Cleansing the Temple

[Thief]

the event seems sooooo firm in my thoughts
as if I were there


I picture it this way....

I follow the Guy around for three years
He did some things beyond human ability

He comes into the Holy City with a High Sabbath pending
seeing what is no more than a church bizarre within the temple walls.....
He finds a cord and begins tying knots in it
and with the tightening of each knot His Face becomes more grim

when He stands to the threshold He makes the announcement .....Get out!!!!!
He likely had to say it more than once.....loudly

as the silence overtakes the crowd.......I swear I can hear it......

someone laughed

and the whipping began....him first


no doubt several men thinking they could...tried to stop Him

as a black belt I have a good feel for what it would take to clear a crowd
from a place they call their own

that ability is FAR beyond typical
FAR beyond trained

and the event ends with Him standing alone

can you see Him?

 

[PureX]

Imagination is a wonderful thing.

 

[oldbadger]

the event seems sooooo firm in my thoughts
as if I were there

OK.....

I picture it this way....

OK...........

He comes into the Holy City with a High Sabbath pending
seeing what is no more than a church bizarre within the temple walls.....
He finds a cord and begins tying knots in it

Stop you right there.
Wrong.

He came in to the Temple with his disciples, and then looked around at everything, ........
...and then they walked out, and left, and went out to Bethany for the night.

It's all written down for you...thus:-

Mark {11:11} And Jesus entered into Jerusalem,
and into the temple: and when he had looked round about
upon all things, and now the eventide was come, he went
out unto Bethany with the twelve.

You see?

Now......... take it from there.......... then what happened?

 

[pearl]

[

You see?

Now......... take it from there.......... then what happened?

It is a mistake to assume that one account is the 'historical' when the 'eye witness' accounts do not agree.
The Gospels, not being literal records of Jesus' ministry have been arranged in logical order that does not necessarily follow chronological order. They do not agree on which day the cleansing happened.
John reports the cleansing of the Temple at the beginning of the ministry and Matthew at the end of the ministry! Were there two cleansings?

 

[oldbadger]

It is a mistake to assume that one account is the 'historical' when the 'eye witness' accounts do not agree.

There was only one eye-witness account.
Matthew copied accounts.
Luke was no witness and needed to copy accounts.
John had a selection of stories and anecdotes, many of them true, but he had no idea of where to place them in time. He also made up stories and stretched an 11-12 month mission into three years.

You're only left with one account, added to by careful study of the others, plus archaeology and other writings.

It's a mistake to overlook such simple research.

[

The Gospels, not being literal records of Jesus' ministry have been arranged in logical order that does not necessarily follow chronological order. They do not agree on which day the cleansing happened.

So careful study is needed. John's account of the timeline is just flat untrue.

John reports the cleansing of the Temple at the beginning of the ministry and Matthew at the end of the ministry! Were there two cleansings?

Matthew copied Mark.
John's timeline is junk.

 

[pearl]

as the silence overtakes the crowd.......I swear I can hear it......

Because you not only read Scripture but meditated over it by placing yourself in them, the Church would refer to this form of meditation as Lectio Divina.

 

[pearl]

So careful study is needed.

Absolutely. The Evangelists were not eye witnesses, but authors shaping, developing, the Jesus transmitted material (apostolic preaching), and theologians channeling that material to a particular goal.

 

[Thief]

OK.....


OK...........


Stop you right there.
Wrong.

He came in to the Temple with his disciples, and then looked around at everything, ........
...and then they walked out, and left, and went out to Bethany for the night.

It's all written down for you...thus:-

Mark {11:11} And Jesus entered into Jerusalem,
and into the temple: and when he had looked round about
upon all things, and now the eventide was come, he went
out unto Bethany with the twelve.

You see?

Now......... take it from there.......... then what happened?

ok
He made a whip of a chord....


and proceeded as I see it

and yes....I can see

or maybe you are denying the event?.....it did not happen?

 

[Thief]

form of meditation as Lectio Divina.

I had to look that up....

thank you

 

[oldbadger]

Absolutely. The Evangelists were not eye witnesses, but authors shaping, developing, the Jesus transmitted material (apostolic preaching), and theologians channeling that material to a particular goal.

Fair enough.
I believe that much of G-Mark was composed of the memoirs of Cephas, probably written by the man who once had followed Cephas around as a kid, the kid who ran naked in to the night during the arrest.

I think that Cephas was very upset with and about Paul, and wanted to set the record straight.

After evangelical editing it seems (to me) to be the real story.

 

[oldbadger]

ok
He made a whip of a chord....

and proceeded as I see it

and yes....I can see

or maybe you are denying the event?.....it did not happen?

You couldn't have seen it.

1. On day one did you go and visit the Temple and look around atr everything with Jesus? If not, then you weren't there.
2. On day two, did you visit the Temple and take part in the demonstration against the money changers et all with him? You may have picked up things to uise as weapons, maybe Jesus had a whip. If not, then you weren't there.
3. On day three, did you visit the Temple and support Jesus in picketing the Temple Courts, and during his debate against the Priests. If not, then you weren't there.

It's all written down.......... but you never mentioned any of those details, so I don't think that you were there, is all.

 

[Thief]

You couldn't have seen it.

1. On day one did you go and visit the Temple and look around atr everything with Jesus? If not, then you weren't there.
2. On day two, did you visit the Temple and take part in the demonstration against the money changers et all with him? You may have picked up things to uise as weapons, maybe Jesus had a whip. If not, then you weren't there.
3. On day three, did you visit the Temple and support Jesus in picketing the Temple Courts, and during his debate against the Priests. If not, then you weren't there.

It's all written down.......... but you never mentioned any of those details, so I don't think that you were there, is all.

and such is story telling....

if you cannot see it
the story means little to you

so....is it me you are denying?
or the story?

 

[oldbadger]

and such is story telling....

if you cannot see it
the story means little to you

so....is it me you are denying?
or the story?

I simply told you how it is described in Mark.

 

[Thief]

I simply told you how it is described in Mark.

about ....your version

can you see Him?

 

[oldbadger]

about ....your version

can you see Him?

It's not my version.
It's the report in G-Mark.

That's the book that Luke and Matthew copied.
John (apostle) was a 2nd century writer, so I can't credit his scattering of the stories willy-nilly.

If you think you were there..... ok.

 

[Thief]

Imagination is a wonderful thing.

and the problem solving part of the mind

no problems can be solved without it

it can also be used for thought experiments and shifts in perception