Death

[URAVIP2ME]

He also said to His disciples...
'Many will come in My Name, even doing good things, and I know them not.'
Maybe you noticed?
God is willing, that His favored angel be cast out.
If God's favored angel can lose his position, even that position at the right hand of God....
Then no position is guaranteed.
It will take discipline...on your part ....that you enter eternal life.
And will it not require even greater discipline that you stay there?

At the time of Jesus 'glory' [Matt 25vs31,32] is when the 'many' people of Matthew chapter 7 will be saying 'Lord, Lord....'

Those of Matt chaps 7 and 25 are alive and living on earth at that time.
Since they are alive they are not part of the resurrection or resurrected ones of Acts 24v15.

Those of Matt chaps 7,25 that Jesus judges as unworthy of continued life either in heaven or on earth will be executed by the sharp words from Jesus mouth as described at: Isaiah 11v4; Rev 19vs11,14,15. They will Not have a burial as Jeremiah 25vs31-33 describes that time meaning No resurrection for them anywhere in heaven or earth. Destruction or annihilation awaits- Ps92v7.

As for the sheep-like ones of Matt 25, because they did good to Jesus 'brothers' [vs40] they have the prospect of remaining alive on earth when Jesus ushers in Peace on Earth toward men of goodwill and stay alive right into the start of Jesus millennial reign over earth.
As with Adam and Eve, it required obedience to God's law, and now such as obeying the new command Jesus gave us at John 13vs34,35.

 

[Thief]

And you have reduced my previous post?

In what way?

 

[URAVIP2ME]

And you have reduced my previous post?
In what way?

spaces. see original post.

 

[Thief]

spaces. see original post.

Still haven't seen any rebuttal that removes what I have said.

 

[mhiggs]

I sincerely doubt that there is an afterlife, but if there is, I would bet my life that it won't be anything like the bible says

 

[URAVIP2ME]

I sincerely doubt that there is an afterlife, but if there is, I would bet my life that it won't be anything like the bible says

...and what do you think the Bible is saying about an afterlife?

 

[jaareshiah]

I sincerely doubt that there is an afterlife, but if there is, I would bet my life that it won't be anything like the bible says

The word "afterlife" means: "religion: life after death: a form of existence believed to continue after death."(Microsoft® Encarta® Reference Library 2005) The churches teach that the soul is immortal and thus never dies, continuing on living and is not a Bible teaching. A prominent feature of Egyptian worship was belief in an afterlife. This belief found expression in the practice of embalming the dead and in the erection of huge tombs to honor them. The “Book of the Dead”, which was placed with a mummy, contained written spells intended to be recited by the deceased for protection and to guide him in the judgment in the afterlife. The Egyptians also mummified their dead and preserved the bodies of pharaohs in impressive pyramids, since they thought that the survival of the soul depended on preserving the body.

Various ancient civilizations, then, held one teaching in common—the immortality of the soul. Did they get this teaching from the same source ? The book The Religion of Babylonia and Assyria says that “in the ancient world, Egypt, Persia, and Greece felt the influence of the Babylonian religion.”

This book goes on to explain that “in view of the early contact between Egypt and Babylonia, as revealed by the El-Amarna tablets (the site of ruins of the Egyptian city Akhetaton, claimed to have been built in the 14th century B.C.E.), there were certainly abundant opportunities for the infusion of Babylonian views and customs into Egyptian cults. In Persia, the Mithra cult reveals the unmistakable influence of Babylonian conceptions . . . The strong admixture of Semitic elements both in early Greek mythology and in Grecian cults is now so generally admitted by scholars as to require no further comment. These Semitic elements are to a large extent more specifically Babylonian.”

The Bible rightfully teaches that the dead are "conscious of nothing at all" (Ecc 9:5) and that any hope of living again rests with God, by means of a resurrection from the dead. There is no afterlife, but rather living again for many who have died, but never had an opportunity to come to know their Creator, Jehovah God. That is why the apostle Paul told Governor Felix, that "there is going to be a resurrection of both the righteous and the unrighteous."(Acts 24:15)

During the thousand year reign of Jesus Christ (Rev 20:6), at which time God has appointed to restore the earth to a paradise (Luke 23:43), there will be a resurrection of the masses who have died over the course of human history that God deems worthy of living again, in order to be given the opportunity to come to know him intimately and prove loyal to him and thereby reach perfection as was Adam before his defection, never having to die again.(Rev 20:13; Gen 1:31)

 

[Beta]

Friend , just to take up your last paragraph is not as straightforward as you think. There is a lot of confusion and misconception about Lk.23v43 which could not possibly be taken at face-value. Jesus was not in paradise on the day he died but dead in his tomb for 3 days and 3 nights. Nor was he in paradise after that specified time and neither is the thief to whom he spoke. The Bible says no one has ascended to heaven except he who came down from heaven , only Jesus Christ Joh.3v13. Not even David is risen yet and he was a man after God's own heart.
Also Rom.3v10-12 says there is not one righteousous or good and all have gone out of the way .
All mankind must first be converted and you are leaving out too many scriptures that need to be considered before there is a resurrection.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Beta-

Looks as if jaareshiah is agreeing with you that Jesus was not in paradise on the day he died because he places the resurrection as during the 1000-year reign of Christ.
The prophet Daniel also looked forward to resurrection morning, so to speak, when the sleeping dead will awaken from death's sleep during Jesus millennial-long day of reigning over earth.
Daniel 12vs2,13.

How true Jesus did not ascend the day he died because according to Acts [2vs27,31,32] the day Jesus died Jesus went to hell [haides/sheol] until God resurrected him.

Confusion set in because of the placement of the 'comma'.
Jesus gave the promise the day he died, not that the promise would be fulfilled that day.

For truly I say to you today [,] you will be with me in paradise.
The comma [KJV] should have been placed after the word today instead of before.
Because KJV misplaces the comma [,] that has lead some people to think Jesus and the thief went to heaven that day.

There is no Scripture that says all mankind must first be converted.
Doesn't Matthew 20v28 B say Jesus ransom sacrifice is for 'many'?
The reason is because those that have committed the unforgivable sin will not be forgiven.- Matt 12v32; Hebrews 6vs4-6;10v26.

So true, Christ died for 'all', but all will not accept him as Jesus teaches at Matthew chapter seven.

 

[Beta]

URAVIP2ME,

You are right , I should have been more specific.
Only those who accept God / Christ will (must) be converted.
And you are right about the misplaced comma , It has created major confusion and erronious teaching in traditional christianity.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Beta-

Do you think there will be both a heavenly and an earthly resurrection? Acts 24v15

Also curious what you think the future holds for the sheep-like ones of Matt 25v32?

 

[Beta]

Beta-

Do you think there will be both a heavenly and an earthly resurrection? Acts 24v15

Also curious what you think the future holds for the sheep-like ones of Matt 25v32?

Joh.5v28 , 29 ....ALL that are in the grave shall hear his voice and come forth....to two kinds of resurrections; either eternal life or (eternal) condemnation. As I understand one is to 'spirit-life' the other to the lake of fire in the human body.
The same goes for the sheep and the goats. Scripture is clear about the difference of the obedient ones and the disobedient. They do not all go to the same place.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Joh.5v28 , 29 ....ALL that are in the grave shall hear his voice and come forth....to two kinds of resurrections; either eternal life or (eternal) condemnation. As I understand one is to 'spirit-life' the other to the lake of fire in the human body.
The same goes for the sheep and the goats. Scripture is clear about the difference of the obedient ones and the disobedient. They do not all go to the same place.

Good point either eternal life or eternal condemnation which condemnation is according to 2nd Thess 1v9 eternal destruction. Please notice how long that destruction is at Psalm 92v7.

The definition of the lake of fire is defined at: Rev 20 vs13,14.
The lake of fire is defined as the 'second death'.
Fire in Scripture can be symbolic of being destroyed or annihilated because things thrown into the fire of Gehenna were destroyed and not kept burning forever. [Gehenna was a garbage dump outside of Jerusalem where things were destroyed. Gehenna is sometimes translated as hell fire, thus giving the impression of literal eternal fire.]

Please also notice at verse 13 that all in hell are delivered up from hell or they're resurrected. [Acts 24v15] Since all that are in the common grave are resurrected they are also delivered up. That makes hell the common stone-cold grave of mankind where Jesus was before God resurrected Jesus.
see -Acts 2vs27,31; Psalm 16v10.

Also please notice it is not until all in hell [gravedom] are delivered up that emptied-out hell, vacant, void-of-people hell dies a symbolic second death or to never exist again.. That is why Rev 21vs4,5 can go on to say that even death will be no more.

All obedient ones either go to heaven or remain on earth.
The sheep-like ones of Matthew 25v32 are alive on earth at that time of Jesus 'glory' and they can remain alive on earth and keep on living on earth right into the start of Jesus 1000-year reign over earth. While Jesus 'brothers' of Matt 25v40 will reign with Jesus in heaven. Rev 5vs9,10;20v6.

After all that are in the graves are resurrected then at the end of Jesus 1000 year reign the abyssed mortal Satan will meet with being destroyed by Jesus as Hebrews 2v14 b brings out.

As far as the condemned goats they are like the ones of Psalm 92v7 who are annihilated or destroyed forever. Goats go to their destruction.
As Proverbs 2v22 says the wicked will be cut off from the earth;
transgressors will be rooted out of the earth.
Please notice who will dwell and remain on earth according to verse 21.

When Jesus promised humble mild-tempered meek people would inherit the earth [Matt 5v5] Jesus was referring to Psalm 37vs11,29,38 showing the righteous remain forever but the wicked will be gone.
That is why Rev 11v18 B can say God will bring to ruin those ruining the earth.
-Isaiah 11v4; Rev 19vs11,14,15.

So the everlasting life, or eternal life, that Jesus was offering was the same everlasting life that was originally offered to Adam if obedient.
That of being able to live forever on earth in human perfection of sound mind and body. Whereas those ruling in heaven are offered immortality.
[slight difference is that humans on earth need to eat, breathe, sleep, etc in order to keep on living besides being obedient].

So, Scriptures teach of two different places: heaven or earth.
Eternal lasting life in heaven or on earth for the obedient.

Destruction or annihilation is for the disobedient of both heaven and earth.

 

[Beta]

Friend , it appears we agree on some scriptures but not all. In fact some are fundamentally different and it would serve no purpose to go into more detail as I suspect neither of us would change our mind. No offence.

 

[jojo50]

What do you "see" when you die? Anybody have any interesting Near Death Experiences? I've always wondered what it's going to be like. First I thought it would be pitch blackness, like when you close your eyes. Then I thought it would be brightness and peacefulness. I have many views on what the afterlife is going to be like, but cant decide on one. Please help!?

i'm sorry to come saying what many will believe to be untrue. but if i don't satan will continue to make many believe the lies he placed out here. the first lie satan threw out there,ALL goes to Heaven,they don't! despite what many believe from what their ministers wrongly interpret. the bible shows only a select few will go to Heaven. (Rev.7:4 Rev.14:1-4 )

i was in a coma for days,i don't know if that is the same. but many have been,and also died,i didn't. still all i seen was dark,meaning nothing was happening. i didn't know my life was on the line,i didn't see anything going on. i didn't have a trip to either Heaven, or "hell",just to be sent back because" it wasn't my time to go yet"

but i do believe many who came back and said,they seen their dead love ones,a bright light,etc. but i ALSO know it was ALL in the mind,due to satans tricks. of course many will see those things,if they didn't. then humans wouldn't believe in what satan wants us to believe,which is God's word and those who teach it,is a lie!

if satan can make many see what looks like their dead love ones,though it's not. if satan and his demons can pretend to be humans. just so they can marry humans,then leave them when the flood came,(Gen.6:4). and if satan can actually physically attack humans,to the point they'll have scars, bruises, or posses their bodies,(Matt.8:28-31).

then he can most definately make humans see whatever he wants us to see.in order to make us NOT believe God's true words,and cause humans to die. there is NO afterlife,that's just something satan wants us to believe.and because he hates us,
(Rev.12:12), he would do whatever he can in causing us to be destroyed. peace