cosmic salvation

[trablano]

I wanted to ask around what you think of salvation into an afterlife for all the creatures on Earth would be more of a cosmic than a religious matter. IE, there is no overlord God who would raise you into eternal life but instead it would be a matter of course - life is born, life evolves, life dies, life goes on spiritually.

There are so many different creatures on Earth and there are so many proofs for mankind's evolution from monkey type predecessors that it would seem silly to assume that the afterlife would not be a matter of nature as well.

The question would be, what function do the gods have? Or is there something like a cosmic centre, the mighty Yahweh for example. I have prayed to Yahweh and always felt something. Jesus usually meant a joy for me when I had clarity. The man of love who sacrificed himself. The man of love who rose again. That means for me Jesus is a good deity. And that deities in general are good beings.

We just have satan in us still. Or we suffer from cosmic disturbances on Earth we might call satan. The endless silly enmity. The unkindness. The evil and stupidity. We are one mankind but something always disrupts our unity. Now more than before.

Or maybe Panentheism is true and God the person imbues the whole cosmos with himself, so that we are never without him.

 

[Aupmanyav]

I do not believe that life goes on spiritually or otherwise after death. One lives only once. So, salvation, enlightenment, nirvana, moksha, 'jnana' (knowing), understanding is what releases one of doubts. There are no Gods, Goddesses or Satan. Yeah, I believe that all things in the universe are constituted by physical energy. Mass/matter/substance is just another form of energy, though science does not wholly supports me in this at present.

 

[George-ananda]

Or maybe Panentheism is true and God the person imbues the whole cosmos with himself, so that we are never without him.

This

It is the same One experiencing through all of us. Our separation is the illusions to overcome. Through the lessons of love and the afterlife processes, we will eventually find and feel the Oneness.

 

[Esoqq]

I believe that God is to this reality much the same as we are to the cells in our body. Each cell has a level of intelligence and other capabilities sufficient for it to carry out it's tasks but little beyond that. In situations that are dangerous to it and the body other cells are dispatched to assist to fight off the danger. I find it unlikely though, even if a cell could pose the question what is my Human, that it would be capable of comprehending the answer. I feel we are in much the same situation. We're aware at some level that there is something beyond ourselves but we're incapable of comprehending what that is.

 

[Twilight Hue]

There's no salvation except within those ideas bouncing around in one's head. Death is final and permanent. Nothing is going to transcend in a manner that "you" survive with facilities intact and functioning.

It pretty much works as it has already.

I suspect eyes will open being It's already factual as evidenced by your birth, but it won't be "you" anymore.

I think "salvation" is natural processes and involves potential, so I suppose you could see this as a cosmic event.

 

[arthra]

I wanted to ask around what you think of salvation into an afterlife for all the creatures on Earth would be more of a cosmic than a religious matter. IE, there is no overlord God who would raise you into eternal life but instead it would be a matter of course - life is born, life evolves, life dies, life goes on spiritually.

Trablano,

Welcome to the Forum and thanks for posting! You mention the "afterlife for all the creatures on earth". In my Faith we believe the love of God radiates His creation and that the creation returns that love as it can.. The love of God for us can be returned to God... and we can also love our fellows .. neighbors and show kindness to all creatures! We believe that our souls survive separation from the body just as the new born infant is separated from the "world" of the womb and enters this life. So for us Baha'is this is both "a cosmic and religious matter"!

 

[trablano]

I live and I am dead
it's not life that goes on forever
but instead, it's everything
you can't photograph or paint it
it's needless to speak about it
take the photo, the painting, the poem
and smoke a cigarette
in the evening of clouds
where houses grow taller like our minds
that heaven suspects
we have known him now
the living secret of the Dasein
the climbs downwards and upwards
and left and right where God waits
to give you ideas
like get a coffee to your cigarette
and write poems and paint and photograph
the Dasein trails behind
and kisses us when we die...

 

[PilgrimOfLight]

I wanted to ask around what you think of salvation into an afterlife for all the creatures on Earth would be more of a cosmic than a religious matter. IE, there is no overlord God who would raise you into eternal life but instead it would be a matter of course - life is born, life evolves, life dies, life goes on spiritually.

We must ask ourselves, who and what are we?

I suggest to you that the human condition is like a glass bottle.

The bottle can be filled with honey and mead, or with poison. Whatever is in the bottle, it's not the bottle's fault. The bottle is always the bottle.

As humans we are in an incredibly vulnerable position. From childhood we are able to be filled, conditioned, programmed with all manner of ideas. Once those ideas are planted they are hard to remove, even when the rational mind gains traction and senses/deduces that the conditioning is false.

Step one imo is to know yourself (Temet Nosce)

Understand that you are a creature of Nature. You know it really, but the "stuff" pumped into you from childhood messes with that perception of truth. Nature is visible to us. Every day she shows us how she operates. Natures takes one thing, one form, and turns it into another form. Every form created suffers from the physical forces of the environment it is in, the forces of Planet Earth and the surrounding cosmos. No form survives indefinitely, that is Nature's biggest weakness/flaw. Nevertheless, every single primary building block prevails, continues and goes on to make the next form. Nature makes a larvae, from it comes a caterpillar, which is then turned into a cocoon in which the caterpillar turns to mush and all that primary fundamental matter is rearranged into a butterfly. Eventually the form of the butterfly collapses and itself returns to primary matter and Nature once again builds it into something else. We see this every day yet we ignore it, fail to see it's significance and instead believe the conditioning put into our "bottle" minds from childhood.

Nothing "dies", ever. All that happens is that form is lost. If you have a giant box of Lego bricks and build a fire engine out of it you have created a form. If your brother smashes it to pieces what happens? Is there any point or merit in saying that the fire engine has "died"? I would say not. All that has happened is a change of form. The Lego bricks have been dismantled and will be made into some new form.
Given we are creatures of Nature, it is plain to see that we are subject to exactly the same process.
We are being continually made, disassembled and re-made into different things. Call this reincarnation if you like, it doesn't really matter. It's a simple and obvious truth.

Consider this.

Before you were born, you were a sperm swimming about. Do you have any recollection of that iteration of life?
One can not refute that the sperm is alive. One can not refute that the sperm was you. Yet you have no sense or recollection of it. When your current form expires, collapses, rots away, you will become something else and doubtless will have absolutely no recollection of this life. It is what it is. We are stuck in this repeating cycle until someone or something gets us out of it.

There is no afterlife as such because there is no actual death. You are the fire engine. What makes you YOU will be dismantled and rebuilt over and over and over. Know who you are.

Temet Nosce.

 

[trablano]

So it is okay to die?
the lady asked and hesitated
and smiled her best
the little god admitted:
i do not know, little lady,
for I have been born
without a clock!

was it the cuckoo?
the husband asked,
and he threw a basket of clouds
into your mind!