Couple questions from the new guy

[Nos Retep]

Actually I'm not really the new guy in the Temple. I've sent an email the the E.D. and haven't heard back yet. I figure he's busy but in the meantime I found this forum and thought I'd ask you guys some of my questions too. Let me know what's 'safe' to ask or whatever.

First off, I've been reading Theosophy for years now and in the library on the Temple's site, one of the posts had a mention against Karma. I do believe in Karma but not as such a direct ‘credit’ type system. I believe that Karma is a tool of our manifestations that we don’t consciously control. My understanding is based on our choices creating our next experience. This next experience isn’t always what we intended or what we would choose had we understood the outcome of the choice but the cause was still the same. I took this as similar to Xeper but I could be way off base. Could you explain a bit more the differences between Karma, choice, and Xeper?

Also, was it wrong to reply to the Executive Director's email by his first name?

Thanks

 

[Daelach]

Let me know what's 'safe' to ask or whatever.

If you want to know something, then follow your curiosity. I do not know a better driving force for Xeper. And even if the question were stupid: Better being stupid for one moment asking a stupid question than shying away from asking and remaining stupid for the rest of the life (-;

I believe that Karma is a tool of our manifestations that we don’t consciously control.

But we may try.

Could you explain a bit more the differences between Karma, choice, and Xeper?

Let me put it in a picture. Imagine a heavy steel ball rolling straight forward. Karma then is its impulse, and because of its inertia, the ball ideally would keep on rolling forever, not changing its direction nor its speed.

Choice then would be the act of deliberately applying a force to the ball which accelerates it into any direction. The ball might get faster or slower, or it might turn.

Xeper would be something new, adding an experience which had not been there before. This could be a force applied upwards which lifts the ball. Now it does not roll any more, it flies. Flying is something completely different to rolling. Before, you could think in two dimensions: Accelerating, braking, turning aside. A flat world. Now with a third dimension, you can move up and down. But you could not make that decision deliberately because you did not know this third dimension before.

In fact, it may happen that your terrain was not really flat so that the ball made an involuntary jump. Now the "normal" reaction would be fear, slowing down and returning to the known state. A Setian ball would begin to wonder: "Damn, what the hell was THAT?!", and he would start to examine what he had come across. So he would discover that there is more than length and width. He would discover the concept of altitude. And that would be xeper.

So xeper is also about breaking the carmic inertia. The past has influence upon our future because we think in terms of cause and effect. But this is a blind clockwork which does not leave room for free will - unless we decide to leave this clockwork.

Also, was it wrong to reply to the Executive Director's email by his first name?

I usually look at how people sign their emails, assuming that they most probably want to be addressed by the name and title they have signed with. So if he signed with his first name only, then it is reasonable to reply accordingly.

However, those folks often tend to put much store in their badges and ranks. To ignore those insigniae might insult their ego. If you want something from such people, than flatter them by at least making them think that you value their titles (even if you did not). Very basic LBM, I guess. Their normal "official" way of signing is title + surname. So if your counterpart were Eddie Example with the mighty title of "BigChecka", then you should only call him "Eddie" when you have acquired some kind of personal friendship, and he would be the one making the suggestion of a more informal style of conversation. Until them, call him "BigChecka Example".

This, of course, is no "officially approved advice"(tm) since I never even have applied.

 

[Nos Retep]

And even if the question were stupid: Better being stupid for one moment asking a stupid question than shying away from asking and remaining stupid for the rest of the life (-;

Thanks for the encouragement. Fair enuff'.

So in the example:

Let me put it in a picture. Imagine a heavy steel ball rolling straight forward. Karma then is its impulse, and because of its inertia, the ball ideally would keep on rolling forever, not changing its direction nor its speed.

Choice then would be the act of deliberately applying a force to the ball which accelerates it into any direction. The ball might get faster or slower, or it might turn.

Choice is the cause of whatever creates action in (or to) the ball. I got that. Free will can be the step prior to that if we expand backward I'm supposing. From there the ball's gonna do whatever it's gonna do and if it smacks us in the face, we have the choice to get mad about it or learn from it. The setian (ideally) chooses that later and the lesson learned would be Xeper, right?
I'm just thinking that Karma (Nemesis to the Greeks if I remember) isn't so much a energy or intelligence. It's a balance that happens whether we acknowledge or not. At least that how I take it.

Which kind of brings me to another question: Originally myths were ways of explaining not only philosophy but also science. Astrology and Nature and seasons and influences of mankind and such. Originally there wasn't mathematical equations for figuring out what planets would be in which sky at what time before dawn but the priests of the temples knew these things because the 'myths' explained how to understand these things. Mapping out equinoxes and eclipses and stuff was done by knowing and feeling the "Gods", planets and subtle influences.

How do we understand and what do Setians believe is the intelligence emanating these energies or "Gods"? Do Gods Xeper from themselves or Objective "reality"?

 

[Daelach]

The setian (ideally) chooses that later and the lesson learned would be Xeper, right?

If the experience has changed the state of the individuel in question, yes. Xeper does not only mean to learn, but also to change. To tell someone that he has remained the same he had been 30 years ago may be a compliment to many persons, but certainly not to a Setian. In fact, it would rather suggest that the Setian's quest may have failed.

I'm just thinking that Karma (Nemesis to the Greeks if I remember) isn't so much a energy or intelligence. It's a balance that happens whether we acknowledge or not. At least that how I take it.

It sounds much like some concept of a destiny which we cannot change. And this is an antithesis to black magic IMO. Things happen, and we cannot control everything as a matter of fact. But a sailor neither can control the winds, and yet he can set his course.

Which kind of brings me to another question: Originally myths were ways of explaining not only philosophy but also science.

The division between them occured only during the era of enlightment from the 18th century on.

Originally there wasn't mathematical equations for figuring out what planets would be in which sky at what time before dawn

Not equations since they were not yet invented. But they did watch the stars and derived their conclusions. The early astronomers did not get their knowledge of the stars from the myths, although they may have given the shape of myths to their knowledge.

In fact, math is one of the oldest sciences. For any agricultural economy, it is vital to know when to seed and when to harvest if there are distinct seasons. That is how astronomy developed. In the example of Egypt, they had to develop also geometry because the Nile would flood the fields, rendering it impossible to mark them by fences like on some American farm. The pyramids required good logistics because the harvesting cycles were determined by the Nile flood, and the food then was stocked. So it was about project management: How much workers are there? How much food is in the stocks? How much do the workers need? Will it suffice? And how much workers will be needed in what place? You cannot get such knowledge from myths or meditation.

Mapping out equinoxes and eclipses and stuff was done by knowing and feeling the "Gods", planets and subtle influences.

I do not agree. Their knowledge was based on past observation, extrapolating the things observed into the future. Of course, they would guard their knowledge and maybe give it the shape of myths in order to make themselves indispensable and to raise their status. Kind of workplace prohibition measures if you ask me.

Do Gods Xeper from themselves or Objective "reality"?

I can only speak for myself, but as I am deep into radical constructivism, the whole question does not make sense to me because I do not share the assumptions which are founding it. I do not believe in objectivism, so the whole debate of objective vs. subjective universe it pointless for me.

OK, I am now off to Egypt, so I will be out of here for some time.

 

[Nos Retep]

Thanks for the input.
I don't mean to say that Karma is destiny. I think that destiny is more of an environment for one to wade through. If my environment is slavish and I make no choices to change then my destiny is to be a slave. If I choose to change how I see mySelf and what I accept in my life then my destiny will be very different.

I don't mean to sound like I know my prehistory as well as I'd like. I guess there's a lot to think about but I try to keep the ideas in my focus when I'm reading about mythology. "What is the lesson being explained? What influence is being focused on?" That type of thing. The Epic of Gilgamesh and Bagavad Gita and their esoteric meanings and all. But that's been my primary study for so long. Here my goal is to learn more about ritual advancement and personal evolution along more determined lines.

Have a great trip! Stay safe!

 

[Sireal]

Also, was it wrong to reply to the Executive Director's email by his first name?
Thanks

Not at all Nos Retep. The rank and insignia labels are not hard-wired into Setians dealing with applicants. Let your own intuition guide you in your quest for personal sovereignty not the opinions of others....

 

[blackout]

I opened a similar conversation in another forum.

After some consideration of different responses...
I liked the idea that karma is 'haphazard' energy/reality manipulation
(without active intent... or willful design)
whereas Magick is personalized ... willfully directed energy/REALity manipulation.

The 'Physics'/nature of both is the same...
but the lack of intentful manipulation makes for
both haphazard/misunderstood results and haphazard/misunderstood label (karma).

Karma does not lead to Xeper... but perhaps haphazardly? :areyoucra

Interesting topic. To me anyway.

 

[3.14]

Karma - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Choice - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Temple of Set - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Nos Retep]

Thanks Sireal for the input. I guess it was one of doubting myself (little S) after I sent the email things. I gotta stop that. We'll see if I get blown off or whatever. Either way I'll be working with Self though.

Ultra- Thanks so much for:
I liked the idea that karma is 'haphazard' energy/reality manipulation
(without active intent... or willful design)
whereas Magick is personalized ... willfully directed energy/REALity manipulation.

I wrote it on my mirror so it sinks in and I'll go on my way.

Still reading Black Runa. It makes a lot of sense and some of the ideas (objective and subjective universe and their sources) are things I've thought about for quite some time. Does anyone have a working link to Fire and Ice?

 

[Sireal]

Nos, if you go through the links posted in various places throughout the Setian threads you should find lots of material t keep yourself deeply immersed in Setian philosophy. If you have more questions keep posting Fields Bookstore in SF has a copy of F/I but they want a 150 bucks for it- whoa!:run: