Coronavirus: What would have happened if there had been a world government?

[CG Didymus]

You are correct, that is what all religions do, even Baha'is.
However, a version of what is true does not make anything true.
A religion is either true or false, logically speaking.

Yeah I'm more of a believer in "relative" truth and that there is "truth" in a religion.

 

[CG Didymus]

ideally, the best government is the end of a paternal governmental system
nanny-state socialism is doomed to end badly

Yes, in the U.S. we still have mostly old men running things. It might not be so bad if they were the wisest and most just amongst us.

 

[Trailblazer]

Yeah I'm more of a believer in "relative" truth and that there is "truth" in a religion.

So am I. Only God knows absolute truth. No religion reveals the absolute truth but rather only relative truth, only the amount of truth that humans are able to comprehend at the time of revelation. Baha'u'llah knew a lot more than He revealed to us in His Writings, but we could not have handled everything He knew in the present age. More truth will be revealed later when the next Messenger comes.

“Oh, would that the world could believe Me! Were all the things that lie enshrined within the heart of Bahá, and which the Lord, His God, the Lord of all names, hath taught Him, to be unveiled to mankind, every man on earth would be dumbfounded.

How great the multitude of truths which the garment of words can never contain! How vast the number of such verities as no expression can adequately describe, whose significance can never be unfolded, and to which not even the remotest allusions can be made! How manifold are the truths which must remain unuttered until the appointed time is come! Even as it hath been said: “Not everything that a man knoweth can be disclosed, nor can everything that he can disclose be regarded as timely, nor can every timely utterance be considered as suited to the capacity of those who hear it.

Of these truths some can be disclosed only to the extent of the capacity of the repositories of the light of Our knowledge, and the recipients of Our hidden grace.” Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 176

 

[CG Didymus]

I posted this in another place, but it is relevant here also;

"... Above all, we expressed our conviction that the time has come when religious leadership must face honestly and without further evasion the implications of the truth that God is one and that, beyond all diversity of cultural expression and human interpretation, religion is likewise one. It was intimations of this truth that originally inspired the interfaith movement and that have sustained it through the vicissitudes of the past one hundred years. Far from challenging the validity of any of the great revealed faiths, the principle has the capacity to ensure their continuing relevance. In order to exert its influence, however, recognition of this reality must operate at the heart of religious discourse, and it was with this in mind that we felt that our letter should be explicit in articulating it.... "

From this document

One Common Faith | Bahá’í Reference Library

It is a statement that is still relevant and is the intent of what Baha'i try to share.

Regards Tony

Sure Baha'is maintain the "validity" of the major religions... that they all are true and from one God. But... Baha'is do not believe in many of the doctrines and beliefs of the major religions. But one things I always like to throw in the mix is... there's been so many "major" religions. Great empires had their religious beliefs, but we don't believe in them and we don't believe in their Gods. Those religions were totally replaced by supposedly "better" religions and beliefs, because those old religions weren't all that good. And, an argument could be made that some religious beliefs even today are still not that good and should be done away with. And Baha'is seem to agree and are pushing to get rid of some beliefs held by members of the major religions.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Sure Baha'is maintain the "validity" of the major religions... that they all are true and from one God. But... Baha'is do not believe in many of the doctrines and beliefs of the major religions. But one things I always like to throw in the mix is... there's been so many "major" religions. Great empires had their religious beliefs, but we don't believe in them and we don't believe in their Gods. Those religions were totally replaced by supposedly "better" religions and beliefs, because those old religions weren't all that good. And, an argument could be made that some religious beliefs even today are still not that good and should be done away with. And Baha'is seem to agree and are pushing to get rid of some beliefs held by members of the major religions.

It must be made clear that we push no person to change anything they do not want to.

I have always said CG that it will be peoples own realisation of our oneness that will enable them to consider that they do not have an exclusive faith, and yes, in doing that, they may have some doctrinal difficulties to overcome.

Regards Tony

 

[Shad]

The Baha'i Faith has no intention of wielding power over the global government.

Yet you need it for the frame work thus handing over some power to construct that frame work.

That is TBD so that is why it is as yet vague. the Bahais are not the ones who will work out the details. We simply envisage the bigger picture, as the article noted:

So what alternatives do the Baha’i teachings recommend? Above all, Baha’is believe that we must weld the nations of this planet into a single commonwealth, a world federal system:

The unity of the human race, as envisaged by Baha’u’llah, implies the establishment of a world commonwealth in which all nations, races, creeds and classes are closely and permanently united, and in which the autonomy of its state members and the personal freedom and initiative of the individuals that compose them are definitely and completely safeguarded. …​

Babble that does not show a plan merely an ideal.

In such a world society, science and religion, the two most potent forces in human life, will be reconciled, will cooperate, and will harmoniously develop. …

Pure idealism with no idea how that is going to come about.

Yawn

Do note you never explained how this system would be created. Never talked about an issues such as how any nation like the USA, China and Russia are going to concede power to a bunch of 3rd world rabble calling the shots. You merely ignore those points ergo my first post is spot on.

 

[Trailblazer]

Babble that does not show a plan merely an ideal.

Pure idealism with no idea how that is going to come about.

Yawn

If you want to know, you will have to ask another Baha'i on this forum. I have been out of this Baha'i gig for a long time and only recently returned so I am not very proficient in these matters.

Yawn.

Do note you never explained how this system would be created. Never talked about an issues such as how any nation like the USA, China and Russia are going to concede power to a bunch of 3rd world rabble calling the shots. You merely ignore those points ergo my first post is spot on.

I do not think anyone -- except the All-Knowing God -- knows that yet. Only God can see into the future.

 

[Trailblazer]

I can understand this concern with having an incentive to work. And obviously if everyone had jobs it would help. But to me this is also where the issues are actually caused. This might be a rather long explanation, but will try to keep it short.

But try to look at this image from a cambodian factory:

Thailand factory

This give them a lot of very needed jobs, but lets be honest, I don't think anyone expect these workers to make a lot of money or even work under very good conditions.

This is from a modern car manufacture:

A factory like this, producing cars, would need to have had thousands of workers to do these things. (I can see one person in this image)

So if we put it into perspective, Imagine all the people in the first images, being replaced with robots, which is going to happen at some point or another. These will then have two options as I see it, either they head for the next factory trying to get a job, most likely having to work for even lower wages as more and more people are looking for jobs, or they will have to move to other parts of whatever country they live in. But regardless of where they move, they will not be able to compete with a machine or robot, that never complain, never need a break or vacation. And can work faster than they can, make far less mistakes and can work night and days if needed. No human can do that, the only competitional power such person have, is to demand less for their work. Which we know is going to be exploited and causing them to be treated bad.

To me that is why its crucial that things are changed. And I think the issue is mostly in what we are custom to do. You take an education (if we can afford it) then you get a job and work for the next 50-60 years. Because this is how things are done.

But what I think must be done, is to look at this in a completely different way, so people need to be constantly educating themselves, in a society where you are partly in the field, doing work, much like you do it today. But the rest of the time is spend in universities like buildings or knowledge/research centers, where ideas and problem solving are the main goal. With an idea of expanding our knowledge within various fields, such as robotics, how to improve societies, both locally and globally and to find solutions to the real problems we have. Not with the purpose of increasing profit, but to find and optimize solutions and apply that to the industry.

So basically, as I imagine it, its like asking, why a child cares to go to school... but merely for adults. Everyone is required to be part of this constant search for knowledge, mixing between "real" work in the field and finding solutions.

People would be paid just like they are today, so everyone would have a job, and would not rely on a specific business for their income, that might crash, move to another location, treating their employees poorly, because they need to make profit and so forth. It would give security for everyone and everyone would be equally invested in whatever solution we are able to come up with, as it benefits everyone.

Don't get me wrong, Im well aware that it might sound a bit futuristic, but I really think that something has to be done, because I really can't see how we are going to maintain things in the future if nothing is done.

And I think people that say (which is very common), that new jobs will simply be created, so that there won't be an issue, is greatly mistaken, but also completely misunderstanding some of the purposes of why things need to change.

First of all, due to the environment, we can't simply keep producing and throwing things away.

Secondly, computers and robots are soon so complicated that we are not simply talking about factory jobs being lost. But pretty much within all areas of work.

Not everyone which is going to loose their jobs are qualified to work in fields which requires a high level of technical knowledge, yet we have to put them somewhere to work or pay welfare.

So basically my idea is that people never really stop going to school, they simply continue in another educational direction (Research centers), when they are done with university.

Also I think this crisis, is a good example of what really matter in the end for people, regardless of how much money they have. Having the ability and solutions to solve these issues are the only important thing, when it comes down to it. No amount of money is going to save anyone, if there ain't a cure. No amount of money is going to bring back anyone from the dead.


That is because you misunderstand what socialism is.

Socialism in short simply means that you as an employee is invested in whatever company you are working in, so if that company is doing bad, so will you, but if it does good you will as well.

The way it works today in a lot of companies, explained simply. Is that you as an employee gets hired by the company to do a job. Now the company does very well, and make a ton of money. If you are lucky you get a bonus. But the majority of money goes to the CEOs and the investors. All the decisions about how and what should be done in the company is done by them as well, without you having anything to say about it. So those people are "milking" your hardwork and success of the company, which in huge parts is due to what all those people that "actually" work there, have done. All the knowledge they bring to the company etc.

Yet the majority of employees do not benefit from their own success, this is what socialism is talking about. That employees of a company, have a say in what that company should do and also benefit from their own success.

So it have nothing to do with the government taking over things and controlling everything, that is where the misunderstanding of socialism comes in. What that is, is "State capitalism" and what was done in Soviet union. they simply replaced the capitalists and those in charge of the industry, with government officials and then Stalin proclaimed that they had socialism, which it weren't, but he had no other choice, this whole fight and lots of people had died, making it possible. So for him to go out and proclaim that now they had achieved "State capitalism" would have been devastating for him. Because he wouldn't have achieved anything.

But obviously it made it very easy for the rest of the western world, especially US, to look at Soviet union and point fingers at it, and say that "look socialism is bad, look how badly the russians have it". Which obviously make people fear socialism/communism and turn to capitalism as being the good thing. So in that regard it was very successful.

The main difference between socialism and communism, is that socialism is introduced through peaceful means, meaning winning the election and then apply it through that. Whereas communism is through taking it by force or revolution, much like capitalism did.

Now, my solution is going passed socialism to something probably more like Global collectivism, with focus on sustainability, humanism and knowledge


And I think that is the main issue and that most people already know it. We are all humans, we share the same issues regardless of where we live, no one likes to loose a love one, a lot of the issues like a virus, do not care about borders. We are all suffering from the same dieases, we don't like wars, and we simply want a decent way of living, with food on the table and as little suffering as possible. That apply to everyone. But the system in which we live, is not designed to efficiently work towards solving these issues, its about power and fight over resources, govern by money, because in the end, money is what makes these things we really care about possible. But to me money is just gravel in the machinery the way it is now, so we have to redesign the system to works around that.

Well, Nimos… what can I say to all that, as until this Covid-19n pandemic I hardly ever thought about economics or politics. I am a dummy compared to you but I sure learn a lot from you whenever I talk to you.

Thanks for the photos, they really bring your points home.

You are right, the times are changing – economic, political, and social systems will be overhauled and new ones will rise in their stead. Many people are starting to realize that change is imminent and join together in a concerted effort to change the world. I think competition will be a thing of the past as cooperation becomes the norm.

You have so many good ideas to offer humanity. It is too bad you do not believe in God, you would have made a good Baha’i but since we do not discriminate you could still share your ideas with the Bahai’s since they are open to solutions for the new World Order as we call it.

Baha’is believe that Baha’u’llah ushered in a new age and a new World Order will be built in this age, also called the Kingdom of God in earth, which was of course referred to in the Bible.

“The world’s equilibrium hath been upset through the vibrating influence of this most great, this new World Order. Mankind’s ordered life hath been revolutionized through the agency of this unique, this wondrous System—the like of which mortal eyes have never witnessed.” Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 136

Since you are into systems and solutions, I just thought of some articles you might enjoy about the New world order we Baha’is envision.

3 Principles for Creating a New World Order

Toward a New World Order?

The New Stage of Humanity’s Development

We Live in Revolutionary Times—Why?

What Will the New World Order Look Like?

 

[Nimos]

Thanks for the photos, they really bring your points home.

You are right, the times are changing – economic, political, and social systems will be overhauled and new ones will rise in their stead. Many people are starting to realize that change is imminent and join together in a concerted effort to change the world. I think competition will be a thing of the past as cooperation becomes the norm.

Your welcome

Unfortunately, I think cooperation will be far into the future, simply due to how things are done today. The average person (you and me) have hardly any influence in how things are done, most likely we don't even know, what is going on behind the scene, and im not talking conspiracies here, but merely that, the world is one huge competition, between these large companies and organisations around the world, which is then mixed into the politics. The issue is that these companies are so huge and influential that they, as any other business will do what they can to defend their interests, which just happens to be in the global market, which means that their interests are not only in one particular country, but to make money and profit wherever they can.

If you look at the amount of money spend on lobbying in the US. We are talking about billions of dollars being spend on influencing people and politicians.

Pharmaceuticals/Health Products: $3,937,356,877
Spending $3.9 billion over the past 20 years, the pharmaceutical and health products industry has far outpaced all other industries in lobbying spending. It's important to note that this industry includes not only drug manufacturers, but also the sellers of medical products and nutritional and dietary supplements. In 2018, spending was topped by the Pharmaceutical Research and Manufacturers of America and Pfizer.


Overall, the industry is primarily concerned with "resisting government-run health care, ensuring a quicker approval process for drugs and products entering the market and strengthening intellectual property protections.”

And as you know you have the weapon industry and all the others doing the same. They don't spend this amount of money just for fun Why would they be so interested in resisting a government-run health care, which would be beneficial for a lot of the poorer americans? Lets be honest, no one is going to spend so much money doing this, if there is nothing to gain. So obviously they don't care whatsoever about cooperating or doing whats best for people. Its purely about how to make the most money.

And unfortunately it works, because the average American doesn't seem to keen on copying this system from other countries, which have it.

So you have these for all the major industries, weapons, oil and gas etc. spending millions of dollars trying to push whatever agendas they find important, and I think one has to be naive to think that, these agendas have humanities best interests in mind, rather than economical ones.

This is just an example of what I mean with, what is going on behind the scene. Most people will have no influence or probably even know, what types of deals is being done here, both in regards to their own country, but also globally.

You have so many good ideas to offer humanity. It is too bad you do not believe in God, you would have made a good Baha’i but since we do not discriminate you could still share your ideas with the Bahai’s since they are open to solutions for the new World Order as we call it.

Yeah My issue, as you already know, is that I don't see God having a lot to offer here, besides false hope. And the majority of the things, I say, I think most people are aware of, its not especially difficult to figure out if one just look around in the world and what is going on. But as anyone else, I think most people have no clue, on how one would penetrate a system like this, when pretty much all the resources are on their hands. Using the example above with the healthcare lobbying, one can only imagine that they rollout every single person they have in the fighting of Obama care to maintain their position. The exact same thing can be seen, when you have people going out claiming that climate change is not real, despite 97% or how much of all scientists say it is.

Baha’is believe that Baha’u’llah ushered in a new age and a new World Order will be built in this age, also called the Kingdom of God in earth, which was of course referred to in the Bible.

So I don't mind the Bahai position, think I have already said that. But I simply do not see it offer any solution, other than a false hope for something better. I don't think one can win or push these issues anywhere, simply with good intentions. People need to be informed about the facts, solution and be able to see why change is needed and why the way things are done now, is not a way forward.

 

[ManSinha]

So I don't mind the Bahai position, think I have already said that. But I simply do not see it offer any solution, other than a false hope for something better

And I have said the same thing over and over - writing prosaic grandiloquent letters with vague prophecies to heads of government is not going to change a thing. It is clear as day that neither Baha'u'llah nor his successors had any idea of the military-industry complex never mind how to dismantle it. Even the the law limiting political contributions in the US - the Dodd-Frank legislation has been attacked and tried to be dismantled. If the Baha'i's are not going to run for political office as per @Trailblazer 's assertion - then anything they try to do from the outside is doomed to failure.

IMHO this issue has to be tackled on both sides - organizations that do real good on the ground such educating and helping disenfranchised individuals without asking for anything in return - as Lord Krishna said to Arjun - do your duty and leave the Universe to me.

And then running for office and maintaining that level of honesty and sincerity to slowly decrease the influence of those that drive the current state. While NRA and Big Pharma can lobby politicians - thankfully it is still individuals that have the power to put those politicians in there.

 

[Nimos]

And I have said the same thing over and over - writing prosaic grandiloquent letters with vague prophecies to heads of government is not going to change a thing. It is clear as day that neither Baha'u'llah nor his successors had any idea of the military-industry complex never mind how to dismantle it.

Agree, first of all head of states are either only there for a "short" period of time, before someone else takes over. Alternatively you would need to write to a dictator, which most likely is not interested either. So im not really sure what he was hoping to achieve or expected would happen, by doing it.

If the Baha'i's are not going to run for political office as per @Trailblazer 's assertion - then anything they try to do from the outside is doomed to failure.

I think it would be for the best if they didn't. Not the bahais in particular but any "strong" religious group/organisation. Due to the mere fact, that they are not looking for solutions to varies issues, but simply to hand out answers, for which they have no foundation for.

That, at least in my opinion is not what the world need. Just look at how its going with Africa and aids, just to use an example. So there is an issue as everyone knows, and the solution offered by religion is that "God said not to kill..." so as a result, its extremely difficult help them, when they are convinced of that nonsense being true. To me, that is as close to legalized or accepted genocide of people as you can get, I wonder, how those people sleep at night and then at the same time can talk about God, being good and all that. (Obviously not saying that they are to blame for all of it, but their "solution" or lack of it, is definitely not helping anyone)

While HIV is a global epidemic, no continent has been more impacted than Africa. As a matter of fact, close to 70% of all cases of HIV/AIDS today are found in sub-Saharan Africa, with nearly one out of 20 adults in this region living with HIV. Moreover, of all children living with HIV in the world, 91% live in sub-Saharan Africa.

How we’re addressing the challenges of the HIV epidemic in Africa

What we need is facts and data, so we can make qualified decisions, for which religions can offer none.

 

[Shad]

If you want to know, you will have to ask another Baha'i on this forum. I have been out of this Baha'i gig for a long time and only recently returned so I am not very proficient in these matters.

It is your OP ergo you need to explain your idea. You are deflecting to other members to explain your view for you.... Try again

I do not think anyone -- except the All-Knowing God -- knows that yet. Only God can see into the future.

And the vague babble to remove yourself from having to argue anything you say and defend it. Again it was your idea. Explain your idea.

 

[Trailblazer]

It is your OP ergo you need to explain your idea. You are deflecting to other members to explain your view for you.... Try again

And the vague babble to remove yourself from having to argue anything you say and defend it. Again it was your idea. Explain your idea.

It is not MY idea, it is my belief. I do not know all the details regarding what will happen in the future, only God knows.

I do not know everything, nor do I need to. That is one reason other people exist in the world. Those who do not know something can defer to those who do know.

I have no interest in arguing or defending anything. I come here to discuss, not to win arguments.

 

[CG Didymus]

There is nothing new about the idea of uniting for common good and against common issues - the Baha'i faith seems to think at least from what is posted on here - that it has the answers

The older scriptures talk about unity, but was there ever a “plan” to bring about world unity?

Why would I want a unified world government based on religion or vague notions?

Oh - and the Bahai's have a plan? Pray do tell - is it anything other than writing grandiose gobbledygook to world leaders who probably throw those in the trash without reading them?

It would never be based upon a religion or vague notions. It would simply be a government like we have now, only larger and centralized.

I believe that people will become more spiritual because the Holy Spirit was unleashed in the world when Baha'ul'lah came. They will also become more spiritual when more people, and eventually everyone in the world, recognizes Baha'u'llah,

Baha'is believe that the Writings of Baha'u'llah are incontrovertibly true since we believe that Baha'u'llah was a Messenger from God, and God is inerrant.

Are you really that obtuse - what you are defining is dogma - there is no universally accepted proof you can provide - similar to those of other religions that have similar claims - you have claimed (erroneously IMO) that you have evidence but not proof - when challenged on the difference - you run away or provide some vague answers - an incontrovertible proof would be something like a space photo that shows that the earth is round - of course this being a spiritual matter you cannot provide such proof except to make hollow claims.

I do not know everything but I can get answers to some of the questions I have no answers for.
I am not trying to sell anything

You most certainly are - you are trying to "sell" Baha'i ideas as the answer to the world's problems - that makes your statement inaccurate

Some of those flaws can not be worked out such as giving a tiny religion and it's follow power over the global government.

Except you needed to inject your religious views as what that system would look like as per. "This brief speculative sketch of a potentially unified future world directed and led by a sovereign international government is brought to you by the Baha’i Faith, the global religion that advances a single major principle – the unification of all humanity:"

The Baha'i Faith has no intention of wielding power over the global government.

That is TBD so that is why it is as yet vague. the Bahais are not the ones who will work out the details.

The Baha'is have no plans to rule the world.

It is my understanding the the religion and government will always be separate but you might want to verify that with one of the other Baha'is on this forum.

Yet you need it for the frame work thus handing over some power to construct that frame work.

Pure idealism with no idea how that is going to come about.

Do note you never explained how this system would be created. Never talked about an issues such as how any nation like the USA, China and Russia are going to concede power to a bunch of 3rd world rabble calling the shots. You merely ignore those points ergo my first post is spot on.

If you want to know, you will have to ask another Baha'i on this forum. I have been out of this Baha'i gig for a long time and only recently returned so I am not very proficient in these matters.

It is your OP ergo you need to explain your idea. You are deflecting to other members to explain your view for you.... Try again

And the vague babble to remove yourself from having to argue anything you say and defend it. Again it was your idea. Explain your idea.

I do not know everything, nor do I need to. That is one reason other people exist in the world. Those who do not know something can defer to those who do know.

I have no interest in arguing or defending anything. I come here to discuss, not to win arguments.

Good stuff. To the Baha'is, not just Trailblazer. The virus has opened the door for the Baha'i Faith to show the world what its got. What is the plan? How do we fix things? Right now, if the Baha'is have a real plan, then now is the time to show us what you got.

Is it going to be left to others? To non-Baha'is to figure out the details? No, they aren't doing a very good job. What is the Baha'is plan? What are the details? You have the message from God, what did God say to do? How would Baha'is have solved this pandemic and the others that will come? How will they solve the economic problems of the world? How will they solve the climate problems? If the Baha'i Faith has the answers, then what are they? Like they say... time to step up to the plate.

 

[Trailblazer]

Good stuff. To the Baha'is, not just Trailblazer. The virus has opened the door for the Baha'i Faith to show the world what its got. What is the plan? How do we fix things? Right now, if the Baha'is have a real plan, then now is the time to show us what you got.

I fully agree. Now is the time. Unfortunately, from what I have seen, most Bahais are not taking advantage of this opportunity but rather they just continue to meet among themselves. There might be some activities I am unaware of though, I only know about my own Baha'i community.

Is it going to be left to others? To non-Baha'is to figure out the details? No, they aren't doing a very good job. What is the Baha'is plan? What are the details?

I have no idea what their plans are so your guess is as good as mine.

You have the message from God, what did God say to do? How would Baha'is have solved this pandemic and the others that will come? How will they solve the economic problems of the world? How will they solve the climate problems? If the Baha'i Faith has the answers, then what are they? Like they say... time to step up to the plate.

I agree, it is time to show you what we have. @ adrian009, @ Tony Bristow-Stagg , and @ loverofhumanity would know more than I do about what Baha'is are doing. I am not involved in the Baha'i community. I only know what is in the Baha'i Writings, not what other Baha'is are doing around the world.

 

[CG Didymus]

I fully agree. Now is the time. Unfortunately, from what I have seen, most Bahais are not taking advantage of this opportunity but rather they just continue to meet among themselves. There might be some activities I am unaware of though, I only know about my own Baha'i community.

I have no idea what their plans are so your guess is as good as mine.

I agree, it is time to show you what we have. @ adrian009, @ Tony Bristow-Stagg , and @ loverofhumanity would know more than I do about what Baha'is are doing. I am not involved in the Baha'i community. I only know what is in the Baha'i Writings, not what other Baha'is are doing around the world.

I was there when the Peace Message came out and Baha'is were very excited. I'll have to read it again and see what's in there. I think it might have been a type of call to the world that these things must be done.

 

[Shad]

It is not MY idea, it is my belief. I do not know all the details regarding what will happen in the future, only God knows.

I do not know everything, nor do I need to. That is one reason other people exist in the world. Those who do not know something can defer to those who do know.

I have no interest in arguing or defending anything. I come here to discuss, not to win arguments.

So your religion is going to defer to non-believers that have knowledge. After all your religion has never founded a state nor government.

Yawn. We are not even debating. You can not even discuss any details of your idea as you have no idea what you are talking about. We need those details for a debate to take place at all. You have conflated criticism of you with debate.

 

[Trailblazer]

After all your religion has never founded a state nor government.

Nor does it plan to.

We need those details for a debate to take place at all.

I think I told you that I do not want to debate.
I said: "I have no interest in arguing or defending anything. I come here to discuss, not to win arguments."

 

[TransmutingSoul]

I was there when the Peace Message came out and Baha'is were very excited. I'll have to read it again and see what's in there. I think it might have been a type of call to the world that these things must be done.

It was indeed, we handed it out all. Over the world.

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

What is the plan? How do we fix things? Right now, if the Baha'is have a real plan, then now is the time to show us what you got.

We have got what was first offered by the Bab, Baha'u'llah, Abdul'baha, Shoghi Effendi and now the Universal House of Justice.

The push has been for Unity at a community level with education and empowerment of children and youth in virtues and community service, all the while the call goes out to the world that the peace and security of mankind is UNATTAINABLE UNLESS AND UNTIL ITS UNITY IS FIRMLY ESTABLISHED.

Regards Tony