief:tsk:

Ushta te
Ashai

 

[ashai]

Ushta Jewish scout

Good an evil are not creations, they are name we give to the possible result of our choice. These exist inherently as possibilities, that is their existance is unmanifested , until some one actually makes a choice whose consequence we call evil or good, right or wrong Evil and good are not things they are results of choices as such they are not v created by God unless god chooses them.

Therefore, if god chooses evil then he cannot possibly condemn those that choose evil and be just.

In free will God gives ability to choose but the choice is always men. Since man cannot possibly know what is evil and which is good without experiencing the consequences of his choice, God cannot punish evil doers whenthey had A)No way of knowing what is good ( unless of course you believe that god walked about the garden of eden abd told them) and B) the evil result is given by God

Only informed free will can hope to make a wisw choice. but just telling some one this is bad does not solve the roblem because must people will noyt just accept some one else's word nn

Besides, all this is related to the purpose of creation. today we understand the sheer gtandiosity of creation, in ways that were impossible to Biblk\e writers. So I am going to ask you a rhetorical question, do you really believe that a) God created man so that he may worship , glorify and serve Him and B) Do you truly believe after watching the history of man for the last 5000 years that we are truly created in god's image/

While you answer I will answer the questions myself from our ( Zoroastrian) point of view

A) It does not make sense that a being or force capable of such grandiose creation. would need or want praise, worship or servitude from His creatures
B) It does not make sense that a creature as obviously immature as man is the image of God. Rather

We believe that the purpose of creation is precisely to have these immature beings become like unto the Most Wise:dan:

Aw Shucks, Forgive the terrible spelling I was in a very big hurry:bonk:

 

[Ody]

Aw Shucks, Forgive the terrible spelling I was in a very big hurry:bonk:

Its o.k. its understandable

 

[jewscout]

Evil is good...wha...??? Now you're overanalyzing. By definition, evil is evil. You're misunderstanding what I'm saying. Evil isn't anyone's creation. Evil is only what results in the absence of good. So...now humanity needs evil in order to attain to something higher? What ever happened to love God?

again i think this is where we have to disagree, i don't think that evil is the absence of anything, evil exists as a mechanism for our betterment, or rather desires and temptations that can ultimately lead to evil.

You ask "what ever happened to love G-d?"
what better way to show you love to HaShem than to be tempted and choose NOT to engage in that which is evil.
again, a person who is never tested never grows or is refined. Look at Job, who was tested by The satan, under orders from G-d, and to show his love to G-d he did not turn away from his faith in Him. How much higher elevated is that Job from the Job who was never tested or had to prove his dedication to HaShem?

 

[sojourner]

Ushta Sojourner

Aha! The writer made Him do it defense!! The point is, that if there is a God, He, She or It, has to be superior in kind to creation, Superior in every way, that is. including, specially ethically:bounce When Yahweh orders genocide he utterly fails the test of how a god has to be to be god, for if god is capable of doing or ordering acts so despicable that even the majority of us flawed and immature humans find abominable, he is definitely no better than us and certainly much worse than most of us

IF WE BELIEVE AND WORSHIP A GOD IN THE IMAGE OF ADOLPH HITLER, TIMUR THE LAME, MAO TSE TUNG AND POL POT, WE DO SO AT OUR OWN PERIL

Such a god cannot possibly be good let alone loving and, in my book, is not worthy of any praise, or worship, let alone, faith or belief:tsk:

Ushta te
Ashai

All of that's true...in the global world of the 20th and 21st century. But in the mind of the ancient Hebrews, different story. They presented God as they saw God...not as we see God. To the ancient Hebrews, God was God of their nation -- tied to geography, and who lived on a mountain. We don't think of God in those terms anymore. To the ancient Hebrews, keeping the bloodlines and the culture pure was important in their posture of righteousness. To us, embracing the melting-pot of society is important in our posture of righteousness.

Today's Judeo-Christian God is not presented in the terms of ancient Canaan, and rightfully so. And I think it's a gross act of misinterpretation to use these ancient stories of God's wrath against people to justify the stance that God is small, that God hates some, that God wreaks or creates evil, or condones evil in any way.

 

[sojourner]

again i think this is where we have to disagree, i don't think that evil is the absence of anything, evil exists as a mechanism for our betterment, or rather desires and temptations that can ultimately lead to evil.

You ask "what ever happened to love G-d?"
what better way to show you love to HaShem than to be tempted and choose NOT to engage in that which is evil.
again, a person who is never tested never grows or is refined. Look at Job, who was tested by The satan, under orders from G-d, and to show his love to G-d he did not turn away from his faith in Him. How much higher elevated is that Job from the Job who was never tested or had to prove his dedication to HaShem?

What better way to show your love for God than to turn from selfishness and embrace the selfless love that God desires of us? We're saying the same thing here. I would just caution you to be very careful about elevating evil to the status of a way to find God, or to the status of a tool that God created for God's use. I do think that God works God's grace within the milieu of human sin, and within the evil of the world. I believe that God "makes lemonade out of lemons." But I think that "created evil so that we could find God" is going too far.

Do you see how we're becoming involved in the very deep theological questions of humanity? What is evil? How do we deal with temptation? Where is God in all of this? I'm not sure there's an easy answer. Actually, I'm sure there's not an easy answer. But, I am sure that God is good, and I am sure that God wants us to love God and to love each other. Humanity will always question the presence of evil and will always attempt to explain it theologically. And we will never come up with an answer that completely satisfies the questions.

 

[jewscout]

i don't disagree with you there...
let me just clarify that i don't see engaging in evil as a way to find G-d, but it is there nonetheless and it is up to us to turn to G-d and not to give in to our baser selfish desires and to control them.

 

[sojourner]

i don't disagree with you there...
let me just clarify that i don't see engaging in evil as a way to find G-d, but it is there nonetheless and it is up to us to turn to G-d and not to give in to our baser selfish desires and to control them.

:highfive: :clap

 

[alexander garcia]

Hi it depends on ones form of belief cause to some there is no good or evil but if you are looking to what scripture says YES He did Isa 45:7

 

[sojourner]

Hi it depends on ones form of belief cause to some there is no good or evil but if you are looking to what scripture says YES He did Isa 45:7

Look at page three. Isa 45:7 is translated as "woe," not "evil" in some translations, so scripture here is not as definitive as we would like for it to be.

 

[ashai]

All of that's true...in the global world of the 20th and 21st century. But in the mind of the ancient Hebrews, different story. They presented God as they saw God...not as we see God. To the ancient Hebrews, God was God of their nation -- tied to geography, and who lived on a mountain. We don't think of God in those terms anymore. To the ancient Hebrews, keeping the bloodlines and the culture pure was important in their posture of righteousness. To us, embracing the melting-pot of society is important in our posture of righteousness.

Today's Judeo-Christian God is not presented in the terms of ancient Canaan, and rightfully so. And I think it's a gross act of misinterpretation to use these ancient stories of God's wrath against people to justify the stance that God is small, that God hates some, that God wreaks or creates evil, or condones evil in any way.

Ushta Sojourner

Aw come on! Are you then saying that Yahweh only exists in the mind of 12th century BC Jews. Its a hell of a lot more plausible to posit that whoever Moses and the other early Hebrew writers of the Tanakh were, they were the products of a time in history where genocide was common practice. To the credit of the Jews many did not butcher the cananites but actually befriended them The religious zealots though wanted blood and they wrote it into the Bible whoever wrote this passages is really no better than Bin Ladin

But to associate this with god? If then you are saying that Yahweh was created in their image , I rather said, knowing that god is one, that the theology of religious fanatics turned god into a homicidal maniac when S/He/It is none of the sort. They used god's name to spill innocent blood

To say that todays god is not represened that way is an understatement , but then you are acknowledging that the Abrahamic god is a god made by the culture? I am sure you are not but I am just pointing the flaw in your argument:help:

Ushta te
ashai