Dharmic music and the Western Ear

[Gaura Priya]

When you were brought up in a Dharmic religion, or converted, how did you acquiesce yourself towards Eastern religious music style?

I could have posted this in the Comparative Religions forum, but I ask here, simply because Dharmic religions have historically associated sound (shabda, vani) with inherently divine power and presence. By invoking the power of melody, notes, and sacred language, the vibrations of such music are understood to purify the spiritual aspirant.

The idea of music being inherently spiritual art in organised religions are not necessarily found in Abrahamic religions so easily. While Muslims, Christians and Jews will chant their Scriptures in their respective liturgical languages, Sanskrit and Classical Punjabi are seen as inherently sacred languages in regards to spiritual music or recitation, especially in the Hindu and Sikh tradition.

The second reason why I ask is because such music is quite different, and sometimes considerably exotic, foreign, or even annoying to the Western ear.

Whether it be Hindu bhajans and kirtans (religious songs) or reciting Sanskrit, or the Sikh singing Gurbani about Sri Shabad Guru, or Buddhists reciting sutras in Pali or Japano-Sanskrit or Sino-Sanskrit, the spiritual devotee will listen and sing with bliss, while people who do not come from these backgrounds will find such music and recitations repetitive and foreign.

 

[Treks]

Sat Sri Akaal / Namaste ji

how did you acquiesce yourself towards Eastern religious music style?

Yes, it was a bit of a challenge at first, but my Gurdwara generally plays 'modern' Sikh kirtan which is quite melodious, and there are now many western Sikh artists (like Snatam Kaur), or Punjabi-heritage Sikh kirtaneeaan who play 'modern' style.

The really traditional music still sounds a bit strange to me. It's easier when you recognise the words and have some idea what they're singing about. If you can identify with the lyric the song is easier to listen to.

Also, the more you listen to a particular style, the more it grows on you.

 

[Jainarayan]

When you were brought up in a Dharmic religion, or converted, how did you acquiesce yourself towards Eastern religious music style?

From the time I was a teenager I was enamored of eastern music, religious or otherwise, regardless of the ethnicity, though my two favorites are Hindustani (religious or secular) and Buddhist chants.

 

[Secret Chief]

I suppose it all hangs around how broad a palette one exposes oneself to. A narrow, localised experience would mean musics from further afield will tend to sound strange and possibly unpleasant; especially other forms that utlise differing systems.

 

[Gaura Priya]

From the time I was a teenager I was enamored of eastern music, religious or otherwise, regardless of the ethnicity, though my two favorites are Hindustani (religious or secular) and Buddhist chants.

That is really cool!

I grew up around Sikhs in my locality in my elementary school and high school years, so my first exposure to Eastern music was through bhangra no and Gurbani yes!

I remember playing some Gurbani music in my room in high school, only to have my mother shouting in the hallway, "TURN THAT MUSIC OFF!!!"

:flirt:

Nowadays I only listen to religious Vaishnava music from various styles and regional variations. I especially love South Indian style these days!

 

[Jainarayan]

only to have my mother shouting in the hallway, "TURN THAT MUSIC OFF!!!"

Heh, and it was my father who used to grumble and bellyache when I'd play something Indian. So I'd play it all the more.

 

[Gaura Priya]

Sat Sri Akaal / Namaste ji



Yes, it was a bit of a challenge at first, but my Gurdwara generally plays 'modern' Sikh kirtan which is quite melodious, and there are now many western Sikh artists (like Snatam Kaur), or Punjabi-heritage Sikh kirtaneeaan who play 'modern' style.

The really traditional music still sounds a bit strange to me. It's easier when you recognise the words and have some idea what they're singing about. If you can identify with the lyric the song is easier to listen to.

Also, the more you listen to a particular style, the more it grows on you.

Haribol!

Yeah, it sometimes takes time to accustom one's ear to a new type of music. I suppose that if you listen to Gurbani more and more, you'll find it uplifting and spiritually soothing to the soul! :angel2:

I myself am trying to learn some religious songs in the Hindu tradition by heart, by taking one that I like each day and just singing it! Hopefully eventually I will be able to absorb the meaning, melody and words of each kirtana.

 

[Gaura Priya]

I suppose it all hangs around how broad a palette one exposes oneself to. A narrow, localised experience would mean musics from further afield will tend to sound strange and possibly unpleasant; especially other forms that utlise differing systems.

You are so right!!

 

[Riverwolf]

When you were brought up in a Dharmic religion, or converted, how did you acquiesce yourself towards Eastern religious music style?
...

The second reason why I ask is because such music is quite different, and sometimes considerably exotic, foreign, or even annoying to the Western ear.

While I was practicing, I had no particular fondness for Indian-style music, to be honest. It was certainly not annoying (most of the time), but it just didn't sing to me. Though, I also, to be perfectly honest, found the Sama Veda chanting to be almost unbearable except for one variation which had some ambiance in the background and the voices were all much more... unified. Too bad it was only portions of the hymns rather than all of them.

However, that's not to say I have trouble with all Eastern-style music. Japanese and Chinese music speak to me very well (and by Japanese, I'm talking about actual Japanese traditional music, not J-pop.) But I was exposed to those two, particularly Japanese, at a semi-early age. You speak of Japano-Sanskrit; I've never heard of that and am very much curious as to what that's like.

Then again, that's not to say the language itself is the problem. I adore the music of Krishna Das, who brought the mantras and language into a musical form more familiar to Western ears, and it's absolutely beautiful. So, I do think there is some level of "exotic/foreign-ness" to India's native musical style that, for whatever reason, just doesn't speak to me the same way some other non-Western styles of music do.

...then again, even some traditional "Western" music doesn't speak to me all the time, even from my own heritage. The heritage of my father is Greek, but the few times I've heard the traditional music of that heritage of mine, I couldn't stand it! lol That's my own bloody heritage we're talking about!

 

[Secret Chief]

Of course my partner just thinks I listen to dreadful music

.

 

[ratikala]

dear gaura priya ,

When you were brought up in a Dharmic religion, or converted, how did you acquiesce yourself towards Eastern religious music style?

briliant question ...

I think the music was what first realy drew me in , I started collecting realy traditional indian instrumental , qawwali and sufi , music before I realy understood what it was , instrumental at first because it has so much depth , and western music was so artless by comparrison .followed then by qawwali and bhajan .

I could have posted this in the Comparative Religions forum, but I ask here, simply because Dharmic religions have historically associated sound (shabda, vani) with inherently divine power and presence. By invoking the power of melody, notes, and sacred language, the vibrations of such music are understood to purify the spiritual aspirant.

well it worked , to me it elevates one onto a higher plain .

The idea of music being inherently spiritual art in organised religions are not necessarily found in Abrahamic religions so easily. While Muslims, Christians and Jews will chant their Scriptures in their respective liturgical languages, Sanskrit and Classical Punjabi are seen as inherently sacred languages in regards to spiritual music or recitation, especially in the Hindu and Sikh tradition.

I dont know ?... I do have some christian chants which are prety powerfull , although they dont mean as much to me because I dont have such an affiliation to the faith .
but still they are beautifull .

The second reason why I ask is because such music is quite different, and sometimes considerably exotic, foreign, or even annoying to the Western ear.

not to mine I felt like id come home , I will hang around in an indian grocers shop just because they are playing something so beautifull , I think that is how I got hooked there was a tape stall in the local shopping street and he would find me things that he knew I would like , then I would have to quiz him as to the meaning .

Whether it be Hindu bhajans and kirtans (religious songs) or reciting Sanskrit, or the Sikh singing Gurbani about Sri Shabad Guru, or Buddhists reciting sutras in Pali or Japano-Sanskrit or Sino-Sanskrit, the spiritual devotee will listen and sing with bliss, while people who do not come from these backgrounds will find such music and recitations repetitive and foreign.

now I understand bhajan I love bhajan to , but also I realy still love things like this

it was what I was listening to when I found your post .....[youtube]dK3K3ojiq_k[/youtube]
Ustad Bismillah Khan - Purbi Dhun - YouTube

 

[ratikala]

dear gaura priya

I think you might enjoy this one :yes:

[youtube]ouS_WjOaPYE[/youtube]
MITHE RAS SE BHARI RE RADHA RANI LAGE Rameshbhaiji Oza - YouTube

 

[Vinayaka]

When you were brought up in a Dharmic religion, or converted, how did you acquiesce yourself towards Eastern religious music style?

I remember liking it from the beginning. Like many others my age, the first encounter was with Ravi Shankar. I only had a brief period of listening to western music, (whatever that is). I hate to be redundant, but eastern music, just like eastern faith is wider, and more varied than 'western music' so what particular type of music did you have in mind? Certainly a thavil/nadeswaram combo is very different than a soothing bhajan.

 

[Gaura Priya]

While I was practicing, I had no particular fondness for Indian-style music, to be honest. It was certainly not annoying (most of the time), but it just didn't sing to me. Though, I also, to be perfectly honest, found the Sama Veda chanting to be almost unbearable except for one variation which had some ambiance in the background and the voices were all much more... unified. Too bad it was only portions of the hymns rather than all of them.

However, that's not to say I have trouble with all Eastern-style music. Japanese and Chinese music speak to me very well (and by Japanese, I'm talking about actual Japanese traditional music, not J-pop.) But I was exposed to those two, particularly Japanese, at a semi-early age. You speak of Japano-Sanskrit; I've never heard of that and am very much curious as to what that's like.

When I call those things, I'm referring to the 'Sanskrit' or 'Pali' that has been adapted to Chinese and Japanese religious settings. They are derivative Sanskrit that are both unintelligible to the respective religionists and the Sanskritists.

For example, Amitabha becomes 'A-mi-tuo-fuo' and svaha becomes 'su-po-he'. If you listen to some traditional Japanese or Chinese Buddhist Sutra recitations, or mantras (dharanis, such as the Da Bei Zhou) you can get a gist of what I'm trying to convey. The language is not Chinese or Japanese, but Sanskrit adapted to the pronunciations of the respective regions.

Here is an audio sample of Japanese Sanskrit/Pali chanting, via Nichiren Buddhism: http://www.buddhanet.net/filelib/mp3/nichiren_gong.mp3

Here also is an audio sample of Sanskrit/Pali adapted to Chinese phonology, in Pure Land Buddhism: http://www.buddhanet.net/filelib/mp3/chanting/02_-_Amitabha_Sutra.mp3

I find the Chinese chanting very melodic to me. I had a past interest and affair with Pure Land Buddhism, and chanting 'Namo Amituofo'!

That's too bad with the Indian music though, lol.

...then again, even some traditional "Western" music doesn't speak to me all the time, even from my own heritage. The heritage of my father is Greek, but the few times I've heard the traditional music of that heritage of mine, I couldn't stand it! lol That's my own bloody heritage we're talking about!

Yeah, it's okay, lol. I'm ambivalent towards my own ethnic tradition (I'm Filipina!) as well. I like some of the more Hispanicised music such as the guitars and rondalla songs, but the tribal music I can not relate to!

 

[Riverwolf]

When I call those things, I'm referring to the 'Sanskrit' or 'Pali' that has been adapted to Chinese and Japanese religious settings. They are derivative Sanskrit that are both unintelligible to the respective religionists and the Sanskritists.

For example, Amitabha becomes 'A-mi-tuo-fuo' and svaha becomes 'su-po-he'. If you listen to some traditional Japanese or Chinese Buddhist Sutra recitations, or mantras (dharanis, such as the Da Bei Zhou) you can get a gist of what I'm trying to convey. The language is not Chinese or Japanese, but Sanskrit adapted to the pronunciations of the respective regions.

Here is an audio sample of Japanese Sanskrit/Pali chanting, via Nichiren Buddhism: http://www.buddhanet.net/filelib/mp3/nichiren_gong.mp3

Here also is an audio sample of Sanskrit/Pali adapted to Chinese phonology, in Pure Land Buddhism: http://www.buddhanet.net/filelib/mp3/chanting/02_-_Amitabha_Sutra.mp3

I find the Chinese chanting very melodic to me. I had a past interest and affair with Pure Land Buddhism, and chanting 'Namo Amituofo'!

I see what you mean. Thanks for sharing.

Yeah, it's okay, lol. I'm ambivalent towards my own ethnic tradition (I'm Filipina!) as well. I like some of the more Hispanicised music such as the guitars and rondalla songs, but the tribal music I can not relate to!

Well, I absolutely LOVE the traditional Gaelo-Anglic music of my maternal heritage. ^_^

...too bad our tribal music didn't survive...

 

[Gaura Priya]

I remember liking it from the beginning. Like many others my age, the first encounter was with Ravi Shankar. I only had a brief period of listening to western music, (whatever that is). I hate to be redundant, but eastern music, just like eastern faith is wider, and more varied than 'western music' so what particular type of music did you have in mind? Certainly a thavil/nadeswaram combo is very different than a soothing bhajan.

Well, I was more generic in just really any Dharmic religious music.

Although I have to say, I do like thavil and nadeswaram in moderation! In the Gaudiya tradition that I was influenced from utilises only kartals and mridanga, and thus no melodious instruments were allowed at all.

I loved Ravi Shankar when I was younger too! I remember listening to his music in my childhood, as my musical interests in elementary age were with world music of all sorts.

I'm sure you were back in the time when he was a popular idol in the world community; my exposure to him was in a library with CD's collecting dust!

 

[Gaura Priya]

I see what you mean. Thanks for sharing.

Well, I absolutely LOVE the traditional Gaelo-Anglic music of my maternal heritage. ^_^

No problem hun! ^-^; And good for you for being proud of your ethnic heritage. Many of us are Canadians, Australians, Americans, etc. but we shan't forget our ancestors.

...too bad our tribal music didn't survive...

If you go back far enough, everyone was part of some tribe! Filipino culture is subdivided into ethno-linguistic tribal identities; I am half Ilokana (very rural) and have Ilongga (strongly Hispanicised Sino-Malay).

I think culture will always change and adapt... it is sad that we can't necessarily preserve and keep all these beautiful, variegated identities in this world, but I'd like to imagine that we will one day have a compendium of all sorts to preserve them!

 

[Gaura Priya]

I think the music was what first realy drew me in , I started collecting realy traditional indian instrumental , qawwali and sufi , music before I realy understood what it was , instrumental at first because it has so much depth , and western music was so artless by comparrison .followed then by qawwali and bhajan .

I loved Qawwali! Although I was mainly limited to Nusra Fateh Ali Khan's music. Sufi music is beautiful though; I like all the dhikr music that is available out there, and just immersing themselves in the names of Allah.

I dont know ?... I do have some christian chants which are prety powerfull , although they dont mean as much to me because I dont have such an affiliation to the faith .
but still they are beautifull .[

I do find many Christian chants beautiful.

not to mine I felt like id come home , I will hang around in an indian grocers shop just because they are playing something so beautifull , I think that is how I got hooked there was a tape stall in the local shopping street and he would find me things that he knew I would like , then I would have to quiz him as to the meaning .

That is so cute! Thank you for telling your story. :rainbow1:

 

[GURSIKH]

That is really cool!

I grew up around Sikhs in my locality in my elementary school and high school years, so my first exposure to Eastern music was through bhangra no and Gurbani yes!

Oye balle balle

I remember playing some Gurbani music in my room in high school, only to have my mother shouting in the hallway, "TURN THAT MUSIC OFF!!!"

Pure Raaga Kirtan irritates my father too ,once he packed the speakers .

here its Spring season , a shabad in Basant (spring) raag

Pehal Basantai Aagman(Classical) Bhai Nirmal Singh Khalsa - YouTube why m unsucessful in embedding video ?

 

[Aisling]

Hmm.. didn't occur to me. The only musical tune that's in my prayers are the bell and damaru... and occasionally the melodious chants, that is if I'm in a Lama Chopa prayers, or else nothing much.

But I used to listen to the chinese version of Avalokiteshvara praise and the Heart sutra. Sounds good to me lol.