Death penalty or life in the joint?

[jeager106]

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2016/11/1...s-hospitalized-after-2-years-in-basement.html

Death seems too good for such animals.
Of course years, and years, on death row must be a punishment that fits the crime.

Frankly I know of no punishment to fit such a crime.
Perhaps the tender hearts among us would opt for counseling and rehabilitation then release
back into society.

Then there is this guy:
From the Tribune Chronicle of Youngstown, Ohio Nov.16, 2016.
Andre Williams on death row.
Andre Williams convicted of murdering on 1989 for beating a 65 year old man to death and beating
the man's wife into near death and permanent blindness from head trauma.

Perhaps Williams is just a misguided youth who grew up a poor ethnic child?
Tell that to the dead and wounded and the family of those victims.
Convicted in 1989 so why is he still alive?

I grew up a poor white child in a black neighborhood. I think I was about 7 or 8 years old
when I realized I looked different from the other kids.
My dad was in jail most of my young days and mother walked to work at 4 a.m. to bake
bread in a bakery.
She dropped sis and I at the Andrews home where ma' Andrews put us to bed with her
6 or 7 children.
They were black you see and didn't seem to notice sis and I were white.
All we had were one another in those days.

So why did I avoid a life of crime?
Why did I become a police officer and later earned two degrees and have been
employed since I was about 15?
( I'm 70 now and retired and my injuries are killing me. It freakin' hurts!)

By all social criteria I might well have grown up a criminal and in jail.
I have no answers except for "there but for the Grace of God go I".

So does society execute this guy or keep him on death row till he does of other causes?

 

[Kirran]

In America, the death penalty remains an option, allowing this to be a real discussion. Many countries have banned it outright. Personally I think that in a civilised society the death penalty has no place, and that it brutalises a society to carry it out. There is no situation in which I approve of carrying out the death penalty when imprisonment is an option.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2016/11/1...s-hospitalized-after-2-years-in-basement.html

Death seems too good for such animals.
Of course years, and years, on death row must be a punishment that fits the crime.

Frankly I know of no punishment to fit such a crime.
Perhaps the tender hearts among us would opt for counseling and rehabilitation then release
back into society.

Then there is this guy:
From the Tribune Chronicle of Youngstown, Ohio Nov.16, 2016.
Andre Williams on death row.
Andre Williams convicted of murdering on 1989 for beating a 65 year old man to death and beating
the man's wife into near death and permanent blindness from head trauma.

Perhaps Williams is just a misguided youth who grew up a poor ethnic child?
Tell that to the dead and wounded and the family of those victims.
Convicted in 1989 so why is he still alive?

I grew up a poor white child in a black neighborhood. I think I was about 7 or 8 years old
when I realized I looked different from the other kids.
My dad was in jail most of my young days and mother walked to work at 4 a.m. to bake
bread in a bakery.
She dropped sis and I at the Andrews home where ma' Andrews put us to bed with her
6 or 7 children.
They were black you see and didn't seem to notice sis and I were white.
All we had were one another in those days.

So why did I avoid a life of crime?
Why did I become a police officer and later earned two degrees and have been
employed since I was about 15?
( I'm 70 now and retired and my injuries are killing me. It freakin' hurts!)

By all social criteria I might well have grown up a criminal and in jail.
I have no answers except for "there but for the Grace of God go I".

So does society execute this guy or keep him on death row till he does of other causes?

Well, here, people take abuse of jail and rehabilitation programs. I have met and hung around people who have murdered others edit . They were with people like me who have disabilities all in the same place way back the middle of no where to be trained to get jobs from staff who not even professional enough to call 911 when they see me have a seizure. Staying in these places Rehab, Groups Homes, etc here I realized first hand (not opinionated) that because they are part of the government help program, the government sees them as "getting help" and they abuse the system by pretending that they do so they can have a place to stay and play.

People abuse jails because there are a lot of homeless here so there isn't really a place to stay unless jobs stop discriminating and actually hire people based on what people know not how they look and their noncriminal history.

Over here, I can't remember but there is an X amount of years a felony is on your record and then it drops. So if that criminal who others want to execute can and wants to live a productive life outside of the jail, then, that's the way I'd go. Unfortunately, we can't help people who abuse the system other than tightening the rules.

However, none of these things deserves taking someone else's life regardless of what they do. If you were in their shoes, would you want someone to kill you? Why? Do you feel you are bad inside to where you deserve death regardless if others think you do?

These questions I ask of myself when I think of capitol punishment. What if I were to commit a crime? How would I feel? Things like that.

Death whether punishment on earth or afterlife is not the answer. There are more productive ways of helping others if they know people will treat them human enough to be open to receive it.

 

[viole]

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2016/11/1...s-hospitalized-after-2-years-in-basement.html

Death seems too good for such animals.
Of course years, and years, on death row must be a punishment that fits the crime.

Frankly I know of no punishment to fit such a crime.
Perhaps the tender hearts among us would opt for counseling and rehabilitation then release
back into society.

Then there is this guy:
From the Tribune Chronicle of Youngstown, Ohio Nov.16, 2016.
Andre Williams on death row.
Andre Williams convicted of murdering on 1989 for beating a 65 year old man to death and beating
the man's wife into near death and permanent blindness from head trauma.

Perhaps Williams is just a misguided youth who grew up a poor ethnic child?
Tell that to the dead and wounded and the family of those victims.
Convicted in 1989 so why is he still alive?

I grew up a poor white child in a black neighborhood. I think I was about 7 or 8 years old
when I realized I looked different from the other kids.
My dad was in jail most of my young days and mother walked to work at 4 a.m. to bake
bread in a bakery.
She dropped sis and I at the Andrews home where ma' Andrews put us to bed with her
6 or 7 children.
They were black you see and didn't seem to notice sis and I were white.
All we had were one another in those days.

So why did I avoid a life of crime?
Why did I become a police officer and later earned two degrees and have been
employed since I was about 15?
( I'm 70 now and retired and my injuries are killing me. It freakin' hurts!)

By all social criteria I might well have grown up a criminal and in jail.
I have no answers except for "there but for the Grace of God go I".

So does society execute this guy or keep him on death row till he does of other causes?

Death penalty vs. life sentence?

Neither of them. We still have, theoretically, life sentences in Sweden, but I prefer the system in Norway, where they are restricted to military justice.

That might seem strange to other countries, but in North Europe civil justice is not associated with punishement or retaliation, or other emotional issues, but with rehabilitation and recovery of a socially defective individual.

Ciao

- viole

 

[jeager106]

@Carlita

Love the beagle pup.
I have a soft spot for beagles as we had several when I was growing up.

Recall I served over two decades as a police officer and saw the
worse of the worse of the human condition.
Sadly there are those that can not nor will not except aid of any
kind for reasons I can't explain.
Life in prison might be best to keep such two legged animals from
general society.
I've put many in prison who, when released, were arrested again
for more crimes.

I have no answers except to keep some out of society in general.

 

[jeager106]

Death penalty vs. life sentence?

Neither of them. We still have, theoretically, life sentences in Sweden, but I prefer the system in Norway, where they are restricted to military justice.

That might seem strange to other countries, but in North Europe civil justice is not associated with punishement or retaliation, but with rehabilitation and recovery of a socially defective individual.

Ciao

- viole

How's that workin' for ya?

 

[viole]

How's that workin' for ya?

Good. We seem to have no inconvenience whatsoever.

How does it work with you? Do you think you are safer in a random country with death penalty, or in a random country without it? In general.

Ciao

- viole

 

[jeager106]

http://www.nationmaster.com/country-info/compare/Sweden/United-States/Crime

It's difficult to compare the U.S. with any other nation reference
anything.

The U.S. is a bit unique. The U.S. is a vast melting pot of religions,
ethnicity, national origins, customs, traditions, and so much more.
Diverse is a word that hardly describes American society.

It seems so easy for other nations, especially Europe, to criticize
the U.S.

 

[jeager106]

Good. We seem to have no inconvenience whatsoever.

How does it work with you? Do you think you are safer in a random country with death penalty, or in a random country without it? In general.

Ciao

- viole

I feel quite safe here in this part of the U.S.
N.E. Ohio, mostly industrialized, about 50% ethnic mix.
50% white and 50% other.
I shop at a large grocery store on the edge of the ethnic area
of Youngstown and no one bothers anyone.
All races seem to be considerate of others.
But I have a handgun handy and fear no evil for I'm armed.

 

[viole]

I feel quite safe here in this part of the U.S.
N.E. Ohio, mostly industrialized, about 50% ethnic mix.
50% white and 50% other.
I shop at a large grocery store on the edge of the ethnic area
of Youngstown and no one bothers anyone.
All races seem to be considerate of others.
But I have a handgun handy and fear no evil for I'm armed.

Well, I do not. And I do not know anyone in Sweden who owns a gun. I think that if you need a gun, you are not safe enough to start with.

But my question is not about Ohio. I like Ohio. I know Oberlin and Holland and the airport in Cleveland. Nice places. Despite people showing their guns and the strange requests to check the guns at the lobby when you enter some buildings.

My question Is about a random country.

Suppose you need to leave Ohio and need to take a decision: I am going to randomly choose two countries with a great job opportunity in each of them. But one has death penalty and the other does not. But you have to tell me now, before my random choice, in which one you will go to live.

What would you choose?

Ciao

- viole

 

[David1967]

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2016/11/1...s-hospitalized-after-2-years-in-basement.html

Death seems too good for such animals.
Of course years, and years, on death row must be a punishment that fits the crime.

Frankly I know of no punishment to fit such a crime.
Perhaps the tender hearts among us would opt for counseling and rehabilitation then release
back into society.

Then there is this guy:
From the Tribune Chronicle of Youngstown, Ohio Nov.16, 2016.
Andre Williams on death row.
Andre Williams convicted of murdering on 1989 for beating a 65 year old man to death and beating
the man's wife into near death and permanent blindness from head trauma.

Perhaps Williams is just a misguided youth who grew up a poor ethnic child?
Tell that to the dead and wounded and the family of those victims.
Convicted in 1989 so why is he still alive?

I grew up a poor white child in a black neighborhood. I think I was about 7 or 8 years old
when I realized I looked different from the other kids.
My dad was in jail most of my young days and mother walked to work at 4 a.m. to bake
bread in a bakery.
She dropped sis and I at the Andrews home where ma' Andrews put us to bed with her
6 or 7 children.
They were black you see and didn't seem to notice sis and I were white.
All we had were one another in those days.

So why did I avoid a life of crime?
Why did I become a police officer and later earned two degrees and have been
employed since I was about 15?
( I'm 70 now and retired and my injuries are killing me. It freakin' hurts!)

By all social criteria I might well have grown up a criminal and in jail.
I have no answers except for "there but for the Grace of God go I".

So does society execute this guy or keep him on death row till he does of other causes?

Its a tough call. Do some people deserve to die for their crimes, such as the one you used for an example? Yes. IMO. But at the same time, someone else has to kill a human (I use that term very loosely) to carry out that sentence. Life in a not so comfortable prison with absolutely no comforts to me would be worse than death. However, God forbid, did some animal kill someone I cared about, I would flip the switch.

 

[Jainarayan]

I've wavered between the death penalty and life imprisonment with no possibility of parole. When people say the death penalty is not a deterrent, they are absolutely correct. It's not a deterrent, it's punishment. Simple. In a way it is a deterrent because it deters the person from ever committing a crime again. But it hasn't deterred others from committing murders.

Currently I'm leaning towards life imprisonment with no possibility of parole. And I do mean no possibility: no reviews, no pleas, no hearings, no nothing remotely related to parole. You're in there until you die either naturally or letting the prison population mete out justice. I might even go as far as saying no visitors, no phone, no contact with the outside world.

It seems like there haven't been a whole lot of executions in the US in the past 40 years anyway.

Source: http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/executions-year

 

[jeager106]

Well killing them is far cheaper from a strict economic point of view.

Prison is expensive and if I recall it costs at least $25,000 bucks
annually to keep a person in prison.
Like was mentioned if a loved one of mine were a victim I'd have no
trouble flipping the switch either.
IF I didn't kill the person first. Sloooooooooooooooooowly.
But that makes me a worse animal doesn't it?
I absolutely know of two cases that come to mind of the wrong person
jailed for armed robberies and they DIDN'T do it!
In one case a "dead ringer" was caught in another city that did the
crimes.
Sadly that guilty one didn't confess to our robbery.
Perhaps the perp forgot?
Dunno but the prosecutor refused to dismiss the charges.
I went way out on a limb and spoke up and eventually got charges
officially dismissed.
That's good but the bad part it the innocent was still stuck with
massive legal bills and suspicion by friends and time lost spent
in jail.
I'd take a good, clear, fingerprint over TEN eyewitnesses any day.

An example: A hit skip auto accident in broad daylight in view of many
persons.
It was a blue, dark red, green, maroon, small, large, medium, .................

Perception is unique to the observer.

 

[Kirran]

http://www.nationmaster.com/country-info/compare/Sweden/United-States/Crime

It's difficult to compare the U.S. with any other nation reference
anything.

The U.S. is a bit unique. The U.S. is a vast melting pot of religions,
ethnicity, national origins, customs, traditions, and so much more.
Diverse is a word that hardly describes American society.

It seems so easy for other nations, especially Europe, to criticize
the U.S.

Do you think European societies aren't diverse? France, the Netherlands, Belgium, the UK, Germany etc are hugely diverse societies. If we're counting the USA as diverse, anyway. Obviously all these countries pale in comparison to Indonesia, India, the DRC etc.

Canada is probably a good country to compare the US to, if one must pick one.

Well killing them is far cheaper from a strict economic point of view.

Prison is expensive and if I recall it costs at least $25,000 bucks
annually to keep a person in prison.
Like was mentioned if a loved one of mine were a victim I'd have no
trouble flipping the switch either.
IF I didn't kill the person first. Sloooooooooooooooooowly.
But that makes me a worse animal doesn't it?
I absolutely know of two cases that come to mind of the wrong person
jailed for armed robberies and they DIDN'T do it!
In one case a "dead ringer" was caught in another city that did the
crimes.
Sadly that guilty one didn't confess to our robbery.
Perhaps the perp forgot?
Dunno but the prosecutor refused to dismiss the charges.
I went way out on a limb and spoke up and eventually got charges
officially dismissed.
That's good but the bad part it the innocent was still stuck with
massive legal bills and suspicion by friends and time lost spent
in jail.
I'd take a good, clear, fingerprint over TEN eyewitnesses any day.

An example: A hit skip auto accident in broad daylight in view of many
persons.
It was a blue, dark red, green, maroon, small, large, medium, .................

Perception is unique to the observer.

Actually the way the system works in the USA, capital punishment is more expensive than life imprisonment. This is largely due to the legal apparatus surrounding it, I think (a case where the death penalty is sought is much more expensive), although getting hold of the right chemicals for lethal injection is also getting pretty difficult, and that's bound to cost. Also, inmates stay on death row a long time and it costs the taxpayer $90,000 a year more to pay for a citizen on death row and than one in a normal prison.

Estimates are that the death penalty costs states with it $23.2 million more per year than alternative sentences.

 

[Kemosloby]

Firing squad out behind the court building...

 

[Father Heathen]

I oppose the death penalty solely on the grounds that when it comes to false convictions you can free the imprisoned, but you can't resurrect the executed.

 

[Guy Threepwood]

I oppose the death penalty solely on the grounds that when it comes to false convictions you can free the imprisoned, but you can't resurrect the executed.

That's one good reason. I'm also not sure it's cheaper than life in prison, the years spent on death row, the legal cost of the process, countless trials and appeals- can add up to millions

But also morally, the death penalty is reserved for the most cold, calculated, pre-meditated taking of a human life, not crimes of passion. We all recognize the distinction, the greater evil

So to punish this with the most cold and calculated taking of a human life possible... it's not that they don't deserve it, it's about doing it ourselves

 

[Watchmen]

I recommend everyone read John Grisham's The Chamber. One of his best, and it addresses this topic.

 

[Nietzsche]

How's that workin' for ya?

Norway has the lowest Recidivism rate on the ****ing planet.