Did jesus carry the movement or did the movement carry jesus

[outhouse]

When jesus was alive he was just another nobody.

not one scribe mentions him, and dime store prophets were on every corner.


the pharisees and romans had no fear of anything magical or divine as he died quickly when their barbaric judgement was handed down.


jesus story gained popularity after death as the movement away from judaism progressed.

so I think it poses a good question. Did the movement carry jesus and make him into the superstar of the last 2000 years????

I lean that way allot more then the other

 

[Gjallarhorn]

I honestly believe he was carried to his fate, albeit of his own will. He could have rejected their elevating him. He liked it.

 

[outhouse]

I guess the movement carried jesus from mortal man to a deity

the footprints in the sand was theologies

 

[Badran]

***Mod post***

Thread moved to Religious Debates.​

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

The Jesus movement has been the most sucessful and long lived religion ever.
With in a single generation it had reached the whole of the known world.
I suspect there is a lot going for it.



Certainly more than a few ancient dime store odd balls could manage.

 

[outhouse]

The Jesus movement has been the most sucessful and long lived religion ever.

I agree

With in a single generation it had reached the whole of the known world.

I will say that in only reached the levant the first generation at best

I suspect there is a lot going for it.

2 billion followers would agree.



doesnt really answer the question as to whom carried who though

 

[Poisonshady313]

I agree

I hope you'll excuse me for continuing on a point that didn't do much to answer your question...

But there are a whole bunch of religions which are more "long lived" than "the Jesus movement", including but not limited to

Judaism
Hinduism
Buddhism
Zoroastrianism


To call it "the most... long lived religion ever." isn't right.

 

[outhouse]

I hope you'll excuse me for continuing on a point that didn't do much to answer your question...

But there are a whole bunch of religions which are more "long lived" than "the Jesus movement", including but not limited to

Judaism
Hinduism
Buddhism
Zoroastrianism


To call it "the most... long lived religion ever." isn't right.

I understand about the ages.

christians have the 2 billion members the others do not, that qualify it for being sucessful

good catch on the ages

 

[Kilgore Trout]

Assuming he actually existed, there's no way he could come close to living up to the claims and hype attributed to him by the stories written and rewritten about him in the following decades and centuries. If the stories are based on real individual, it's doubtful the stories we know today are at all an accurate account or representation of that individual.

 

[outhouse]

Assuming he actually existed, there's no way he could come close to living up to the claims and hype attributed to him by the stories written and rewritten about him in the following decades and centuries. If the stories are based on real individual, it's doubtful the stories we know today are at all an accurate account or representation of that individual.

Im under that impression as well.

 

[Poisonshady313]

good catch on the ages

Thanks.

christians have the 2 billion members the others do not, that qualify it for being sucessful

Indeed. My only hope is that certain other posters will be a bit more careful in how they toss around the word "and".

 

[fallingblood]

When jesus was alive he was just another nobody.

not one scribe mentions him, and dime store prophets were on every corner.


the pharisees and romans had no fear of anything magical or divine as he died quickly when their barbaric judgement was handed down.


jesus story gained popularity after death as the movement away from judaism progressed.

so I think it poses a good question. Did the movement carry jesus and make him into the superstar of the last 2000 years????

I lean that way allot more then the other

The difference between Jesus and the various other religious leaders of his time was his followers. Jesus, in my opinion, got lucky. He eventually ended up attracting followers who were more educated, and thus could write about the movement.

Another thing that it had going for it was that some of the followers attracted Gentiles as well. This was a very good move as many Gentiles admired Judaism; however, thought their idea of circumcision was barbaric and some of their laws unnecessary. The Jesus movement solved this for them. It was Judaism without the problems that some people saw.

The fact that Christianity survived the destruction of the Temple and the first Jewish revolt, was really nothing sort of a miracle. At that time, we see various forms of Judaism crumble. Rabbinic Judaism emerged, and that was by some luck. Christianity, which was focusing so much on the second coming, survived also by luck. Really, their followers were stubborn.

So really, Jesus created a movement that was attractive. It attracted some educated followers, and some very stubborn followers. Like any other movement, it evolved, and by luck, it survived.

To answer your question then, Jesus carried the movement to begin with, and then by luck, the movement eventually carried Jesus, which is only natural.

 

[Warren Clark]

I honestly believe he was carried to his fate, albeit of his own will. He could have rejected their elevating him. He liked it.

How did he like it if he was dead?
Christianity didn't exist until many years after he died. So how would he be able to reject it?

 

[Warren Clark]

Jesus was dead before the indocterination of Christianity was ever a movement.

So it definitely carried him.

 

[Gjallarhorn]

How did he like it if he was dead?
Christianity didn't exist until many years after he died. So how would he be able to reject it?

He didn't reject followers. He wanted them to obey him. He liked his position as God incarnate.

I don't see why he would willingly kill himself over it though. Maybe he was just that crazy...or non-existent.

 

[outhouse]

The difference between Jesus and the various other religious leaders of his time was his followers. Jesus, in my opinion, got lucky. He eventually ended up attracting followers who were more educated, and thus could write about the movement.

Another thing that it had going for it was that some of the followers attracted Gentiles as well. This was a very good move as many Gentiles admired Judaism; however, thought their idea of circumcision was barbaric and some of their laws unnecessary. The Jesus movement solved this for them. It was Judaism without the problems that some people saw.

The fact that Christianity survived the destruction of the Temple and the first Jewish revolt, was really nothing sort of a miracle. At that time, we see various forms of Judaism crumble. Rabbinic Judaism emerged, and that was by some luck. Christianity, which was focusing so much on the second coming, survived also by luck. Really, their followers were stubborn.

So really, Jesus created a movement that was attractive. It attracted some educated followers, and some very stubborn followers. Like any other movement, it evolved, and by luck, it survived.

To answer your question then, Jesus carried the movement to begin with, and then by luck, the movement eventually carried Jesus, which is only natural.

Thank you for the detailed response, The first hundred years is tougher to learn about then later.

I dont think the movement jesus carried is even close to what we have today. I think he got the ball rolling and the movement created and carried jesus.

 

[outhouse]

He didn't reject followers. He wanted them to obey him. He liked his position as God incarnate.

I don't see why he would willingly kill himself over it though. Maybe he was just that crazy...or non-existent.

im not sure the god incarnate is historically accurate allthough it may be biblically

 

[outhouse]

Jesus was dead before the indocterination of Christianity was ever a movement.

So it definitely carried him.

I would have to agree


because historical jesus is not biblical jesus

 

[waitasec]

great thread outhouse...

 

[fallingblood]

Thank you for the detailed response, The first hundred years is tougher to learn about then later.

I dont think the movement jesus carried is even close to what we have today. I think he got the ball rolling and the movement created and carried jesus.

That would be quite accurate.