Denomination, why?

[Diederick]

Hi there. If you know me, you'll know that I am not a religious person - far from it - but I am interested in religious and theistic matters. Now, as you read the title of this thread, I'm curious as to why people feel the need to congregate into groups to share a religious experience. (I'm an individualist.)

I'm not looking for what denomination you have, there are plenty of threads where you can blabber all about that. I want to know what motivates you, to be not just agnostic or Deistic, since you obviously believe in a God or Gods; but that you uphold a religion. So mainly this thread is about the separation of believing in the supernatural (Gods, nature, etc.) and joining a group to give it a form.

I see some negatives and positives in this. Positive would be that it is undoubtedly good to share spiritual experiences, it's a very important social happening for many people and it must be good for the economy in some way. However, with spirituality, as from what I've learned on this forum, is mainly a personal thing. The most reasonable people, when in discussion, return to their most basic belief that there must be something out there looking after us. So why conform to dogma, laws and other religious constructs; when it is all man-made and couldn't possibly all fit you personally. It is anti-individualistic and I would even dare to say that it has the potential to limit your spiritual experience with all the cultural voodoo that comes with assuming a religion.

So why religion, and not just personal spirituality? Why no individuality and resort to group-hug culture for spirituality? Why are we so desperate to share spirituality?

​

(Any religions that don't fit the above excluded, of course. I'm always being corrected on my generalizations...)

 

[zenzero]

Friend Diederick,

So why religion, and not just personal spirituality? Why no individuality and resort to group-hug culture for spirituality? Why are we so desperate to share spirituality?

This life have been on an individualized PATH. There will be others am sure.
However the final analysis of even individuals approaching through a grop is actually alone cause the PATH is meditation and there the outsides helps in creating an environment which a group helps in creating a buddha field or energy field conducive for meditation.
Besides time is ripe when slowly religion will be individualized or custom built.

Kindly discuss your WAY / PATH??

Love & rgds

 

[Breathe]

Religion is generally a communal thing. Churches, mosques, gurdwaras, Bahá'í places of worship, synagogues etc usually are places of community gatherings in addition to places of prayer and worship.

They are places where people can chat with, and be in the company of like-minded people, as well as places where one can be in the presence of their God/guru/sage/etc. You don't have to agree on everything, after all.

Personally, being a religious/spiritual loner is very unappealing to me.

 

[cardero]

So why religion, and not just personal spirituality? Why no individuality and resort to group-hug culture for spirituality? Why are we so desperate to share spirituality?

There is no money in personal spirituality.

 

[Diederick]

Okay, that's religion, but what about spirituality. Why does it seem like it requires religion, or any other form of congregation?

My path? I'm an Existential Nihilist. I don't really have a path, but pretend I do. It's a placebo, a secular one that is. I uphold the thought that I live as an individual to aid in the altogether beauty of diversity in this world, and strive to support others as much as I can. The latter is because before I am an individual, I am part of the human race. My life is insignificant and I am unlikely to achieve greatness high enough to be remembered after my death; so I focus on giving mankind a nudge in the right direction, feeling more affinity with mankind than life at small. By nature the Existentialist is a loner, but I guess we could congregate to meet up with "like-minded people".

 

[zenzero]

Friend cardero,

There is no money in personal spirituality.

Yes, read the lines posted

time is ripe when slowly religion will be individualized or custom built.

Love & rgds

 

[Nothing]

A very good question Diederick. The only reason I can think of is that people believe they need to define themselves. Why do they need to define themselves? Perhaps they believe by defining themselves they will be significant, they will matter. Perhaps they believe they will find a sence of belonging within a specific religion. Since I am on a mission to "undefine" myself, I can think of many reason why people separate themselves into different denominations. Because of my perspective, however, I cannot think of one single good one.

 

[Breathe]

Okay, that's religion, but what about spirituality. Why does it seem like it requires religion, or any other form of congregation?

What is the difference between religion and spirituality? It's something that many debate.

However, for many people, it all boils down to a sense of belonging and community.

By nature the Existentialist is a loner, but I guess we could congregate to meet up with "like-minded people".

You could indeed. Then you have to question why you're doing it though.

 

[Diederick]

You could indeed. Then you have to question why you're doing it though.

To keep going. An Existentialist is really a Nihilist pretending to be something else. And Nihilism is very depressing, at least on me. So it's really a kind of placebo anti-depressant - while also being a great motivation to do good. It works for the purpose it has, I don't need it to be any more than that.

I gain enough social interaction in all-day life, without religion.

 

[Breathe]

I gain enough social interaction in all-day life, without religion.

Religious community =/= Substitute for social interaction

 

[Smoke]

People like to congregate. They like to connect and they like to belong. That's why we have clubs and dinner parties. It's why we go to ball games even though it's cheaper and more comfortable to watch sports on tv. It's why we drink in bars even though we can drink at home for a fraction of the cost.

Of course, religious leaders sometimes encourage us to congregate for more venal and vainglorious reasons.

 

[Smoke]

Religious community =/= Substitute for social interaction

For many religious people, religious community IS their social interaction. My mother is a true believer, but she doesn't go to church to connect with god. She's got a direct connection, or thinks she does. She goes to church to see her friends.

 

[Breathe]

But that's probably not the be all and end all of her social life, is it?

 

[cardero]

A very good question Diederick. The only reason I can think of is that people believe they need to define themselves. Why do they need to define themselves? Perhaps they believe by defining themselves they will be significant, they will matter. Perhaps they believe they will find a sence of belonging within a specific religion. Since I am on a mission to "undefine" myself, I can think of many reason why people separate themselves into different denominations. Because of my perspective, however, I cannot think of one single good one.

People like to congregate. They like to connect and they like to belong. That's why we have clubs and dinner parties. It's why we go to ball games even though it's cheaper and more comfortable to watch sports on tv. It's why we drink in bars even though we can drink at home for a fraction of the cost.

Of course, religious leaders sometimes encourage us to congregate for more venal and vainglorious reasons.

What? Being Patrick isn't good enough for them?

 

[Evee]

For many religious people, religious community IS their social interaction. My mother is a true believer, but she doesn't go to church to connect with god. She's got a direct connection, or thinks she does. She goes to church to see her friends.

This tallies with what I've learned about Chrisitanity. Churches aren't so much to get you TO G-d (RC may be an exception), but they're a place for fellowship. Christianity is big on the idea of fellowship through the Holy Spirit, "brothers and sisters in Christ" and hanging out with other people who are full of the Spirit. I can't find a specific passage, but I think I remember it being stated explicitly somewhere in the NT that fellowship is a good thing.

As for Judaism, there are some things that have to be done in groups. Some prayers require ten men (Reform split off because it counts women, too) to be said properly. And there are some things that just need a community. I mean, not everybody can butcher their own kosher meat or circumsize their kid. Strict religious observance is a whole lot easier with division of labour.

 

[sojourner]

For the Christian, spirituality is wrapped up in community. If we are to follow Jesus, then we are to cultivate loving relationships. Furthermore, we are to congeal into and become the Body of Christ. Several times the ekklesia is referenced as Christ's Body on earth. These two reasons are valid theological reasons for congregating into recognizable communities.

 

[.lava]

Hi there.

So why religion, and not just personal spirituality? Why no individuality and resort to group-hug culture for spirituality? Why are we so desperate to share spirituality?

​

(Any religions that don't fit the above excluded, of course. I'm always being corrected on my generalizations...)

hi sorry for deleting picture. (i like the pic)

those experiences are very personal if you ask me. even if group of people some how go through an experience side by side, each would get something private, something only meant for him.





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[sojourner]

So why religion, and not just personal spirituality? Why no individuality and resort to group-hug culture for spirituality? Why are we so desperate to share spirituality?

Well, it isn't really "group-hug culture." It goes much, much deeper than that. It points toward the fact that we are all deeply connected, and the walls of distinction we build are false. Good religion helps to set us free of those walls. It's more than affirmation, it's identity. God has to be shared, because God's paradigm is sharing. God shares Spirit with us, and that's what causes us to be living beings. Since we all have our being in God, we all share a commonality in that God. Therefore, the community is sacramental -- an outward and visible sign of a spiritual and unseen reality.

 

[Kilgore Trout]

So why religion, and not just personal spirituality? Why no individuality and resort to group-hug culture for spirituality? Why are we so desperate to share spirituality?

How the heck are most people supposed to form an identity if they don't have a group of people to tell them what to think and how to behave?

 

[sojourner]

How the heck are most people supposed to form an identity if they don't have a group of people to tell them what to think and how to behave?

My religion doesn't tell me what to think or how to behave. We're responsible for our own minds and our own behavior.