Deconversion = Hostility?

[Quiddity]

It's nothing new to see someone leave Christianity or any other faith for that matter, but why does deconversion turn into hatred/hostility toward the religion and sometimes to religion in general (more specifically organized religion)?

They claim to have left a horrible, intolerant, bigoted,....(the list goes on) religion and then they turn anti-religious, anti-organized religion, anti-Christian, etc.

For someone who left such organizations they sure seem to mirror it pretty well themselves after leaving.

Why?

 

[MdmSzdWhtGuy]

I can only answer for myself Victor, but I, personally feel as if I was cheated out of many Sunday mornings I could have been fishing, Sunday nights I could have been watching football, and Wednesday nights I could have been shooting hoops with my brother. On top of that, I walked around with unnecessary guilt over not being able to live to an impossible standard, and I see the extreme harm that comes from the "us vs. them" mentality intrinsic to organized religious worship.

All in all, I, personally view religious institutions as generally harmful to the intellectual and cultural development of people, and in the South, where I live, I see them as being bigotted toward those who are not heterosexual, Biblical Literalist, Young Earther's, which I find deplorable, and disgusting.

Because I think that church tends to shut off intellectual development and tends to make people distrust, dislike, and view with disdain anyone who is not a member of that church, or at least some like minded church (remember I live in DFW where we just made national news because a local Baptist Church refuses to bury a gay Persian Gulf vet), and I find those things distasteful, then I, naturally rebel against such notions.

Other people's story's may differ, but I just watched two co-workers ranting for 15 minutes about how that "sinning sodomite" dared to want to have a funeral service "in the house of our lord" and that the "scriptures say this behavior is abhorrent" and "if the scripture says it, that is all I need, there is no thinking to be done on the subject." This is the norm, down here, and not the exception, and I find that just terrible.

B.

 

[Buttercup]

It's nothing new to see someone leave Christianity or any other faith for that matter, but why does deconversion turn into hatred/hostility toward the religion and sometimes to religion in general (more specifically organized religion)?

Speaking for myself....I have absolutely no hostility or hatred toward Christians. Disagreement yes. Do you see disagreement as hostility?

 

[Quiddity]

Speaking for myself....I have absolutely no hostility or hatred toward Christians. Disagreement yes. Do you see disagreement as hostility?

Nope...I've been part of this forum long enough to spot the difference.

 

[Wandered Off]

Deconversion is disorienting. Everything we previously held sacred is suddenly no longer sacred. This is especially true for those coming from religions that make heavy use of guilt and/or threats. I went through a period of bitter resentment - which still occasionally rises to the surface, though less frequently now. Many of us felt betrayed into believing what we later perceived as misguidance, having wasted much emotional energy and precious time in a race the wrong direction.

It's not unlike the child who goes along with his or her parents' dreams for the future but then rebels upon realizing that those don't fit. There is often a resentment built up.

Although it's not universally true, I think you will find it usually more intense for those relatively recently deconverted. As time goes on, many seem to go through the stages of grief and move on toward forging a new, more peaceful paradigm.

 

[Buttercup]

Deconversion is disorienting. Everything we previously held sacred is suddenly no longer sacred. This is especially true for those coming from religions that make heavy use of guilt and/or threats. I went through a period of bitter resentment - which still occasionally rises to the surface, though less frequently now. Many of us felt betrayed into believing what we later perceived as misguidance, having wasted much emotional energy and precious time in a race the wrong direction.

It's not unlike the child who goes along with his or her parents' dreams for the future but then rebels upon realizing that those don't fit. There is often a resentment built up.

Although it's not universally true, I think you will find it usually more intense for those relatively recently deconverted. As time goes on, many seem to go through the stages of grief and move on toward forging a new, more peaceful paradigm.

Very well said....frubals for sho!

I am probably in this stage although I've had several people tell me my posts on RF are still just as goofy as ever. It's disappointing to realize what you used to believe is now so wrong in so many ways.

While you might see many people as hostile toward their former religion, Victor. I now see a holierthanthou smugness in many of my former Christian brothers/sisters that I didn't see when I was still in the faith.

 

[Quiddity]

I can only answer for myself Victor, but I, personally feel as if I was cheated out of many Sunday mornings I could have been fishing, Sunday nights I could have been watching football, and Wednesday nights I could have been shooting hoops with my brother. On top of that, I walked around with unnecessary guilt over not being able to live to an impossible standard, and I see the extreme harm that comes from the "us vs. them" mentality intrinsic to organized religious worship.

All in all, I, personally view religious institutions as generally harmful to the intellectual and cultural development of people, and in the South, where I live, I see them as being bigotted toward those who are not heterosexual, Biblical Literalist, Young Earther's, which I find deplorable, and disgusting.

Because I think that church tends to shut off intellectual development and tends to make people distrust, dislike, and view with disdain anyone who is not a member of that church, or at least some like minded church (remember I live in DFW where we just made national news because a local Baptist Church refuses to bury a gay Persian Gulf vet), and I find those things distasteful, then I, naturally rebel against such notions.

Other people's story's may differ, but I just watched two co-workers ranting for 15 minutes about how that "sinning sodomite" dared to want to have a funeral service "in the house of our lord" and that the "scriptures say this behavior is abhorrent" and "if the scripture says it, that is all I need, there is no thinking to be done on the subject." This is the norm, down here, and not the exception, and I find that just terrible.

B.

I can't say my experiences are the same. Southern California is diverse enough to diffuse much of that I suppose. Bumping into someone that disagrees with you is almost a given. In fact, it's quite the opposite in my work. People have religious jokes often and making fun of them is just thing to do. Shhhhh....don't them I'm catholic though, then the jokes will stop.

Hostility toward religion is actually more common for me to bump into then what you see in the Bible belt. But I know there are charitable and good non-theist that don't express there disagreements like that. I hope you know the same of theist.

 

[Quiddity]

Deconversion is disorienting. Everything we previously held sacred is suddenly no longer sacred. This is especially true for those coming from religions that make heavy use of guilt and/or threats. I went through a period of bitter resentment - which still occasionally rises to the surface, though less frequently now. Many of us felt betrayed into believing what we later perceived as misguidance, having wasted much emotional energy and precious time in a race the wrong direction.

It's not unlike the child who goes along with his or her parents' dreams for the future but then rebels upon realizing that those don't fit. There is often a resentment built up.

Although it's not universally true, I think you will find it usually more intense for those relatively recently deconverted. As time goes on, many seem to go through the stages of grief and move on toward forging a new, more peaceful paradigm.

That's very similar to what my good friend went through. Was nasty as can be for over two years and then just stopped. In his case, I can probably pin point why things went south (or north for those who see it that way).

 

[doppelganger]

It's not unlike the child who goes along with his or her parents' dreams for the future but then rebels upon realizing that those don't fit. There is often a resentment built up.

I think this is true of anything to which a person has a powerfully emotional and idealized attachment. When the point of emotional separation within one's identity occurs, all the intensity of emotion that made one devote one's self to the person, group, idea turns into disappointment and whatever it was that devoted attachment was hiding is laid bare.

A good example is divorce, where people will lie to themselves for years and keep up appearances and try to gloss over the cracks and forget the faults, until that one day of schism rolls around and all that cognitive dissonance gets stripped away like sand under a pressure washer, revealing all the open wounds it was hiding. It takes a while to come to heal and come to grips with those wounds that religion helps us to hide. For some, such an exposure requires them to slip into some other religious or quasi-religious escape perhaps.

 

[Buttercup]

I can probably pin point why things went south (or north for those who see it that way).

Hahaa! I like that.

 

[Runt]

I imagine the folks who slander the religions to which they used to belong do so because of intensely negative experiences or impressions they received while belonging to that religion. They probably (and sometimes accurately) believe those experiences and impressions are common not merely to their congregation, but to the religion as a whole, and so slander the religion for its (perceived or actual) flaws.

 

[Jaymes]

Perceived deception probably plays into it a lot. I know when I first left Christianity I was really resentful that I had been told that gay people were evil, anyone that isn't a Christian goes to hell, etc etc.

 

[MdmSzdWhtGuy]

I can't say my experiences are the same. Southern California is diverse enough to diffuse much of that I suppose. Bumping into someone that disagrees with you is almost a given. In fact, it's quite the opposite in my work. People have religious jokes often and making fun of them is just thing to do. Shhhhh....don't them I'm catholic though, then the jokes will stop.

Hostility toward religion is actually more common for me to bump into then what you see in the Bible belt. But I know there are charitable and good non-theist that don't express there disagreements like that. I hope you know the same of theist.

Some of my absolutely most favorite people in the world are theists. I am firmly convinced that they are wildly misguided, but in general are good, honest, "salt of the earth" type of people. I just don't want them making policy decisions that will affect me, is all. Almost all theists I know would be considered fundamentalists by anyone who lives outside the Bible Belt, and many of them would, if given the power, make extra-marital sex, pre-marital sex, homosexuality, speaking out against the church, expressing any viewpoint other than the Bible, having any religion other than an Evangelical one, and many other things, illegal, and harshly punished. I do not say this for effect, I am surrounded by people who absolutely would do this in a heartbeat if only given the power to do so.

I, on the other hand, am a pesky freethinker, who wants only for truth (however uncomfortable it may be) to be valued, for people to treat others as they want to be treated, and for everyone to have all the rights they could possibly have, right up to their neighbor's nose. Under which regime do you think a person outside of the social norm would be more protected?

The two paragraphs above, I think say as much about my personal feelings of hostility toward religion than what I was able to articulate in my first post.

B.

 

[Quiddity]

I imagine the folks who slander the religions to which they used to belong do so because of intensely negative experiences or impressions they received while belonging to that religion. They probably (and sometimes accurately) believe those experiences and impressions are common not merely to their congregation, but to the religion as a whole, and so slander the religion for its (perceived or actual) flaws.

Is this the way to go about in your opinion?

 

[Runt]

Is this the way to go about in your opinion?

It depends. If you truly did encounter intolerance and injustice, then I believe it is your moral duty to speak out. Silence will not bring about an end to injustice.

However, I recognize that sometimes people may think they see intolerance and injustice when it isn't actually there. Also, even if they do indeed witness something deserving of criticism, I believe there is an appropriate way to address the issue. Mudslinging for the sake of mudslinging will not get you anywhere. Criticism must be delivered in a controlled, pointed manner, backed up by evidence and supported by logic. Otherwise, one is merely contributing to the problem.

 

[Quiddity]

Some of my absolutely most favorite people in the world are theists. I am firmly convinced that they are wildly misguided, but in general are good, honest, "salt of the earth" type of people. I just don't want them making policy decisions that will affect me, is all. Almost all theists I know would be considered fundamentalists by anyone who lives outside the Bible Belt, and many of them would, if given the power, make extra-marital sex, pre-marital sex, homosexuality, speaking out against the church, expressing any viewpoint other than the Bible, having any religion other than an Evangelical one, and many other things, illegal, and harshly punished. I do not say this for effect, I am surrounded by people who absolutely would do this in a heartbeat if only given the power to do so.

I, on the other hand, am a pesky freethinker, who wants only for truth (however uncomfortable it may be) to be valued, for people to treat others as they want to be treated, and for everyone to have all the rights they could possibly have, right up to their neighbor's nose. Under which regime do you think a person outside of the social norm would be more protected?

The two paragraphs above, I think say as much about my personal feelings of hostility toward religion than what I was able to articulate in my first post.

B.

That's a tough one. I can't say I share the views of your fundamentalist friends, but I do understand it. There are certain things that I am strong on (Abortion, Certain Stem Cell methods, Euthanasia, and a few others) but it doesn't necessarily have follow that one can't be a freethinker and hold charitable discussions on various issues. That may be more of the fundamentalist knee-jerk reaction. It really does depend on the crowd you are talking to.

In many ways I think the responses by people who leave religion is justified. To some extent, I think Christians become atheists oftentimes because they are sick of some hypocrisy among Christians that they see, or were treated abominably by professed Christians, or were in a corner of Christianity that doesn't represent the mainstream and they got a wrong impression of the whole. Whatever it is, it's not beyond me to see why they would leave.

It's just unproductive (IMO) that the tables have to turn into an almost fundmentalist type of atheism that seeks to destroy theism. It's nothing new by any means, but perhaps it's just me that notices an increase.

 

[MysticSang'ha]

Upon the discovery of the Buddhist sutras and finding a Buddhist community that I could be a part of, it's often times stressed that it is imperative to detach yourself from any and all hostility toward a former religion before converting to another. Remaining attached to those aversions can only confuse the mind and make one's practice toward enlightenment that much more difficult.

I was advised that I must embrace what my Christian upbringing gave me as a valuable step in my path toward nibanna.

In light of that, I can truly appreciate WO's post and the parallel to a child growing up and going along with what his or her parents wanted for him or her, and then realizing that it isn't what he or she wanted all along. To continue down that path would feel like committing spiritual fraud.




Peace,
Mystic

 

[Quiddity]

It depends. If you truly did encounter intolerance and injustice, then I believe it is your moral duty to speak out. Silence will not bring about an end to injustice.

And this can't be done in a civil and charitable manner?

However, I recognize that sometimes people may think they see intolerance and injustice when it isn't actually there. Also, even if they do indeed witness something deserving of criticism, I believe there is an appropriate way to address the issue. Mudslinging for the sake of mudslinging will not get you anywhere. Criticism must be delivered in a controlled, pointed manner, backed up by evidence and supported by logic. Otherwise, one is merely contributing to the problem.

Agreed.

 

[Buttercup]

And this can't be done in a civil and charitable manner?

Of course. I'd say in light of the subject having a tendency to be quite emotional and dear to the heart of many, we do pretty well for the most part on RF.

Do you not think so?

 

[Quiddity]

Of course. I'd say in light of the subject having a tendency to be quite emotional and dear to the heart of many, we do pretty well for the most part on RF.

Do you not think so?

Yes I do. I wouldn't be part of the staff or this forum if I thought otherwise. It's definately one of the better places that I've been in.

I can't say the same in real life.