Denial by non-Muslims of the Qur'an's commands to commit violence.

[Dimi95]

I think I might have misunderstood your explanation and this comment. Wink.
I asked for clarification of your sword. And you gave me a Miracle 19 example, and you comparing opposites. Which is what you had previously said against me as shown in the two statements.

Here:

And here:




After you said my pattern is false you showed me an example of Miracle 19 saying its what i do.


So I didnt understand why you used Miracle 19 in your reply of me asking for you to clarify your sword.




It seemed like mocking me rather than answer with clarifying your sword. But maybe you were trying to see from a different point of view which made you sound like what you had previously said against me. You sounded like what you think of me, as comparing opposites, and a false pattern.

But you mentioned crazy staff - not me.
You had your source.

Here

And that is why I can hear something when Muhammad says crazy stuff like this:

Allah is the Light of the heavens and the earth. The Parable of His Light is as if there were a Niche and within it a Lamp: the Lamp enclosed in Glass: the glass as it were a brilliant star: Lit from a blessed Tree, an Olive, neither of the east nor of the west, whose oil is well-nigh luminous, though fire scarce touched it: Light upon Light! Allah doth guide whom He will to His Light: Allah doth set forth Parables for men: and Allah doth know all things.

I am used to this, i spent most of my life with Muslims , and i know how it works.

So yes , i showed you how YOU play.

 

[WonderingWorrier]

I am used to this, i spent most of my life with Muslims , and i know how it works.

So yes , i showed you how YOU play.

You think you know how it works. So you play according to how you think.

I heard what you think here:

this is typical Muslim behaviour - claiming ".........................." and failing to understand why

You think muslims are wrong. But you cant explain why they are wrong, because you cant explain why you are right.

Talking around answers is an art that some are very good at. It can even sound just like an answer but if you listen carefully they are not saying anything at all. What they are projecting is "I know something that you don't know". People will never understand what is said because it doesnt actually say anything. Thats the trick to keep people listening. People can then think they understand and agree to what is being said, because of the vague wording that is open to interpretation.

There is something that I learned from the multi choice reading and comprehension tests classing me as being above average for a fully grown adult when I was just a child. It showed me that understanding what someone says is a rare thing. Everyone who reads the tests would think they understand what is being said. The tests showed me misunderstanding is more common than understanding.

You only think that you are hearing everything correctly because you are interpreting whatever is said into a way that you can understand.

When you are aware of misunderstanding, you can listen more carefully to consider other possible interpretations and select the most likely to respond to. Also when you are aware of that you could speak multiple things at once to see what path the listener takes in their response.

I am not here to play games with you. I am trying to have a serious conversation with specific details.

 

[Dimi95]

You think you know how it works. So you play according to how you think.

I heard what you think here:


You think muslims are wrong. But you cant explain why they are wrong, because you cant explain why you are right.

Talking around answers is an art that some are very good at. It can even sound just like an answer but if you listen carefully they are not saying anything at all. What they are projecting is "I know something that you don't know". People will never understand what is said because it doesnt actually say anything. Thats the trick to keep people listening. People can then think they understand and agree to what is being said, because of the vague wording that is open to interpretation.

There is something that I learned from the multi choice reading and comprehension tests classing me as being above average for a fully grown adult when I was just a child. It showed me that understanding what someone says is a rare thing. Everyone who reads the tests would think they understand what is being said. The tests showed me misunderstanding is more common than understanding.

You only think that you are hearing everything correctly because you are interpreting whatever is said into a way that you can understand.

When you are aware of misunderstanding, you can listen more carefully to consider other possible interpretations and select the most likely to respond to. Also when you are aware of that you could speak multiple things at once to see what path the listener takes in their response.

I am not here to play games with you. I am trying to have a serious conversation with specific details.

Ok , give me your final statement and i will look at it , and then we will talk.
What do you want to tell me.

 

[WonderingWorrier]

Ok , give me your final statement and i will look at it , and then we will talk.
What do you want to tell me.

This word pattern is the only reason I believe the words of the Bible and the Quran are true. If I didnt notice this specific pattern I would side with Atheists regarding the Bible and the Quran.

I have also followed this pattern into other religions (some have it, and some dont). I have followed it into myths and legends. A mythical creature can be a representation of a single position which has certain different animals sharing it. The position itself has multiple animals so the position can be explained as being part this animal, and part that animal (as long as the different parts line up according to the pattern).

It was looking into childrens fairytales that made me stop and destroy all of my research. I thought there could possibly be a good reason for the mystery that I am unaware of and perhaps the pattern shouldnt be spoken about. It could be an individual thing to possibly discover. But the hatred, violence and war that has been learned from the Bible bothers me. Because I think there is no violence, as it is just part of the pattern.

I dont want to try to talk about it. I just feel its the right thing to do rather than staying quiet about it. I could be wrong.

To show the non-violence I can discuss the sign language that speaks words into the pattern of twelve positions.

 

[Dimi95]

This word pattern is the only reason I believe the words of the Bible and the Quran are true. If I didnt notice this specific pattern I would side with Atheists regarding the Bible and the Quran.

I have also followed this pattern into other religions (some have it, and some dont). I have followed it into myths and legends. A mythical creature can be a representation of a single position which has certain different animals sharing it. The position itself has multiple animals so the position can be explained as being part this animal, and part that animal (as long as the different parts line up according to the pattern).

It was looking into childrens fairytales that made me stop and destroy all of my research. I thought there could possibly be a good reason for the mystery that I am unaware of and perhaps the pattern shouldnt be spoken about. It could be an individual thing to possibly discover. But the hatred, violence and war that has been learned from the Bible bothers me. Because I think there is no violence, as it is just part of the pattern.

I dont want to try to talk about it. I just feel its the right thing to do rather than staying quiet about it. I could be wrong.

To show the non-violence I can discuss the sign language that speaks words into the pattern of twelve positions.

We go threw strange roads in life.
The reason i am so consistent on answering because i feel that i am in the same position.

I am very good to find specific reasons of something so komplex.I am better then 99 % of people in pattern.I was tested , i know what i am speaking of.
I understand you very well , and i agree with you that violence was there , but there is a big difference on how people inspire themselfs from Books.Some people can not overcome evil and it's just like that.
Jesus alone is the proof that God exists , you don't need anything else.
His Crucifixion and Ressurection is the central historical event, there is no event discussed like the one of Jesus Christ.
I am just very sorry that is so hard to see that.You don't understand Christian Faith, and that is the best answer i can give you.It is not easy to belive like Christians belive.But i say to everyone who i speak to , whenever you have a need , whenever you find yourself in a bad situation where life is in matter , then never forget that you can always ask in the name of Jesus Christ.He who seeks , will find - never forget that.But to walk to the End is very hard.
If you wan't to know how to start to not be emotionally involved , start by questioning God's decisions in the Old Testament and write everything down
"if he did that,why did he did this" - question how you like it , but don't mix it with the Quran.
But try to remember that God said that he created man in his image,or you will never understand it so you can never judge it.
All the prophets sinned untill Jesus came - all of them , if you wan't we can discuss them by order , i am ready to go to every one of them.The teachings of Jesus are sprecial and unique.
Jessus would never passed orthodoxy today , in the way he teached.He was asked 183 questions directly or indirectly and he answered only three of them.His was consistent on the laibillity and goodness of God.That was his ONLY consistent apsolute.This is a fact , not assumption!

How would you describe the ressurection?
Ok , let's leave the Gospels , how would you explain that 500 people saw him after he was dead?
Or they were crazy and delusional or they really saw him, there is no other option.
He fullfiels everything he said.

The best answer i can give for the Quran is that Muhhamad was decieved.
It has to do with the appereance of angel Gabriel first , because it's very different from how he appeared in the Bible , he used force on him.Different kind of force, and different reaction.. Angel Gabriel of the Bible is different - very different.
Then the "Satanic Verses" , and the 8 year time gap between revelations and everything around it.
Then how Muhhamad died , how his wife(the most beloved) described his death.Those words are there and nobody can change them..
Then how succesors and everything about it , then the compelling of the Quran.
Muhhamad didn't have ANY influence in the compelling of the Quran , burning evidence is cowardless act, and can't be justified.Why not to save it , would be the question.
How can i find different truth if there is no clear path for me?
His companions saw between themselfs that prayers were different , but Muhhamad told them they were the same.
I can go on , and go on and we will get to a point where it will be just too much.

Muslims are very stong inside the religion , but very weak outside.
Do you know that Christians and Jews are described as dirty people?
I don't like when someone judges the Book by it's cover so i don't have any reason to belive in anything that is written in the Quran.

And this is not from Christian perspective , this is from neutral perspective.

The only thing that i would agree on those books is that they were devine revelations.There is no way that Muhhamad could've made that Book - given the circumstances.
Whoever did it , his greatest mistake is that he oposed Jesus claims.

It's very sad to point a finger at someone who was crucified because he was answering what he was asked..
You should not be ashamed by what i said , i don't want you to think that i will put you in that position , because i don't think like that.
Why did he answer with "I am".?
Why Jesus chose those exact words?
He was acused of blasphemy,that's why he was crucified , and he sacrificed his life for that cause.
And God didn't stop that , why ?

On the other hand "Allah" made some linguistic mistakes in Surah 3:18
God testifies that there is no deity except Himself ,and so do the angels and persons possesing knowledge.Maintaining deity , there is no deity except Him, The Powerfull , The Wise.

I have bolded so you can see the mistake,simple mistake.

So , you are so sure about your Pattern, let's say it's true.

Surah 24:35
"God(Allah) is the Light Of the heavens and the earth. The parable of His Light Is as if there were a Niche And within it a Lamp : The Lamp enclosed in Glass : The glass as it were A brilliant star : Lit from a blessed Tree, An Olive, neither of the East Nor of the West, Whose Oil is well-nigh Luminou, Though fire scarce touched it : Light upon Light ! God doth guide Whom He will To His Light : God doth set forth Parables For men : and God Doth know all things."

Light of the world : John 8:22

Brilliant Star :
As the well-known story in the Gospel of Matthew goes, the Star of Bethlehem guided three Magi, or wise men, to Jerusalem some 2,000 years ago. And after consulting with King Herod of Judea, the men found newborn baby Jesus in the little town of Bethlehem.The Star of Bethlehem, mentioned in St. Matthew's Gospel, is one of the main symbols associated with Jesus' birth, embodying the light of hope of salvation in the midst of darkness.

Do you know the myth about Ahura Mazda?
-Many historians and biblical scholars believe, “While originally polytheists, under Persian influence the magi became Zoroastrians, one of the first monotheistic religions.”
“Zoroastrians believe there is one God called Ahura Mazda (Wise Lord) and He created the world.” The Magi also studied the stars and were familiar with many different ancient prophecies.

So while the Magi didn’t believe in the same God as the Hebrews, they were familiar with the idea of a monotheistic religion and may be why they were eager to adopt the new religion of Christianity. According to various traditions, the Magi returned to the East and were eventually baptized by Saint Thomas the Apostle and are still regarded by some churches as Christian saints."

You can look at the myth , it's very interesting..

So here is where i stand
Luminou means giving off light; bright or shining.

Olive tree:
Romans 11:22-24
"Consider therefore the kindness and sternness of God: sternness to those who fell, but kindness to you, provided that you continue in his kindness. Otherwise, you also will be cut off. And if they do not persist in unbelief, they will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again. After all, if you were cut out of an olive tree that is wild by nature, and contrary to nature were grafted into a cultivated olive tree, how much more readily will these, the natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree!"

So Olive tree , Neither west , neither Nord , but in the Sky(heavens) - The Bright Morning Star.

Jesus in Revelation 22:16 claimed :
“I, Jesus, have sent Mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the Root and the Offspring of David, and the Bright and Morning Star.”
(Remember the last bolded)

Fire :
Luke 12:49-50
"Jesus said to his disciples: 'I have come to bring fire to the earth, and how I wish it were blazing already! There is a baptism I must still receive, and how great is my distress till it is over!

And there you have it, Light upon Light , God doth he choses whom he shows the Light

So i know what i am talking about when i am talking about the sword

Isaiah 2
"He will judge between the nations, and will decide concerning many peoples; and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruning hooks. Nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more."

-The ploughshare (Hebrew: אֵת 'êṯ, also translated coulter) is often used to symbolize creative tools that benefit humankind, as opposed to destructive tools of war, symbolized by the sword (Hebrew: חֶרֶב ḥereḇ), a similar sharp metal tool with an arguably opposite.

-Pruning hooks are usually used to cut branches down from trees

So yes , i belive that nation should not take a sword against nation.

A prophecy against Arabia:
Isaiah 21:13-17
"You caravans of Dedanites,
who camp in the thickets of Arabia,bring water for the thirsty;
you who live in Tema,bring food for the fugitives.They flee from the sword, from the drawn sword,from the bent bow and from the heat of battle.
This is what the Lord says to me: “Within one year, as a servant bound by contract would count it, all the splendor of Kedar will come to an end.The survivors of the archers, the warriors of Kedar, will be few.” The Lord, the God of Israel, has spoken.*

Did Cain killed Abel justly?
Abel offered the firstborn of his flock and he was killed for that,from his brother's hand.Because he offered better them him.
God never asked for any offering in that situation , in fact he gave the Garden to Adam so he could work it and live by his work.To eat what he has earned and worked by himself.

And the first was condemned to be the first to sin. Why do i say this ?
Because of this:
James 1:13-15
"When tempted, no one should say, “God is tempting me.” For God cannot be tempted by evil, nor does he tempt anyone; but each person is tempted when they are dragged away by their own evil desire and enticed.Then, after desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and sin, when it is full-grown, gives birth to death.

There are 351 peophecies from Genesis 3:15 to Malachi 4:6 that Jesus fullfills.

So yes i see a reason in what i belive!

 

[WonderingWorrier]

So Olive tree , Neither west , neither Nord , but in the Sky(heavens) - The Bright Morning Star.

Jesus in Revelation 22:16 claimed :
“I, Jesus, have sent Mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the Root and the Offspring of David, and the Bright and Morning Star.”
(Remember the last bolded)

Correct. The morning star is the son of God.

When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy? Job.

Bread - Oil - Wine
Corn - Olive - Grape
Moon - Star - Sun

Because the children are as the olive oil trees:

Thy wife shall be as a fruitful vine by the sides of thine house: thy children like olive plants round about thy table. Psalm.


And with wife being as the grape vine, you can see here in the pattern the sheep is in the same place:

Bread - Oil - Wine
Corn - Olive - Grape
Moon - Star - Sun
Cattle - Goat - Sheep

Therefore I think "the marriage of the lamb" that is specifically mentioned in Revelation is in fact a correct term, and not just some crazy made up nonsense.

So I believe Jesus is the Son of God. But I only believe it, because I can see it.

 

[Dimi95]

Correct. The morning star is the son of God.

When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy? Job.

Bread - Oil - Wine
Corn - Olive - Grape
Moon - Star - Sun

Because the children are as the olive oil trees:

Thy wife shall be as a fruitful vine by the sides of thine house: thy children like olive plants round about thy table. Psalm.


And with wife being as the grape vine, you can see here in the pattern the sheep is in the same place:

Bread - Oil - Wine
Corn - Olive - Grape
Moon - Star - Sun
Cattle - Goat - Sheep

Therefore I think "the marriage of the lamb" that is specifically mentioned in Revelation is in fact a correct term, and not just some crazy made up nonsense.

So I believe Jesus is the Son of God. But I only believe it, because I can see it.

If you belive that Jesus is the Son of God , i don't know why are you quoting Quran.
There is only one God , so who is it ?

 

[WonderingWorrier]

If you belive that Jesus is the Son of God , i don't know why are you quoting Quran.
There is only one God , so who is it ?

The same God would be one God.

I can see the same pattern.

There is, in their stories, instruction for men endued with understanding. It is not a tale invented, but a confirmation of what went before it,- a detailed exposition of all things, and a guide and a mercy to any such as believe. 12:111

And when there came to them a messenger from Allah, confirming what was with them, a party of the people of the Book threw away the Book of Allah behind their backs, as if (it had been something) they did not know! 2:101

When Our Signs are rehearsed to them, they say: "We have heard this (before): if we wished, we could say (words) like these: these are nothing but tales of the ancients." 8:31

Then if they reject thee, so were rejected messengers before thee, who came with Clear Signs, Books of dark prophecies, and the Book of Enlightenment. 3:184





The Olive Oil is as the Star in the word pattern of the Bible. They share the same position. So the Quran is correctly putting them together.

Bread - Oil - Wine
Corn - Olive - Grape
Moon - Star - Sun

 

[Dimi95]

The same God would be one God.

I can see the same pattern.

There is, in their stories, instruction for men endued with understanding. It is not a tale invented, but a confirmation of what went before it,- a detailed exposition of all things, and a guide and a mercy to any such as believe. 12:111

And when there came to them a messenger from Allah, confirming what was with them, a party of the people of the Book threw away the Book of Allah behind their backs, as if (it had been something) they did not know! 2:101

When Our Signs are rehearsed to them, they say: "We have heard this (before): if we wished, we could say (words) like these: these are nothing but tales of the ancients." 8:31

Then if they reject thee, so were rejected messengers before thee, who came with Clear Signs, Books of dark prophecies, and the Book of Enlightenment. 3:184





The Olive Oil is as the Star in the word pattern of the Bible. They share the same position. So the Quran is correctly putting them together.

Bread - Oil - Wine
Corn - Olive - Grape
Moon - Star - Sun

There is only one problem.
Jesus Christ

Jesus - the Way to the Father
John 14:6-14
Thomas said to him, “Lord, we don’t know where you are going, so how can we know the way?”
Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life.No one comes to the Father except through me.If you really know me, you will know my Father as well. From now on, you do know him and have seen him.”
Philip said, “Lord, show us the Father and that will be enough for us.”
Jesus answered: “Don’t you know me, Philip, even after I have been among you such a long time? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, ‘Show us the Father’?Don’t you believe that I am in the Father, and that the Father is in me? The words I say to you I do not speak on my own authority. Rather, it is the Father, living in me, who is doing his work.Believe me when I say that I am in the Father and the Father is in me; or at least believe on the evidence of the works themselves. Very truly I tell you, whoever believes in me will do the works I have been doing, and they will do even greater things than these, because I am going to the Father. And I will do whatever you ask in my name, so that the Father may be glorified in the Son.You may ask me for anything in my name, and I will do it.

And also

John 10:18
"No one takes it from me, but I lay it down of my own accord. I have authority to lay it down and authority to take it up again. This command I received from my Father."

If you try to understand circumstences then you will understand that this sayings are higgest form of blasphemy in that time.

So he answers perfectly every oposite.

John 5:31-47
"If I testify about myself, my testimony is not true.There is another who testifies in my favor, and I know that his testimony about me is true.
You have sent to John and he has testified to the truth.Not that I accept human testimony; but I mention it that you may be saved.John was a lamp that burned and gave light, and you chose for a time to enjoy his light.
I have testimony weightier than that of John. For the works that the Father has given me to finish—the very works that I am doing—testify that the Father has sent me.And the Father who sent me has himself testified concerning me. You have never heard his voice nor seen his form,nor does his word dwell in you, for you do not believe the one he sent.You study the Scriptures diligently because you think that in them you have eternal life. These are the very Scriptures that testify about me, yet you refuse to come to me to have life.
I do not accept glory from human beings,but I know you. I know that you do not have the love of God in your hearts.I have come in my Father’s name, and you do not accept me; but if someone else comes in his own name, you will accept him.How can you believe since you accept glory from one another but do not seek the glory that comes from the only God?
But do not think I will accuse you before the Father. Your accuser is Moses, on whom your hopes are set.If you believed Moses, you would believe me, for he wrote about me.But since you do not believe what he wrote, how are you going to believe what I say?”

And this is how the Gospel of John starts
John 1:1-17
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.He was with God in the beginning. Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made.In him was life, and that life was the light of all mankind.The light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcome it.
There was a man sent from God whose name was John.He came as a witness to testify concerning that light, so that through him all might believe.He himself was not the light; he came only as a witness to the light.
The true light that gives light to everyone was coming into the world.He was in the world, and though the world was made through him, the world did not recognize him.He came to that which was his own, but his own did not receive him.Yet to all who did receive him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God— children born not of natural descent, nor of human decision or a husband’s will, but born of God.
The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the one and only Son, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.
(John testified concerning him. He cried out, saying, “This is the one I spoke about when I said, ‘He who comes after me has surpassed me because he was before me.’”)Out of his fullness we have all received grace in place of grace already given.For the law was given through Moses; grace and truth came through Jesus Christ.No one has ever seen God, but the one and only Son, who is himself God and is in closest relationship with the Father, has made him known.

So sons of God is now the only Son of God.

Sorry again but,

1 Corinthians 14:22
"Tongues, then, are a sign, not for believers but for unbelievers; prophecy, however, is not for unbelievers but for believers."

One thing also , Stars differ..

1 Corinthians 15:35-49
"But someone will ask, “How are the dead raised? With what kind of body do they come?” You foolish person! What you sow does not come to life unless it dies.And what you sow is not the body that is to be, but a bare kernel, perhaps of wheat or of some other grain.But God gives it a body as he has chosen, and to each kind of seed its own body.For not all flesh is the same, but there is one kind for humans, another for animals, another for birds, and another for fish.There are heavenly bodies and earthly bodies, but the glory of the heavenly is of one kind, and the glory of the earthly is of another. There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars; for star differs from star in glory.
So is it with the resurrection of the dead. What is sown is perishable; what is raised is imperishable.It is sown in dishonor; it is raised in glory. It is sown in weakness; it is raised in power.It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body. Thus it is written, “The first man Adam became a living being”;the last Adam became a life-giving spirit.But it is not the spiritual that is first but the natural, and then the spiritual.The first man was from the earth, a man of dust; the second man is from heaven.As was the man of dust, so also are those who are of the dust, and as is the man of heaven, so also are those who are of heaven.Just as we have borne the image of the man of dust, we shall also bear the image of the man of heaven. "

The Bible doesn't need the Quran to be true.

I have a question:
Why Torah and Psalms? Why specifically these?
Why everything else is dismissed?

 

[WonderingWorrier]

There is only one problem.
Jesus Christ

If Jesus saying he is the Son of God is misunderstood then that would be a problem.

So sons of God is now the only Son of God.

So you do know of the term "Sons" of God.

One thing also , Stars differ..

Correct the Stars are different. The moon is one, the sun is another one, but the stars are as many.

The Bible doesn't need the Quran to be true.

To hear one messenger correctly is to be able to hear them all, hence having a clear way to identify who is a messenger and who isnt.

Muslims that dont know the difference between a true messenger and false messenger are equal to unbelievers.

As the Quran says:

"Those who deny Allah and His messengers, and (those who) wish to separate Allah from His messengers, saying: "We believe in some but reject others": And (those who) wish to take a course midway,-

They are in truth (equally) unbelievers; and we have prepared for unbelievers a humiliating punishment.

To those who believe in Allah and His messengers and make no distinction between any of the messengers, we shall soon give their (due) rewards: for Allah is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful". 4:150-152



So if a muslim cant identify who is a true messenger outside of the Quran, then they dont really understand/believe the message of the Quran.

Being able to recognise the other messengers, is being able to recognise the truth of the Quran.

To know the messengers, is to know the message.

 

[Dimi95]

If Jesus saying he is the Son of God is misunderstood then that would be a problem.


So you do know of the term "Sons" of God.



Correct the Stars are different. The moon is one, the sun is another one, but the stars are as many.


To hear one messenger correctly is to be able to hear them all, hence having a clear way to identify who is a messenger and who isnt.

Muslims that dont know the difference between a true messenger and false messenger are equal to unbelievers.

As the Quran says:

"Those who deny Allah and His messengers, and (those who) wish to separate Allah from His messengers, saying: "We believe in some but reject others": And (those who) wish to take a course midway,-

They are in truth (equally) unbelievers; and we have prepared for unbelievers a humiliating punishment.

To those who believe in Allah and His messengers and make no distinction between any of the messengers, we shall soon give their (due) rewards: for Allah is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful". 4:150-152



So if a muslim cant identify who is a true messenger outside of the Quran, then they dont really understand/believe the message of the Quran.

Being able to recognise the other messengers, is being able to recognise the truth of the Quran.

To know the messengers, is to know the message.

Matthew 7:15
"Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves."

and

Quran 64:44
"And if Muhammad had made up about us some [false] sayings, we would have cut from him the aorta". Is this true or Mohammed can get away if he isn't a true prophet?"

and

Sahih al-Bukhari 4428
Book 64, Hadith 450
"The Prophet in his ailment in which he died, used to say, "O `Aisha! I still feel the pain caused by the food I ate at Khaibar, and at this time, I feel as if my aorta is being cut from that poison."

I used to think that the Jewish woman is the reason , but then i i tought , why would God let him suffer?
So , yes i have a good reason to belive that Muhhamad was deceived and i don't belive the Quran.

Someone took the liberty to make one Book and burn all the evidence and play with the Book without any clarification.
And we have seen the effect threw history.

So yes i would agree with you:
Muslims that dont know the difference between a true messenger and false messenger are equal to unbelievers.

 

[Dimi95]

@WonderingWorrier
And Gaza attacking Israel is the thing we need to face wright now
That's an act of war

98 % of Palestinians are Sunni Muslims, so this is the pattern you were looking for.
I said to you once , we will be faced in life with unexpected events.

This is what the Quran has developed threw Islam.This is the sword that you were looking for.

This is the oil , olive and star you were saying here.

This is when you say that the Quran correctly puts them together.

Threw our discussion you have dismissed many of my sayings and ignored most of them.

First , your mistake is that you used the Quran as evidence against the Bible.

You are consistent on kontext , you don't understand that pattern is beyond one perspective in these kind of Books witch tells me that you haven't studied enough,so you haven't backed your claim.
You failed to back the authencity of that Book from different perspective's beside kontext.

So your pattern is still described as : "not proven."

You fail to understand

Since 2005 Gaza didn't find a way to forme a society , rather the focus of Gaza is war against Israel.And they have played victim for a long time , but at the end everyone takes out their masks.
People are been taken as hostages!

I am not interested in who is right and wrong , because people die in war , regardless what side.

Quran producces Islam , and Islam fails to built bridges with others.

 

[muhammad_isa]

I am not interested in who is right and wrong..

Well, if both sides were interested, the conflict might not be as bad.

Quran producces Islam , and Islam fails to built bridges with others.

Islam is a religion / belief.
It is people who need to "build bridges".

Muslims and Jews have a common ancestor .. Abraham AS.
It's a "family affair".

 

[Link]

Quran producces Islam , and Islam fails to built bridges with others.

Quran is what is going to give victory for Palestinians if they persevere. God teaches in the Quran, not to beg oppressors, but to fight back. This is true. That peace makes sense but with certain terms.

America has been an oppressor. Israel created for colonialism enforcement.

Palestinians are oppressed. Politics, is what to me, in the world confirms Quran is correct about disbelievers (in general) deserving hell-fire. Palestine is proof of this.

The world is evil for having not supported. Only Iran and Syria stood with it.

Palestinians are oppressed and doing what they must.

Also, Quran shows few believers can defeat disbelievers 10 to 100 ratio in dire times. And 100 to 200 times in non-dire times. And there was in the past, even less odds.

I believe if believers rely on God and persevere they will win. This is why Iran has never backed off even with all the threats from Israel and US to attack it.

And Iran now has the means to win. It will be a long war, but they can win. And if China chimes in now, it will be their chance too if US and Israel go to war with Iran. China should take advantage and probably will.

 

[Link]

You tried to bully the whole world. Threaten Russia, enforce your image onto other cultures, etc, it was sheer arrogance by the west, weaponize the dollar. Now their empire is falling.

While you still have time, you should advocate to lose peacefully. I'm serious. Back off from Russia, give China the Islands peacefully and let them unite China and not support the separatists.

US and Nato are too arrogant though. It's like Aticun Skywalker, when told by Ob1 that it's over, he lost, Ob1 has the higher ground.

People who care about your nation in US are telling you this. But no one will listen. You guys are ego driven and not reality driven.

 

[Dimi95]

Well, if both sides were interested, the conflict might not be as bad.

I see the bad upfront , people dying.
everything else is just justifying war

Islam is a religion / belief.
It is people who need to "build bridges".

Exactly

Muslims and Jews have a common ancestor .. Abraham AS.
It's a "family affair".

By that you mean it's between us?
Yes , Isaac and Ishmahel.
But Jesus comes from the line of Isaac so i am also in the family tree.

 

[Dimi95]

Quran is what is going to give victory for Palestinians if they persevere. God teaches in the Quran, not to beg oppressors, but to fight back. This is true. That peace makes sense but with certain terms.

America has been an oppressor. Israel created for colonialism enforcement.

Palestinians are oppressed. Politics, is what to me, in the world confirms Quran is correct about disbelievers (in general) deserving hell-fire. Palestine is proof of this.

The world is evil for having not supported. Only Iran and Syria stood with it.

Palestinians are oppressed and doing what they must.

Also, Quran shows few believers can defeat disbelievers 10 to 100 ratio in dire times. And 100 to 200 times in non-dire times. And there was in the past, even less odds.

I believe if believers rely on God and persevere they will win. This is why Iran has never backed off even with all the threats from Israel and US to attack it.

And Iran now has the means to win. It will be a long war, but they can win. And if China chimes in now, it will be their chance too if US and Israel go to war with Iran. China should take advantage and probably will.

You have explained the outcome , Interesring..
I am not good with assumptions in wars , sorry
But good to know

I think that you are not well informed on politic to say such things.

China will never go against America , as America would not against China

They will always babble in the Media , but no land is ready for a war like that , no one is ready to take such risks.
We will all die if that starts.
You fail to understand that

I see now oppurtunities for other countries to interfere , on both sides.
If Israel is not attacked from all sides , The West will not interfere with action.

You lose , because you fired first.

I have studied revolution and i am very good in that field , this has nothing in common with that , this is ACT OF WAR.

 

[Link]

I hope Hezbollah does attack. If US wants to get involved, it's their grave. And you really think China won't take islands back?

 

[Link]

this is ACT OF WAR.

Yeah, whatever that means. It is. But so is the many times Israelis attacked Palestinians and annexed their lands.

 

[Dimi95]

Yeah, whatever that means. It is. But so is the many times Israelis attacked Palestinians and annexed their lands.

I don't justify Israel's actions.
I am against the politic of Israel.

No , far from that , but it doesn't change the fact.
Gaza atacked and Israel responded.
And people died regardless from where , Palestine or Israel.

Palestine will suffer from this war , sadly..