Did jesus carry the movement or did the movement carry jesus

[fallingblood]

He didn't reject followers. He wanted them to obey him. He liked his position as God incarnate.

I don't see why he would willingly kill himself over it though. Maybe he was just that crazy...or non-existent.

Actually, he did. He rejected both Samaritans, and Gentiles. He told his disciples to go to just the Jews. So there is definitely some rejection there.

As for being God incarnate, Jesus really doesn't support that position. It is highly unlikely he believed it.

 

[Desert Snake]

Actually, he did. He rejected both Samaritans, and Gentiles. He told his disciples to go to just the Jews. So there is definitely some rejection there.

As for being God incarnate, Jesus really doesn't support that position. It is highly unlikely he believed it.

In which case "the movement" is a totally inacurate term.

 

[Penumbra]

When jesus was alive he was just another nobody.

not one scribe mentions him, and dime store prophets were on every corner.

the pharisees and romans had no fear of anything magical or divine as he died quickly when their barbaric judgement was handed down.

jesus story gained popularity after death as the movement away from judaism progressed.

so I think it poses a good question. Did the movement carry jesus and make him into the superstar of the last 2000 years????

I lean that way allot more then the other

I'm not really sure.

Scholars that study this for a living don't seem to have a strong consensus about what really happened, so I don't think I have much to add to it unless I spend a decade or so focusing my attention on the history of this.

Jesus didn't get any significant written attention in his day. Paul's letters, which are among the earliest texts in the collection of the New Testament, don't show much knowledge about his life. The gospels were written over a period several decades after his death. So I don't really know if he was purely a character rather than a man, or whether he was a man that influenced a movement, or whether he was a man that existed within a fairly established movement (a lot of his ideas have Essene and Zoroastrian influences), or what. I assume at least some of the stories were based on the oral traditions of a real person, but I'm not sure.

 

[fallingblood]

In which case "the movement" is a totally inacurate term.

Not really. Because it was a Jewish movement to begin with. Later it incorporated a Gentile mission within that movement.

 

[Desert Snake]

Not really. Because it was a Jewish movement to begin with. Later it incorporated a Gentile mission within that movement.

So what you're getting at is that the movement was a 'progression'... in which case Jesus would have "carried" the movement in the sense that He started it.

 

[*Deleted*]

(quote)
jesus story gained popularity after death as the movement away from judaism progressed.

It doesn't appear that Jesus carried any movement, although, by the stories written about him, the parables recorded by others---Jesus was attempting to cause reform within his own faith. Not start a new faith.

It seems that scholarship points to the movement (after Jesus' death) to be carried on by Jews. Huge intra-Jewish debate over the direction of Judaism after the fall of the 2nd Temple and the Jewish-Roman war (66 AD)--which way would Judaism go? The way of Jesus or the way of the developing Rabbinical tradition?

Jews were protected from having to give homage to the Roman gods/goddesses, but they weren't as protected when they began to embrace Jesus along with Gentiles who began embracing him also (a la Paul's efforts)---at that point rabbinic Judaism was safe in terms of persecution in the Roman empire (for faith reasons) but those who followed Jesus were at risk and became increasingly so.

I credit the "movement", the success of Christianity to the Roman Empire itself---to Constantine who (I think) used it for political means to try to hold the empire together---one emperor, one empire, one god.