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Deism - A Way To Progress

DrM

Member
DISCLAIMER: First, my purpose for Deistic threads is to acquaint people with a variation on religion which goes back centuries. If you believe in God, you are already a Deist. Some Deists choose to remain in their present system of beliefs with a new dimension added to their faith. Deism should add reason to your belief. If your present beliefs aren't reasonable, then maybe this is a place for you. There are many people who, for whatever reason, have problems believing many of the stories in the bible, have problems with dogma and rituals yet have a sincere belief in God. In the following, I use reason and logic to explain more about Deism which to some may be brutally honest..
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Revealed religions can be deadly and anti-progressive. They hold people and society back with foolish superstition and ridiculous dogmas. Deism, on the other hand, offers people a way to free themselves from these negatives and replace them with a firm reliance on their God-given reason.

There are millions of people around the world who are bound by the shackles of pretended revelations. When they blow somebody up, or demolish someone's home, or vote for a political/religious charlatan who gives tax dollars and troops that can only reinforce the cycle of ignorance and violence, they sincerely believe they are doing God's will. The majority of this misconception is grounded in the Bible, for the Jews wrote the Old Testament out of which sprang both Christianity and Islam.

By making people aware of Deism I hope I am doing much to break this seemingly unending cycle of death and destruction. When someone honestly looks at Deism, based on many people I've spoken to and emails I've received, they're relieved and happy. They no longer feel guilty for their doubts about the claims made by their revealed religion. They no longer have to fight their God-given reason in order to believe the nonsense pushed on them by their religious leaders and their traditional family religion. They are truly free at last!

It's obvious that when someone takes Deism into their heart and mind, they will no longer be a victim of "revelations," revelations that tell them such unreasonable things as God wants them to kill their children, or it's ok for them to drink poison and to be bitten by poisonous snakes, etc. Deism drives the individual on to such progress that these foolish ideas, commands, and claims will never again be taken seriously by the new Deist.

The next logical step is for Deism to help society itself progress. When enough individuals become Deists, society will be transformed. This will not only end the careers of the faith-healers, it will, to a very large extent, be the end of the politicians. Because a population of majority Deists won't accept the lies and half-truths of the political careerists, the politicians will be replaced by leaders. Instead of accepting things on faith, the people will want, and demand, real answers.

By working together we will bring Deism to the people, it will become a household word in America and throughout the world! Already Deism has grown 717% from 1990 - 2000 in the US! As Thomas Paine wrote, "We have it in our power, to begin the world anew . . ."
 

Jayhawker Soule

-- untitled --
Premium Member
Congratulations! You managed to write 6 paragraphs regarding Deism without (a) defining it, (b) justifying it, or (c) explaining what it has do do with "Biblical Debates" - not bad! :D

OK - a couple of questions then:
  1. Why should one choose deism over philosophical naturalism or agnosticism?
  2. Is deism a teleological world view?
  3. What (if anything) distinguishes the deist from the proponenta of 'Intelligent Design'?
 

Sunstone

De Diablo Del Fora
Premium Member
DrM said:
The next logical step is for Deism to help society itself progress. When enough individuals become Deists, society will be transformed. This will not only end the careers of the faith-healers, it will, to a very large extent, be the end of the politicians. Because a population of majority Deists won't accept the lies and half-truths of the political careerists, the politicians will be replaced by leaders. Instead of accepting things on faith, the people will want, and demand, real answers.

While I think deism is a great idea, I doubt it's likely to eliminate political careerists.
 

DrM

Member
Deut. 32.8 said:
Congratulations! You managed to write 6 paragraphs regarding Deism without (a) defining it, (b) justifying it, or (c) explaining what it has do do with "Biblical Debates" - not bad! :D

OK - a couple of questions then:
  1. Why should one choose deism over philosophical naturalism or agnosticism?
  2. Is deism a teleological world view?
  3. What (if anything) distinguishes the deist from the proponenta of 'Intelligent Design'?
With your opening statement I doubt whether any answer I could offer you would be satisfactory; not unlike the responses you have received from other members of this board. I have noticed that you have few, if any threads originated by you. (I didn't find any but then I didn't look too long.) However, what I noticed most about your rsponses to other's posts are a. argumentative in nature, b. demeaning to many and, c. you have the notion that you have been endowed with more intellect than most; which usually results in a narcissistic personality. These kinds of traits do not tend to intimidate me but I understand your intent which is to simply argue and point out what you believe to be other's shortcomings. I will keep my words to you brief in an attempt to avoid your kind of responses.

Anyway thanks for your warm welcome to me on this religious forum. You should be on the forum's welcoming committee!

1. One shouldn't. One should believe what they want to believe.
2. No.
3. Deism is more closely a proponent of progressive revelationism.
 

DrM

Member
true blood said:
DrM, Do you believe in the resurrection?
I cannot say for sure. According to the events recorded following the resurrection, something happened, this we can be sure of. The feeling and event was so shattering to His disciples that they changed the course of history and all of them died a horrible death as a result of their belief in what they were witness to. Whatever it was, it was remarkable.
 

Jayhawker Soule

-- untitled --
Premium Member
DrM said:
... all of them died a horrible death as a result of their belief in what they were witness to.
That is doubly inaccuate. There is no evidence, for example, that witnessing a resurrection had anything whatsoever to do with his reported martyrdom. Nor is there any tradition, much less evidence, of the martyrdom of John o Matthew.
 

DrM

Member
Congratulations! You managed to write 6 paragraphs regarding Deism without (a) defining it, (b) justifying it, or (c) explaining what it has do do with "Biblical Debates" - not bad! :D
I find your responses are quite biting. I am fairly sure that any answer I would offer would be more fodder for argument than debate. For example,
That is doubly inaccuate. There is no evidence, for example, that witnessing a resurrection had anything whatsoever to do with his reported martyrdom. Nor is there any tradition, much less evidence, of the martyrdom of John o Matthew.
This is my opinion based on my knowledge and study of the scriptures. This is a summation of what I believe to be accurate. The sacrifices and deaths of the disciples were so striking that apparently something happened to them in their life following the resseruction that they were willing to give up their lives. However, you insist there is no evidence. You win!

Progressive revelationism is God's unfolding knowledge of his creation down through the ages. The further we progress, the more we learn about God.
 

Sunstone

De Diablo Del Fora
Premium Member
DrM said:
Progressive revelationism is God's unfolding knowledge of his creation down through the ages. The further we progress, the more we learn about God.
Interesting concept! By "progress" do you mean to include the sciences?
 

DrM

Member
Sunstone said:
Interesting concept! By "progress" do you mean to include the sciences?
Absolutely! Also by progress I include interpretation of the scriptures, using our reason to let go of antiquated ideas such as slavery, place of women in society, homosexuality and progress socially and environmentally. . . . . . . . .actually all aspects to improve our lives in a morally responsibly way.
 

Green Gaia

Veteran Member
DrM said:
Absolutely! Also by progress I include interpretation of the scriptures, using our reason to let go of antiquated ideas such as slavery, place of women in society, homosexuality and progress socially and environmentally. . . . . . . . .actually all aspects to improve our lives in a morally responsibly way.
Just curious... why do you include homosexuality in that list? :confused:
 

DrM

Member
Maize said:
Just curious... why do you include homosexuality in that list? :confused:
I mentioned it because it continues to be a subject of much discussion from primarily the fundamental base.

Science has brought us to the place in history that studies can show that homosexuality, as hertosexuality, is an orientation, not a preference. That is, none of us choose our sexual orientation, much the same as we do not choose our hair color, eye color, etc. It isn't that we have to "approve" homosexuality (which is none of our business and it will not decay social relevance or bring about moral depravation) but we can accept it for what it is. Each generation has approximately 10% of its population homosexual. There's not much we can do about it, it just is. Condeming it because of religious "conditioning", to me, is unacceptable, based on reason.
 
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Jayhawker Soule

-- untitled --
Premium Member
DrM said:
deut. 32.8 said:
There is no evidence, for example, that witnessing a resurrection had anything whatsoever to do with his reported martyrdom. Nor is there any tradition, much less evidence, of the martyrdom of John or Matthew.
This is a summation of what I believe to be accurate. ... However, you insist there is no evidence. You win!
Thank you but, petulance aside, at issue is not what I insist, nor is it who wins. At issue is the accuracy of your assertions. You claim that "all of them died a horrible death as a result of their belief in what they were witness to." Do you have any basis whatsoever to claim that John and Matthew died such a death?

DrM said:
Progressive revelationism is God's unfolding knowledge of his creation down through the ages. The further we progress, the more we learn about God.
Really? What do you know about God's unfolding knowledge? How is this understanding of yours validated? Or is this understanding somewhat of the same nature as your understanding of early church history?
 

DrM

Member
"all of them died a horrible death as a result of their belief in what they were witness to."

Should have read, "All of them were prepared to die a horrible death as a result of their belief in what they were witness to."


Really? What do you know about God's unfolding knowledge? How is this understanding of yours validated? Or is this understanding somewhat of the same nature as your understanding of early church history?
I'll answer your question if you will answer one for me. . . . . ."Why are you a member of this forum. . . .really?" This is why I ask. You have started 19 threads, the longest of which contained 4 paragraphs. Your responses to other's comments are caustic at best. Having read your info, I am a bit surprised at your age combined with your attitude toward others here. I believe this is a good forum and wish to communicate with everyone. I assume you, as the rest of us, are members. I do not appreciate your "holier than thou" attitude you assume with everyone.

If you will not assume more civility in your responses to my posts and to my responses, you will no longer have my attention.

I mentioned your abrasive responses in another thread which you did not address. I would really like to know why you are here. Thank you for your answer. I believe in my earlier post in this thread that I wrote that YOU would not accept any answer I would provide and I was correct.


 
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