Are you an atheist or a theist? If the answer is neither, then you are as wishy-washy as I am.
Tom
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Deism 101
- Thread starter Neo Deist
- Start date
Tom
Neo Deist
Th.D. & D.Div. h.c.
To expand on deism further, we believe that God is a compassionate being, and because He is hands off, it is not He that makes us suffer in life. He does not threaten humans with eternal torment or annihilation, He does not kill children, He does not cause genocide, He does not cause sickness or disease, and He is not responsible for the actions of mad men. The cruel and unrighteous things that happen in life do so because of either free will or natural law. We don't blame God for atrocities.
What kind of god or goddess would use threats, fear and intimidation to make you believe in him or her? What kind of god or goddess would control everything, but then judge you in the afterlife for your actions that they controlled in the first place? What kind of god or goddess would sanctify slavery, rape and murder? That sounds more like a twisted, diabolical tyrant.
I mentioned prayers earlier. We do pray to God with the understanding that He won't "answer" our prayers. While that seems odd, it falls in line perfectly with the concept of free will. If I choose to drink alcohol and I wind up with cirrhosis of the liver, prayer won't help me. If my ancestors practiced incest and my gene pool is tainted with birth defects, prayer won't help me. If someone is going to rob me and shoot me dead, prayer won't help me. God does not interfere with any free will choice, good or bad, past, present or future. If He did, it would no longer be free will. So why pray? We do so to give thanks to God for life, food, shelter, family, friends, etc. We find serenity in nature.
We use our God given ability to reason through problems and challenges. We know that many (if not most) of the stories contained in the Abrahamic religions are fractual, allegorical and metaphorical. Deism reconciles religion with science. We accept that geology, physics, biology, chemistry, astronomy and others explain things that ancient man could not possibly understand. We don't have to spend a lifetime trying to defend our beliefs, tenets and dogma...only to have governing religious bodies "revise" beliefs that science and technology prove wrong or impossible.
We believe in God the creator. We see His power in nature, not only on earth but throughout the universe. Deists are not cult members. We are not evil or work against other belief systems. If anything, we keep to ourselves while respecting the rights of others. Deism, the belief in a creator that set everything in motion, goes back to the dawn of time.
What kind of god or goddess would use threats, fear and intimidation to make you believe in him or her? What kind of god or goddess would control everything, but then judge you in the afterlife for your actions that they controlled in the first place? What kind of god or goddess would sanctify slavery, rape and murder? That sounds more like a twisted, diabolical tyrant.
I mentioned prayers earlier. We do pray to God with the understanding that He won't "answer" our prayers. While that seems odd, it falls in line perfectly with the concept of free will. If I choose to drink alcohol and I wind up with cirrhosis of the liver, prayer won't help me. If my ancestors practiced incest and my gene pool is tainted with birth defects, prayer won't help me. If someone is going to rob me and shoot me dead, prayer won't help me. God does not interfere with any free will choice, good or bad, past, present or future. If He did, it would no longer be free will. So why pray? We do so to give thanks to God for life, food, shelter, family, friends, etc. We find serenity in nature.
We use our God given ability to reason through problems and challenges. We know that many (if not most) of the stories contained in the Abrahamic religions are fractual, allegorical and metaphorical. Deism reconciles religion with science. We accept that geology, physics, biology, chemistry, astronomy and others explain things that ancient man could not possibly understand. We don't have to spend a lifetime trying to defend our beliefs, tenets and dogma...only to have governing religious bodies "revise" beliefs that science and technology prove wrong or impossible.
We believe in God the creator. We see His power in nature, not only on earth but throughout the universe. Deists are not cult members. We are not evil or work against other belief systems. If anything, we keep to ourselves while respecting the rights of others. Deism, the belief in a creator that set everything in motion, goes back to the dawn of time.
M. J. Fernandes
Member
I have written some argumentation for a God who loves human beings especially found here. As a consequence, I have some follow-up text demonstrating that the human soul is immortal (but I have not published it yet.) If it is of interest to you, I can try to release it here for review.
Neo Deist
Th.D. & D.Div. h.c.
No thanks. Deists typically do not worry about the afterlife or immortality of the soul. We live morally in the here and now, and if God sees fit to extend our existence beyond death, so be it.
M. J. Fernandes
Member
Okay, but intellectually knowing about eternal life, gives intellectual justification & impetus for moral behaviour in the here and now. It also points to what is moral and what is not.
If I can extend my life by committing some immoral act, that permits moral acts in my extended life, is that moral? If there is an afterlife, we do not need to have recourse to justifying any immoral acts whatsoever.
Neo Deist
Th.D. & D.Div. h.c.
This is the Deism DIR forum, not the Convert Me to Catholicism forum.
I will respond to your post and leave it at that. Everything about your religion is man made. Every piece of dogma, every tenet, every catechism. It relies on claims of divine inspiration and ancient stories that seem to be copied from other cultures. Deism is on the opposite end of the spectrum. I mean no disrespect, but to come here and preach that stuff is not going to get you anywhere on this particular forum.
M. J. Fernandes
Member
Okay, but surely contrary arguments for disproving Deism are related to Deism. Are they not welcome here?
This is interesting however, of course, I do not agree with it. I actually have tried to develop reasonable arguments to show Catholicism to be true.
I am trying not to preach.
You still haven't responded to the following:
Neo Deist
Th.D. & D.Div. h.c.
Furthering deism, I wanted to touch on the topic of Satan, or the devil. Deists typically do not believe in Satan, the devil, demons, or any other supernatural boogieman. We do not blame evil and the world's problems on unforeseen demonic or diabolic forces that work against us. We hold the view that every person is responsible for his or her own actions, and that if someone commits an evil act, they do so with free will. Bad things happen because someone chooses to do something bad, plain and simple. What some refer to as being possessed, we call it mental illness.
ThePainefulTruth
Romantic-Cynic
Probably because there is no deist church or organized religion. Many just won't accept that deism is serious without them because they need an "authority" to tell them what to think. Another problem is all the hyphenated deisms out there now which are simply irrational, like Christian-deism, or superfluous like ceremonial-deism, all of which are swept under the rug called modern deism. The one defining deist belief is a non-intervening God. Anything else is an attempt to hijack the term.
In this life in this rational universe, there is no difference between deism and atheism. The only practical difference is whether there's a Hereafter or not. I believe that the universe was intentionally designed NOT to reveal whether there is or is not a God.
Bunyip
pro scapegoat
Deism has an afterlife? Really? What is it like?
ThePainefulTruth
Romantic-Cynic
If you really care lemme know and I'll give you my thoughts on the subject. O/W.....
Bunyip
pro scapegoat
Yes I care, I was not aware that deism had a heaven.
Do be careful to distinguish between things you personally believe and deism.
Deism is super simple. "There is something rather than nothing, therefore God". Additional beliefs are fine with me, but they are not deism. That is what makes it different from theism.
Tom
ThePainefulTruth
Romantic-Cynic
Most deists, including myself, are agnostic and don't even know if there is a God. But if there is a God who created the universe, It must've done so to spawn self-aware creatures with free will. Anything else could have been done instantly instead of taking 13 billion years to hide the knowledge of It from us. If so, it's not too much of a stretch to think there'd be an afterlife, but God hasn't told me what it's like. One thing I am sure of, there'd be no hell, just oblivion where the evil ones can mercifully withdraw from the pain of the Truth of who they were, the pain they caused and how they wasted their lives. Who'd want to listen to their screeching for all eternity? Hell is the invention of vindictive sadistic minds for the purpose of inspiring fear in the population.
On the other hand it could well be oblivion for everybody. This is it.
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If there is a God with intentions then deism is wrong.
What you are doing here is turning deism into theism. You are claiming to know what God intended and why.
I have no major attachment to the term deist. I know what it means to me and I don't care what other people think. Call yourself a deist if you want and then create a theistic religion around your faith beliefs. Its all good.
But it is not all deism.
Tom
ThePainefulTruth
Romantic-Cynic
What are you saying, God is unconscious or only has a passive awareness? A deist God didn't create the universe?
Deism has always been a form of basic theism--a belief in God. But since it's the only non-revealed belief in God, it was excluded from the others by convention. And I'm only speculating on God's possible motivation for creation IF God exists in the first place. Modern deism has made it the most bastardized philosophical term there is, mostly by intent to confuse.