Core Axioms of Wicca?

[prometheuspan]

What are the core axioms of Wicca? Wicce? Stregheria?

How did those axioms change via oppression and genocide? as they were transmitted and watered down into popular culture?

How many of those axioms were contributed by G Gardner?

How many by fam trads modernly?

What are the different types of Wicca/ Wicce, and how do they regard those Axioms?

 

[enchanted_one1975]

What's an axiom?

 

[tumbleweed41]

What's an axiom?

A proposition that is not proved or demonstrated but considered to be self-evident.
Usually used in formal logic and common in ontological arguments.

 

[prometheuspan]

yes.

i thought everybody would know that?

thanks for the fyi

 

[enchanted_one1975]

yes.

i thought everybody would know that?

thanks for the fyi

Most of us are not language arts professors. Some of us do know our way around the business world though. If you want to sell something, use simple terms. Never assume your potential customer has the technology or background that you have. If you try to act superior you will scare the potential customer away.

 

[Rainbow Mage]

I know two of the core axioms, but like I said, I'm not Wicca, I'm Reconstruct.

1) To honor the old gods and goddesses respectfully.

2) An in harm none, do as you will

 

[prometheuspan]

3. There are three levels of self and ritual is something we do to involve child self;
actions taken in the physical world to represent actions taken in the psychic world.

4. Casting circle

5. elemental tables of correspondence..

6. Wheel of the year observation of seasons...

 

[enchanted_one1975]

Why do you ask questions if you feel that you already know the answers?

 

[Azakel]

Are you Wiccan? Are you a Pagan at all? If not you really have no place to come in hear and disguise question in a way to tell us what are beliefs are. We're not stupid, we don't need a non-Pagan coming into are DIR and telling us what's what. Not only is it not welcome, it's against the rule. If you wish you can still ask questions, but make them nice and don't try to play us like we're stupid. Thanks.

 

[prometheuspan]

Are you Wiccan? Are you a Pagan at all? If not you really have no place to come in hear and disguise question in a way to tell us what are beliefs are. We're not stupid, we don't need a non-Pagan coming into are DIR and telling us what's what. Not only is it not welcome, it's against the rule. If you wish you can still ask questions, but make them nice and don't try to play us like we're stupid. Thanks.

I hold a third degree in eclectic Gardnerian, and have spent considerable time inside of a famtrad.

I have been the sacrificed oak and holly king both; on several occasions.

I have facilitated dozens of Pagan/ Wiccan festivals as one of ten or so such facilitators with hundreds of participants.

If these do not qualify me to participate here, then I don't know what would.

Its funny that this is the only area in which such an objection was raised.

I'm not playing anyone as stupid, I'm asking simple questions to carry a conversation forward in the direction of my interest and to determine i think very meaningfully for myself what the forums participants do know.

I'm sorry if you feel somehow put off by this but it seems to me that any conflict you feel we may have is entirely in your own mind.

Why do you ask questions if you feel that you already know the answers?

This is called socratic method.

The reason for it is simple.

Its a means to focus a conversation and learn about other people.

Also, I can't know ALL of the answers, I'm human like anyone else.

 

[Gentoo]

I hold a third degree in eclectic Gardnerian, and have spent considerable time inside of a famtrad.

Eclectic and Gardnerian are two separate things.

I have been the sacrificed oak and holly king both; on several occasions.

I have facilitated dozens of Pagan/ Wiccan festivals as one of ten or so such facilitators with hundreds of participants.

If these do not qualify me to participate here, then I don't know what would.

Actually, you have to currently identify as that DIR. I don't see that on your profile, nor are any of us aware of that. Plus, you post a bunch of these threads in every DIR, and then tell us that you know it all. If that doesn't raise a red flag, I don't know what does.

Its funny that this is the only area in which such an objection was raised.

We pagans are more than aware of the posers that come in pretending to be pagan and knowing everything, both online and in real life. Our BS meter is therefore on high alert.

I'm not playing anyone as stupid, I'm asking simple questions to carry a conversation forward in the direction of my interest and to determine i think very meaningfully for myself what the forums participants do know.

Uh-huh...

I'm sorry if you feel somehow put off by this but it seems to me that any conflict you feel we may have is entirely in your own mind.

Don't take yourself out of it. Newton's 3rd law of motion can apply here.

This is called socratic method.

The reason for it is simple.

Its a means to focus a conversation and learn about other people.

Also, I can't know ALL of the answers, I'm human like anyone else.

I'm well aware of the socratic method, I use it with my students. However, there is a time and a place for it. This is not it. The DIR's are NOT for others to dictate the beliefs of those in that DIR. In other words:

10. Discuss Individual Religions Forums
The DIR forums are for the express use for discussion by that specific group. They are not to be used for debate by anyone. People of other groups or faiths may post respectful questions to increase their understanding. Questions of a rhetorical or argumentative nature or that counter the beliefs of that DIR are not permitted. Only posts that comply with the tenets or spirit of that DIR are permitted. DIR areas are not to be used as cover to bash others outside the faith. The DIR forums are strictly moderated and posts are subject to editing or removal.

And to quote Jay from another one your threads:

The idea here is to ask honest questions of a group rather than posture as socratic pedant.

 

[enchanted_one1975]

This is called socratic method.

I didn't realize this was the psychology forum.

 

[Guitar's Cry]

Frubals to Gentoo.

To answer the question cause I can cool a very basic and powerful axiom of much of Neo-paganism would be: As without, so within. And vice-versa.

 

[Guitar's Cry]

I hold a third degree in eclectic Gardnerian, and have spent considerable time inside of a famtrad.

I hold a purple belt in American Kenpo Karate, a Bachelor of Arts degree, and a beer. I've spent some considerable time in the woods.

 

[prometheuspan]

Eclectic and Gardnerian are two separate things.

were that not so listing them both would be redundant.

Actually, you have to currently identify as that DIR. I don't see that on your profile, nor are any of us aware of that.

Double bind. Either I'm bragging or you feel like I haven't proved myself to you?

make up your mind? i'm actually pretty good either way; humility or
bragging, but, you have to decide which way you'd like me to go .

Plus, you post a bunch of these threads in every DIR, and then tell us that you know it all. If that doesn't raise a red flag, I don't know what does.

so, either i am what i say i am or i am your red flag ...er...thingy. whatever raises that red flag under other conditions.

We pagans are more than aware of the posers that come in pretending to be pagan and knowing everything, both online and in real life. Our BS meter is therefore on high alert.

yes, i like to ask them if they actually know what their pentagram about the neck stands for as well.

Uh-huh...

Don't take yourself out of it. Newton's 3rd law of motion can apply here.

we can't be certain i'm not a figment of your imagination.

I'm well aware of the socratic method, I use it with my students. However, there is a time and a place for it. This is not it. The DIR's are NOT for others to dictate the beliefs of those in that DIR. In other words:

And to quote Jay from another one your threads:

Is this or is this not the place it is labeled as?

If it is, then my questions stand. If it isn't. please explain the rest of the hidden rule set and why those rules aren't openly stated.

I will again repeat. I'm not here to get into any conflicts with anyone. I have studied world religions and world religious history and have expert knowledge regarding several of them.

I'm interested in having an intellectual conversation at my speed with folks on these topics, And this is one way to drive such a conversation.

any question about my sincerity is frivolous.

 

[prometheuspan]

0. Discuss Individual Religions Forums
The DIR forums are for the express use for discussion by that specific group. They are not to be used for debate by anyone.

while socratic method can be a powerful way to set up a debate, nothing i have said or done on any of these threads could be construed as argumentative.

All i want to know is what the core axioms are according to what people know, and to thus guage the general knowledge and information level about.

I will be btw creating these threads and answering these questions myself both at the end of these threads and for my own purposes on the RBEF forum for its uses for promotions and the interfaith dialog.

People of other groups or faiths may post respectful questions to increase their
understanding.

Nothing about this relationship changes if i use a group knowledge pool rather than try to write the whole thing myself.

Having expert knowledge is not the same as having years to write also those textbooks.
100 people with those interests is a resource and an information gold mine.

I'm not trying to do anything but bring that into focus.

Questions of a rhetorical or argumentative nature or that counter the beliefs of that DIR are not permitted.

I will bear that in mind.

Again, I have asked such questions in good faith and in accordance with the stated rules and definitions of the forums.

While I understand and appreciate how that might arouse the suspicion of say a debate guru, I'm only asking these questions because I'm starting to model this problem quite seriously as part of the work i am doing elsewhere.

Thus in fact if you truly see where i am coming from i am not the argue inclined annoyance you fear but the sincere socratic method which I initially claim to be.

Only posts that comply with the tenets or spirit of that DIR are permitted. DIR areas are not to be used as cover to bash others outside the faith.

I am only asking questions. Yes those are the same kinds of questions a debate starter
might ask, no, I'm not asking them for those reasons.

The DIR forums are strictly moderated and posts are subject to editing or removal.
And to quote Jay from another one your threads:

thanks for the warning.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jayhawker Soule
The idea here is to ask honest questions of a group rather than posture as socratic pedant.

please let me know if you feel that i should continue to look for a religions forums to suit my needs.

 

[prometheuspan]

Religions

 

[prometheuspan]

Frubals to Gentoo.

To answer the question cause I can cool a very basic and powerful axiom of much of Neo-paganism would be: As without, so within. And vice-versa.

As within, so without, as the universe, so the soul, as the macrocosm, so the microcosm, as the external world, so the internal world, as we act in physical reality, so does that echo in tiferet, and as we do dream in tiferet, so might we make real in physical reality.

 

[Gentoo]

were that not so listing them both would be redundant.

I'm trying to decipher this sentence, but could you reword it so there are no further confusions?

Double bind. Either I'm bragging or you feel like I haven't proved myself to you?

make up your mind? i'm actually pretty good either way; humility or
bragging, but, you have to decide which way you'd like me to go .

That's not what I was saying. You're a new member, we don't know you like we know some others here. You don't have Wicca listed as your religion, nor were we aware of that. That's all there is to it.

yes, i like to ask them if they actually know what their pentagram about the neck stands for as well.

I hope I don't have to say that it takes more than jewelry to make a pagan...

we can't be certain i'm not a figment of your imagination.



Is this or is this not the place it is labeled as?

I have no idea what you're trying to say here...

If it is, then my questions stand. If it isn't. please explain the rest of the hidden rule set and why those rules aren't openly stated.

If that is your motive, then yes, they do stand. However, to answer your own question in the manner that you have done in this thread, makes you seem less than sincere. Heretical Monist answered your question to the best of his ability, and you added three more in the next post, while saying "a good list to start". I'm sorry, but I read that as arrogance.

And they are openly posted: At the top of the page, just under the main header, there is a series of links, Home, Who's Online, Today's Posts, Mark Forums Read, My Topics, My Replies, Supporter Arcade and Forum Rules. And you had to agree to them and the Terms of Service to even join this forum.

I will again repeat. I'm not here to get into any conflicts with anyone. I have studied world religions and world religious history and have expert knowledge regarding several of them.

I'm interested in having an intellectual conversation at my speed with folks on these topics, And this is one way to drive such a conversation.

I hope so, but still, the DIR is not for people to dictate the beliefs of those in that DIR. When you, a new member like I mentioned, start leading the conversation in the way that you have, that's how it's perceived.

 

[prometheuspan]

I'm trying to decipher this sentence, but could you reword it so there are no further confusions?

i am an eclectic and i am a Gardnerian. I studied Eclectic Gardnerian and famtrad Wicce.

That's not what I was saying. You're a new member, we don't know you like we know some others here. You don't have Wicca listed as your religion, nor were we aware of that. That's all there is to it.

I'm not sure what could possibly be vague about the things that i have said unless people decide to take it for granted that I'm lying or bragging instead
of telling the truth.

I'm a feral satyr. says so on my profile, has since i signed up.

i'm interfaith eclectic. said so since i started.

I hope I don't have to say that it takes more than jewelry to make a pagan...

wasn't that my point?

If that is your motive, then yes, they do stand. However, to answer your own question in the manner that you have done in this thread, makes you seem less than sincere.

I'm not sure why, to me it just seems like more cloak and dagger and drama when all i really wanted was the adult conversation we are now assuming i'm the one incapable of having.

maybe thats the problem. The point is I'm trying to increase signal to noise ratio for my own purposes, i guess this makes perfect sense to me but looks like a "rack your ducks up in a row so i can shoot them down" sort of game.

I can only say that again this would defeat the purpose, I'm interested in putting together an interfaith dialog to replace the noisy bickering in my part of the woods.

In short, i have done all the work myself but thats not the point, now i have to walk thousands of other people through that kind of research and waking up.

Heretical Monist answered your question to the best of his ability, and you added three more in the next post, while saying "a good list to start". I'm sorry, but I read that as arrogance.

I apologize for any protocol failure. Any full answer to the question is at least
30 or 50 axioms long and lists 20 growth stages and briefly describes how
the religion originated and evolved and grew and came to be in its modern form.

I have only the answer i would give to compare with, and my answer would be
detailed more and thus i feel the urge to prompt people towards the other stuff i am thinking of.

This is not fake on my part it is socratic method and then demonstration of
answers.

Perhaps i was impatient and if so i apologize.

I hope so, but still, the DIR is not for people to dictate the beliefs of those in that DIR. When you, a new member like I mentioned, start leading the conversation in the way that you have, that's how it's perceived.

maybe we should imagine that i have been here for years, chit chatting about religions.

You can picture me as DR paradox. I make everything fit together. I sell a living god to the atheists and quantum mechanics to the religious.

It all works out that I;m just showing people how other paradigms relate to their paradigm.

I have internally resolved the apparent conflicts and paradoxes and arguments between the paradigms and n longer see a conflict but instead a single whole puzzle.

You may not agree as many don't that it all fits together like i see it.

But its silly to question my sincerity when i tell you that I am in fact
a "this -ism" participant on all of these isms....

And when i can provide the heuristics by which i can integrate the whole thing..

I understand i think how people might end up suspicious but on the other hand its still back in their laps which is to say that once again i'm the aspie
and these are your social conventions and norms and expectations and
i'm not inside of that circus.