Did God create evil?

[John Martin]

Dear Sir,
My search so far for the cause of evil brought the following observations. Do not take them as definite or absolute but only tentative because there is always scope to discover new aspects.
God is absolute Good which means God does not have an opposite called Evil. In the book of genesis we read that everything that God created was God. When God created human beings he said 'very good'. If God is absolute good and God did not create evil, then from where does evil come? We need to distinguish moral evil from natural evil. For example in nature there is killing and being killed. Some birds, animals and insects live on killing. That is their nature and they are not aware that it is evil to do so.
Moral evil applies to human beings who are given the gift of self -consciousness. So what is the source of moral evil?
Relative good and relative evil are like two side of the same coin. Where there is relative good there will be relative evil. When we speak of evil we are speaking of relative evil but not Absolute Evil which does not exist.
I suggest the following for the cause of relative evil:
1. Relative evil comes from the ignorance of our true nature as the image and likeness of God or our oneness with God.
2. Relative evil belongs to the evolutionary process of human consciousness in its journey from the unconscious goodness to consciousness goodness. The light of divine consciousness is present in everyone. But people are not aware. There arises a desire to be conscious of this divine light-to become like God. Human beings project the object of their desire outside. With this desire begins the evolution of human consciousness. Human consciousness becomes fragmented- which in the book of Genesis is shown as a serpent crawling on the ground. In Hinduism this is called samsara- being seduced by the mohini, illusion.
3. Relative evil comes when we consider relative truth as the absolute truth. It is Identification with religions, with nationalities, ethnic groups and linguistic groups. This is the source of religious wars, political wars and ethnic wars. This is also connected to ignorance. People kill others for the sake of their religion, nationality and race and also are willing to die for the sake of them. The earth is divided into so many continents and countries. There are boundaries to protect and countries spend lot of money for the army. A person who has gone above the earth sees that there is only one earth. National divisions are artificial and man-made. People die or kill for man -made divisions. Relative truths see evil in those who are outside of it. Relative truths always have an enemy.
4. Relative evil comes from the psychological abuse and emotional wounds that people receive. People who are abused may abuse others.
5. Relative evil also can come from longing for love and attention. For example if a person is hungry and cannot earn, this person may become a beggar and also may become a criminal. In the same way people who starve emotionally and do not receive sufficient love and affection, may indulge in criminal behavior. Through their criminal behavior they are also longing for love and affection. This is the evil that comes from the longing of love and attention.
6. The deep longing of the human heart is love and ultimately divine love. We come from God and we have to return to God. All are longing for the love for God. In this process of discovering divine love evil also manifests. But this evil is not absolute but relative. God is absolute Good. There is no Absolute Evil. Evil belongs to the evolutionary process of human beings and with the discovery of oneness with God it comes to an end. In the beginning there is Absolute Goodness and at the end there will be Absolute Goodness. Relative evil has a beginning and an end. It is not created by God but it is a necessary by product of human evolution towards God. When we look into the heart of person whom we consider evil we discover that that person longing for love or God.
In the book of Genesis God told human beings not to eat the fruit of the knowledge of good and evil. It is the knowledge of relative good and relative evil. Since Adam and Eve were in the unconscious state and they need to become conscious, eating the forbidden fruit becomes inevitable. It is only by knowing relative good and evil they will come back to the Absolute Good. They will return to the Garden of Eden again.
Serpent holding its tail is the symbol of unconscious unitary consciousness or unconscious absolute good; serpent crawling on ground is the symbol of the knowledge and relative good and evil. It is coming out of the Garden of Eden. The serpent raising its hood is the symbol of conscious unitary consciousness or conscious absolute good.We cannot go directly from the serpent holding its tail to the serpent raising its hood. We have to go through the serpent crawling on the ground. Relative good and evil are the door from the unconscious absolute good to conscious absolute good.

 

[johnhanks]

Dear Sir,
My search so far for the cause of evil brought the following observations. Do not take them as definite or absolute but only tentative because there is always scope to discover new aspects.
God is absolute Good which means God does not have an opposite called Evil. In the book of genesis we read that everything that God created was God. When God created human beings he said 'very good'. If God is absolute good and God did not create evil, then from where does evil come? We need to distinguish moral evil from natural evil. For example in nature there is killing and being killed. Some birds, animals and insects live on killing. That is their nature and they are not aware that it is evil to do so.
Moral evil applies to human beings who are given the gift of self -consciousness. So what is the source of moral evil?
Relative good and relative evil are like two side of the same coin. Where there is relative good there will be relative evil. When we speak of evil we are speaking of relative evil but not Absolute Evil which does not exist.
I suggest the following for the cause of relative evil:
1. Relative evil comes from the ignorance of our true nature as the image and likeness of God or our oneness with God.
2. Relative evil belongs to the evolutionary process of human consciousness in its journey from the unconscious goodness to consciousness goodness. The light of divine consciousness is present in everyone. But people are not aware. There arises a desire to be conscious of this divine light-to become like God. Human beings project the object of their desire outside. With this desire begins the evolution of human consciousness. Human consciousness becomes fragmented- which in the book of Genesis is shown as a serpent crawling on the ground. In Hinduism this is called samsara- being seduced by the mohini, illusion.
3. Relative evil comes when we consider relative truth as the absolute truth. It is Identification with religions, with nationalities, ethnic groups and linguistic groups. This is the source of religious wars, political wars and ethnic wars. This is also connected to ignorance. People kill others for the sake of their religion, nationality and race and also are willing to die for the sake of them. The earth is divided into so many continents and countries. There are boundaries to protect and countries spend lot of money for the army. A person who has gone above the earth sees that there is only one earth. National divisions are artificial and man-made. People die or kill for man -made divisions. Relative truths see evil in those who are outside of it. Relative truths always have an enemy.
4. Relative evil comes from the psychological abuse and emotional wounds that people receive. People who are abused may abuse others.
5. Relative evil also can come from longing for love and attention. For example if a person is hungry and cannot earn, this person may become a beggar and also may become a criminal. In the same way people who starve emotionally and do not receive sufficient love and affection, may indulge in criminal behavior. Through their criminal behavior they are also longing for love and affection. This is the evil that comes from the longing of love and attention.
6. The deep longing of the human heart is love and ultimately divine love. We come from God and we have to return to God. All are longing for the love for God. In this process of discovering divine love evil also manifests. But this evil is not absolute but relative. God is absolute Good. There is no Absolute Evil. Evil belongs to the evolutionary process of human beings and with the discovery of oneness with God it comes to an end. In the beginning there is Absolute Goodness and at the end there will be Absolute Goodness. Relative evil has a beginning and an end. It is not created by God but it is a necessary by product of human evolution towards God. When we look into the heart of person whom we consider evil we discover that that person longing for love or God.
In the book of Genesis God told human beings not to eat the fruit of the knowledge of good and evil. It is the knowledge of relative good and relative evil. Since Adam and Eve were in the unconscious state and they need to become conscious, eating the forbidden fruit becomes inevitable. It is only by knowing relative good and evil they will come back to the Absolute Good. They will return to the Garden of Eden again.
Serpent holding its tail is the symbol of unconscious unitary consciousness or unconscious absolute good; serpent crawling on ground is the symbol of the knowledge and relative good and evil. It is coming out of the Garden of Eden. The serpent raising its hood is the symbol of conscious unitary consciousness or conscious absolute good.We cannot go directly from the serpent holding its tail to the serpent raising its hood. We have to go through the serpent crawling on the ground. Relative good and evil are the door from the unconscious absolute good to conscious absolute good.

Alternatively, evil is a word we use to describe behaviour we most strongly disapprove of.

There is virtue, sometimes, in parsimony.

 

[John Martin]

Thank you sir.

 

[Ouroboros]

When I look at it, good and evil are really abstract.

Yup. (And of course I agree with the other things you said too.)

We can imagine situations that are very difficult to resolve. For instance, is torture evil? I don't support torture personally, but if torture was necessary to reach a greater good, does it make it good too? There are plenty of movies playing on this kind of conundrum, where a character has to decide to do something vile or evil for the purpose of saving his or her life, or even cause something greater to come about. (Movies that just popped into my head, V for Vendetta, Fight Club, etc.) In the end, a lot of our judgment is relative and based on context, specifics, and so on.

Imagine we know that person A killed person B, without hesitation and deliberately. Our first reaction is, shame on A!

Well, B happened to be a dictator. Well, good on A to kill evil B!

No, B was a good dictator, and did the best for his people. Oh, then evil A killing B then!

But A killed B because B was burglarizing A's house, and A thought he was in danger. Hmm... A was justified to some degree to do it. So maybe not a pat on the back, but no judgment on A.

Unfortunately, the truth is...

The devil (or should I say the evil?) is in the details...

 

[Hufflechuff]

God is absolute Good which means God does not have an opposite called Evil.

That is a whole bunch of assumptions in one sentence. First, God most likely does not exist. Even if he does, there is no reason to assume he is absolute good. Even if he were, why assume there is not "an opposite called Evil"?

You rightly say that

Where there is relative good there will be relative evil.

Good and evil are relative, subjective, as JohnHanks says it is subject to whether we disapprove or not. Consider the philosophical Trolley Problem. How then can there ever be absolute good? What would absolute good look like in practice?

 

[Mercy Not Sacrifice]

...I wouldn't know since the Almighty I believe in isn't an elf but you're entitled to believe in whatever you want; just like I'm entitled.

But then the Almighty Elf will judge you someday for your lack of belief. You should repent while there is still time.

 

[John Martin]

Since God, the ultimate reality, is absolute Good, we live with infinite hope because evil which is relative will one day come to an end. If there is no absolute Good then we live in a hopeless world. Jesus Christ described God like the Sun which is giving light to both the righteous(relative good) and the unrighteous(relative evil). He invited people to go beyond relative good and relative evil and discover the kingdom of God which is absolute good. 'Unless your righteousness transcends that of the scribes and pharisees( relative good) you cannot enter into the kingdom of God'.

 

[Tranquil Servant]

But then the Almighty Elf will judge you someday for your lack of belief. You should repent while there is still time.

Maybe if I say it in Spanish you will understand; yo no creo en un "elf" todo poderoso. A lo mejor usted si pero yo no.

 

[Pappillion001]

Dear Sir,
My search so far for the cause of evil brought the following observations. Do not take them as definite or absolute but only tentative because there is always scope to discover new aspects.
God is absolute Good which means God does not have an opposite called Evil. In the book of genesis we read that everything that God created was God. When God created human beings he said 'very good'. If God is absolute good and God did not create evil, then from where does evil come? We need to distinguish moral evil from natural evil. For example in nature there is killing and being killed. Some birds, animals and insects live on killing. That is their nature and they are not aware that it is evil to do so.
Moral evil applies to human beings who are given the gift of self -consciousness. So what is the source of moral evil?
Relative good and relative evil are like two side of the same coin. Where there is relative good there will be relative evil. When we speak of evil we are speaking of relative evil but not Absolute Evil which does not exist.
I suggest the following for the cause of relative evil:
1. Relative evil comes from the ignorance of our true nature as the image and likeness of God or our oneness with God.
2. Relative evil belongs to the evolutionary process of human consciousness in its journey from the unconscious goodness to consciousness goodness. The light of divine consciousness is present in everyone. But people are not aware. There arises a desire to be conscious of this divine light-to become like God. Human beings project the object of their desire outside. With this desire begins the evolution of human consciousness. Human consciousness becomes fragmented- which in the book of Genesis is shown as a serpent crawling on the ground. In Hinduism this is called samsara- being seduced by the mohini, illusion.
3. Relative evil comes when we consider relative truth as the absolute truth. It is Identification with religions, with nationalities, ethnic groups and linguistic groups. This is the source of religious wars, political wars and ethnic wars. This is also connected to ignorance. People kill others for the sake of their religion, nationality and race and also are willing to die for the sake of them. The earth is divided into so many continents and countries. There are boundaries to protect and countries spend lot of money for the army. A person who has gone above the earth sees that there is only one earth. National divisions are artificial and man-made. People die or kill for man -made divisions. Relative truths see evil in those who are outside of it. Relative truths always have an enemy.
4. Relative evil comes from the psychological abuse and emotional wounds that people receive. People who are abused may abuse others.
5. Relative evil also can come from longing for love and attention. For example if a person is hungry and cannot earn, this person may become a beggar and also may become a criminal. In the same way people who starve emotionally and do not receive sufficient love and affection, may indulge in criminal behavior. Through their criminal behavior they are also longing for love and affection. This is the evil that comes from the longing of love and attention.
6. The deep longing of the human heart is love and ultimately divine love. We come from God and we have to return to God. All are longing for the love for God. In this process of discovering divine love evil also manifests. But this evil is not absolute but relative. God is absolute Good. There is no Absolute Evil. Evil belongs to the evolutionary process of human beings and with the discovery of oneness with God it comes to an end. In the beginning there is Absolute Goodness and at the end there will be Absolute Goodness. Relative evil has a beginning and an end. It is not created by God but it is a necessary by product of human evolution towards God. When we look into the heart of person whom we consider evil we discover that that person longing for love or God.
In the book of Genesis God told human beings not to eat the fruit of the knowledge of good and evil. It is the knowledge of relative good and relative evil. Since Adam and Eve were in the unconscious state and they need to become conscious, eating the forbidden fruit becomes inevitable. It is only by knowing relative good and evil they will come back to the Absolute Good. They will return to the Garden of Eden again.
Serpent holding its tail is the symbol of unconscious unitary consciousness or unconscious absolute good; serpent crawling on ground is the symbol of the knowledge and relative good and evil. It is coming out of the Garden of Eden. The serpent raising its hood is the symbol of conscious unitary consciousness or conscious absolute good.We cannot go directly from the serpent holding its tail to the serpent raising its hood. We have to go through the serpent crawling on the ground. Relative good and evil are the door from the unconscious absolute good to conscious absolute good.

It is an interesting take, but the Bible will not support this. Well I should say my interpretation of the Bible would not be consistent with what you have described.

Evil (sin) existed at least around creation and most likely before. But if as you describe it is a by product of human evolution and necessary for our development then it is from God. It is not some dark void that was intentionally made to make us suffer but a component of humanity designed by God for his purpose. It would be somewhat like saying car makers have no responsibility for the smog that cars produce

It would be unreasonable to think of God as purely good, at least how we define it. Some of his actions we simply accept no justification for. Maybe it isn't right to view him through our perceptions, but that is all we have and is supposedly from him .

 

[Ouroboros]

It would be somewhat like saying car makers have no responsibility for the smog that cars produce

But, but... they don't have a responsibility. They just made the engine and gave it a free will to decide to smog or not. It's the engines fault. By the way, smog is the absence of clean air. The manufacturers only invented clean air, and the dirty engine just took it away.

 

[John Martin]

In the Garden of Eden there were two types of trees. Tree of Life and tree of the knowledge of good and evil. Tree of life means where there is harmony between the leaves and the branches, between the branches and the trunk between the trunk and the roots. There is only one tree, one life, one truth and one way. In this oneness we experience what is absolute good.

If there is disharmony between them then relative good and relative evil come in.For example if leaves do not recognize their dependence on the branch, or the branch on the trunk or the trunk on the roots, then the wholeness of the tree is fragmented and then relative good and evil appear.
Adam and Eve ate the fruit from the tree of knowledge of good and evil. it means they have chosen the path of fragmentation. But this fragmentation is artificial, because no leaf can exist without the branch, no branch can exists with out the trunk and no trunk can exist without the roots.The division is in the mind.it is ignorance.Hence ignorance produces relative good and relative evil. Truth is that there is only absolute good.
Living in the absolute good in practice means realizing our interconnectedness with everything and everyone and living for the welfare of all creation.

 

[Pappillion001]

Since God, the ultimate reality, is absolute Good, we live with infinite hope because evil which is relative will one day come to an end. If there is no absolute Good then we live in a hopeless world. Jesus Christ described God like the Sun which is giving light to both the righteous(relative good) and the unrighteous(relative evil). He invited people to go beyond relative good and relative evil and discover the kingdom of God which is absolute good. 'Unless your righteousness transcends that of the scribes and pharisees( relative good) you cannot enter into the kingdom of God'.

Why is life hopeless if there is only relative good?

There is no hope there only is what is. This idea that one day things will be perfect and we just need hold out is nice, but its been 6000 bible years since creation and 2,000 since Jesus. At some point one has to come to the realization that maybe we are on our own and might be better served dealing with today.

 

[Hufflechuff]

In the Garden of Eden there were two types of trees. Tree of Life and tree of the knowledge of good and evil. Tree of life means where there is harmony between the leaves and the branches, between the branches and the trunk between the trunk and the roots. There is only one tree, one life, one truth and one way. In this oneness we experience what is absolute good.

If there is disharmony between them then relative good and relative evil come in.For example if leaves do not recognize their dependence on the branch, or the branch on the trunk or the trunk on the roots, then the wholeness of the tree is fragmented and then relative good and evil appear.
Adam and Eve ate the fruit from the tree of knowledge of good and evil. it means they have chosen the path of fragmentation. But this fragmentation is artificial, because no leaf can exist without the branch, no branch can exists with out the trunk and no trunk can exist without the roots.The division is in the mind.it is ignorance.Hence ignorance produces relative good and relative evil. Truth is that there is only absolute good.
Living in the absolute good in practice means realizing our interconnectedness with everything and everyone and living for the welfare of all creation.

Sorry, this addresses the question how?? Any time you want to answer in plain English you just go for it! So let's try again. Good and bad are largely subjective. On what basis do you claim there is absolute good, without its opposite, and what would absolute good actually look like?

 

[Hufflechuff]

Why is life hopeless if there is only relative good?

Excellent question. IMO life without God/Heaven is far more meaningful. The 'life without X is meaningless' line is just brainwashing.

 

[Mercy Not Sacrifice]

Maybe if I say it in Spanish you will understand; yo no creo en un "elf" todo poderoso. A lo mejor usted si pero yo no.

Elf has commanded us all to speak English.

 

[Ouroboros]

Elf has commanded us all to speak English.

The Angelican language. It sounds like Heaven. :angel2:

 

[Tranquil Servant]

 

[Mercy Not Sacrifice]

I know I am right because Elf told me so through his perfect word, the Xang. I ask that you reconsider your doubt so that you are not thrown into the fire after you die.

 

[Sha'irullah]

I have never understood why the Muslims and Christians accept god as entirely benign when it is stated that he created Satan, the evil creation. So scripturally god cannot be benign whatsoever.
This leads to a confused line to distinguish good and evil which is why I do not accept either. God almighty creates and that is it. He does not create good and evil because they are entirely subjective but instead he creates things because of their right to exist. Good and evil is something we as humans created and conceived. It is a guiding source of deeds and we have the right to preserve its existence but to condemn others for their ignorance of it is also very hypocritical since our concepts differ.
This of course only creates confusion and I do not have the answers for it.
God without a doubt creates no evil and creates no good, he just creates.

 

[Tranquil Servant]

I know I am right because Elf told me so through his perfect word, the Xang. I ask that you reconsider your doubt so that you are not thrown into the fire after you die.

OK! mock Doc. :tuna: