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contradictory passages concerning Salvation....

Discussion in 'Biblical Debates' started by michel, Jun 26, 2005.

  1. enton

    enton Member

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    Don`t forget those views you`ve found are from SKIPTICS.
     
  2. James the Persian

    James the Persian Dreptcredincios Crestin

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    Michel,

    From an Orthodox point of view their really is no contradiction here at all.

    1. Says if you are baptised and believe you will be saved but if you don't believe you won't. This is concentrating on belief, not baptism. Nowhere does it say that those who believe but are not baptised will not be saved, but it does imply that those baptised who have no belief will be damned. I'd also point out that the Greek word used for believe means far more than simple belief. It actually implies actions, trust in God and all the rest that sola fideist Christians reject.

    2. Says much the same, but from the opposite perspective. If you truly believe in (trust and love) God then you will follow His commandments. If you will not do this then, as James says, your faith is dead. Hence, you have no true belief and will not be saved.

    3. Is slightly different. Nobody can come to God unless He pours out His grace on them. We Orthodox believe that salvation is a process of man working in Synergy with God. God pours out His grace on all, we can accept or refuse. If we accept we follow the commandments because we love God and draw nearer to Him and God pours out more grace etc. God wills that all men be saved so He pours out His grace on everyone, but He will force nobody (though He could) and so He has compassion on those He wills to have compassion on - those who respond to His grace with love - and not on those who spurn Him.

    Does that make any kind of sense to you? I hope so, but I'm aware that I can't always express these things as clearly as I'd like.

    James
     
  3. solidus

    solidus New Member

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  4. nutshell

    nutshell Well-Known Member

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    There is no contradiction. Everything mentioned is required.

    Being baptized, but not believing will not save you.

    Believing, but not being baptized will not save you.

    Following the 10 commandments, but withholding your talents will not save you.

    We must do EVERYTHING.
     
  5. michel

    michel Administrator Emeritus
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    Thank you all.
     
  6. James the Persian

    James the Persian Dreptcredincios Crestin

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    If you believe that to be true then I can only imagine that you believe that Christ was lying to the Good Thief. Baptism is most certainly not absolutely necessary for salvation. What of all the martyrs who died for the Faith before having a chance to get baptised - the Roman soldier ordered to kill St. Alban who rather coverted on the spot and was killed too, springs to mind - are they all damned to hell for simple lack of opportunity? In my opinion, refusing to be baptised when you do have the opportunity is liable to lead to damnation as it is an implicit rejection of Christ. Not being baptised because you don't get the opportunity will not.

    James
     
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