Classic failed science predictions and a faulty cosmological model exposed

[Tambourine]

Sure, spirits, for example.Do you?

But not physical matter?

I believe it is practical to assume that objects do not disappear simply because I don't perceive them at the moment.

 

[dad]

But not physical matter?

I believe it is practical to assume that objects do not disappear simply because I don't perceive them at the moment.

Like we should xare what you assume? You need reasons.

 

[joelr]

Everything Hubble sees is here. The light is here when we see it. All the hooey about how long it took to get here is religion based on a belief time and space are uniform in the universe. That is not known.

It doesn't matter how many times you repeat your crank ideas. They are not even part of the debate and have never been.
If you believe light travels differently in deep space you need to provide evidence. If you believe spacetime is any different than our local spacetime then you need to provide evidence. That's just to begin a debate. Then we can assess the probablity and the evidence.
Then you would also need to explain why when we look into the universe it looks like light and spacetime are exactly like they are here. Why the physics we see in deep space looks exactly like the physics we have in our solar system. Why everything in deep space behaves exactly how our local laws of physics predicts it should. Galaxy clusters, black holes, star formation, everything works the same.
You would have to explain why these "different laws of physics" send photons to us from deep space and the images we see strangely make everything look as if the laws of physics are exactly the same as our laws. Even things we cannot see like gravity waves. Our laws of physics made a prediction down to trillionths of a degree and using those laws we were able to detect a gravity wave. Which again shows the gravity wave is following the exact same laws we are.
I told you in one of the first posts you are not here to debate honestly, just waste time. No evidence, just over and over and over with "fishbowl" or "different laws".
Cosmological theories are not religion because they use the available evidence and because they continue to change as new information is found. In the 1940s the debate was steady state universe vs big band model. The version that provided evidence won. If new evidence comes in then the model can be updated.
When new information comes in about your ancient myths you use denial and hide your head in the sand and call scholars heretics. So your not even honest about calling science religion.

Go ahead, prove cosmology doesn't use evidence. Demonstrate that light changes when it enters the solar system. Explain why it magically gives the illusion that everything in deep space is using the same laws but it's actually an illusion. Why our local group of galaxies look to be around the same age even though you say they are not and time is different in deep space?
Why proto-galaxies that we see that are around 12 billion years old look like a 1 billion year old galaxy should. Why this "illusion" light comes to us and makes everything look so perfect and fits our version of how the universe developed? But it's really an illusion?
Why neutron stars spin at the exact correct rate the theory predicts? Why light from a supernova hits us from 40 light years away and then we look and see a 40 year old supernova?
You haven't offered one single explanation to suggest this evidence is not good evidence that the laws of physics is the same everywhere as is spacetime.
You haven't given evidence as to why would time run different. General relativity deals with time dilation and gravity. The objects in space are all following the rules of GR exactly as is predicted. Across the entire universe. So time would be as well.
Or does it just look that way because of the Yahweh illusion? Provide evidence for this illusion. And why would Yahweh create an illusion that the universal laws are all working the same? Why not just make the universe the same? No evidence. No sense. Nothing? Even Yahweh is like "Dude, what are you talking about??"

You just continue with the same response....... "oh light from the Hubble....different laws......blah blah.....It is the biggest debate fail I have ever seen.

 

[joelr]

Like we should xare what you assume? You need reasons.

HA HA HA HA!
Perfect! Yes we need reasons. Yet for "fishbowl" and "different laws" you have NO REASONS. No evidence, nothing.
It's exactly the same. Why think laws are universal? For that matter why think objects are permanent. Why think you are even you. Yesterday you were probably a man from Iceland. Tomorrow you will be a nurse in Wyoming who worships a different goddess.
Yes that is how wrong "different laws" is.

 

[Tambourine]

Like we should xare what you assume? You need reasons.

You asked me, and I answered. If you didn't care about my answer, then why did you ask me in the first place?

And I already gave you one reason: It is generally practical to assume that the objects we perceive persist.

Do you agree or disagree? What's your reason for believing in object permanence?

 

[dad]

It doesn't matter how many times you repeat your crank ideas. They are not even part of the debate and have never been.
If you believe light travels differently in deep space you need to provide evidence. If you believe spacetime is any different than our local spacetime then you need to provide evidence. That's just to begin a debate. Then we can assess the probablity and the evidence.
Then you would also need to explain why when we look into the universe it looks like light and spacetime are exactly like they are here. Why the physics we see in deep space looks exactly like the physics we have in our solar system. Why everything in deep space behaves exactly how our local laws of physics predicts it should. Galaxy clusters, black holes, star formation, everything works the same.
You would have to explain why these "different laws of physics" send photons to us from deep space and the images we see strangely make everything look as if the laws of physics are exactly the same as our laws. Even things we cannot see like gravity waves. Our laws of physics made a prediction down to trillionths of a degree and using those laws we were able to detect a gravity wave. Which again shows the gravity wave is following the exact same laws we are.
I told you in one of the first posts you are not here to debate honestly, just waste time. No evidence, just over and over and over with "fishbowl" or "different laws".
Cosmological theories are not religion because they use the available evidence and because they continue to change as new information is found. In the 1940s the debate was steady state universe vs big band model. The version that provided evidence won. If new evidence comes in then the model can be updated.
When new information comes in about your ancient myths you use denial and hide your head in the sand and call scholars heretics. So your not even honest about calling science religion.

Go ahead, prove cosmology doesn't use evidence. Demonstrate that light changes when it enters the solar system. Explain why it magically gives the illusion that everything in deep space is using the same laws but it's actually an illusion. Why our local group of galaxies look to be around the same age even though you say they are not and time is different in deep space?
Why proto-galaxies that we see that are around 12 billion years old look like a 1 billion year old galaxy should. Why this "illusion" light comes to us and makes everything look so perfect and fits our version of how the universe developed? But it's really an illusion?
Why neutron stars spin at the exact correct rate the theory predicts? Why light from a supernova hits us from 40 light years away and then we look and see a 40 year old supernova?
You haven't offered one single explanation to suggest this evidence is not good evidence that the laws of physics is the same everywhere as is spacetime.
You haven't given evidence as to why would time run different. General relativity deals with time dilation and gravity. The objects in space are all following the rules of GR exactly as is predicted. Across the entire universe. So time would be as well.
Or does it just look that way because of the Yahweh illusion? Provide evidence for this illusion. And why would Yahweh create an illusion that the universal laws are all working the same? Why not just make the universe the same? No evidence. No sense. Nothing? Even Yahweh is like "Dude, what are you talking about??"

You just continue with the same response....... "oh light from the Hubble....different laws......blah blah.....It is the biggest debate fail I have ever seen.

Light travels in whatever time it is in. When here in the fishbowl it moves at what we know as light speed. Saying crank over and over does not help you.

 

[dad]

HA HA HA HA!
Perfect! Yes we need reasons. Yet for "fishbowl" and "different laws" you have NO REASONS. No evidence, nothing.
It's exactly the same. Why think laws are universal? For that matter why think objects are permanent. Why think you are even you. Yesterday you were probably a man from Iceland. Tomorrow you will be a nurse in Wyoming who worships a different goddess.
Yes that is how wrong "different laws" is.

You need reasons to claim fishbowl time and space are universal. You have none. Ha

 

[dad]

You asked me, and I answered. If you didn't care about my answer, then why did you ask me in the first place?

And I already gave you one reason: It is generally practical to assume that the objects we perceive persist.

Do you agree or disagree? What's your reason for believing in object permanence?

We care about things not based on belief only. Got any? When it comes to belief, I try to lean on the bible, thanks. Our physical bodies are not permanent.

 

[Tambourine]

We care about things not based on belief only. Got any? When it comes to belief, I try to lean on the bible, thanks. Our physical bodies are not permanent.

So you do not believe that the physical world exists when you stop looking at it?

 

[dad]

So you do not believe that the physical world exists when you stop looking at it?

Not sure what useless questions and dime store mind games have to do with....anything here. Perhaps you should cut to the chase here, and reveal to us all the great point you think you have.

 

[Tambourine]

Not sure what useless questions and dime store mind games have to do with....anything here. Perhaps you should cut to the chase here, and reveal to us all the great point you think you have.

I've asked you several times whether you assume object permanence and all I got was vague, weasly language in return.

Put simply: If you want to assume that the makeup of the entire world was different before scientists started observing it, you need to ditch your basic assumption that observed objects continue to exist when they are no longer being observed.

 

[dad]

I've asked you several times whether you assume object permanence and all I got was vague, weasly language in return.

Put simply: If you want to assume that the makeup of the entire world was different before scientists started observing it, you need to ditch your basic assumption that observed objects continue to exist when they are no longer being observed.

The world was fine, thanks. Noah was fine. All the patriarchs were fine. The trees and animals were fine. etc. What was different was not that they were gone or invisible. Just because, for example, man stated to live only a few hundred years after the change, does not mean we were not here before that. In fact we used to live almost a thousand years. In many cases people lived right on through the change.
You might notice that no one (even those who were born pre flood or pre Babel) was recorded to have lived more than a little over a century after Peleg died. Of those born after Peleg, they all lived just a little more than a few hundred years, and it started to decline rapidly after that.

 

[joelr]

Light travels in whatever time it is in. When here in the fishbowl it moves at what we know as light speed. Saying crank over and over does not help you.

Ha ha, you just debunked yourself. In relativity causality/time is determined by light speed not the other way around. Relativity works everywhere unless you can demonstrate some dramatic change in the physics of spacetime. But we already can see everything looks normal in deep space.
You can't explain why it would be different, and you can't even explain why it would change when it gets to our solar system. Your crank is even crank.

But you haven't even bothered to understand how relativity works and how light speed works with spacetime to create time. It's already been shown by relativity that there is no "universal time", time is relative to each moving observer. You also cannot explain why relativity would fail to work in deep space. Except it does work because gravity works. Your crank is crank.

 

[joelr]

You need reasons to claim fishbowl time and space are universal. You have none. Ha

Right, oh except we can see space out to billions of years and we can see objects following the same laws of physics we have here.
Oh a major tenant of special relativity is there is no universal time, it's relative to each observer depending on velocity. This applies to the entire universe of spacetime. The idea that once you get past a fixed point after the solar system, outside the galaxy, whatever your idea is, things just magically change and time somehow is universally slower or faster and relativity just stops is about as crank as any words that could ever possibly come out of a persons mouth.

When you present some evidence it will be the first step to not being the purest and most spectacular piece of crank any forum has ever seen in writing.

 

[lewisnotmiller]

Not precisely diseases eradicated though.

I would much prefer a smallpox vaccine injection than a jolly good stoning

In either case the patient no longer needs to worry about smallpox.
So I'm calling check and mate.

 

[dad]

Ha ha, you just debunked yourself. In relativity causality/time is determined by light speed not the other way around. Relativity works everywhere unless you can demonstrate some dramatic change in the physics of spacetime. But we already can see everything looks normal in deep space.
You can't explain why it would be different, and you can't even explain why it would change when it gets to our solar system. Your crank is even crank.

But you haven't even bothered to understand how relativity works and how light speed works with spacetime to create time. It's already been shown by relativity that there is no "universal time", time is relative to each moving observer. You also cannot explain why relativity would fail to work in deep space. Except it does work because gravity works. Your crank is crank.

No. How anything moves in an area of time and space depends on the time there. It would not be a uniform speed across areas of different space and time. You only assumed it was all the same.

 

[dad]

Right, oh except we can see space out to billions of years and we can see objects following the same laws of physics we have here.
Oh a major tenant of special relativity is there is no universal time, it's relative to each observer depending on velocity. This applies to the entire universe of spacetime. The idea that once you get past a fixed point after the solar system, outside the galaxy, whatever your idea is, things just magically change and time somehow is universally slower or faster and relativity just stops is about as crank as any words that could ever possibly come out of a persons mouth.

When you present some evidence it will be the first step to not being the purest and most spectacular piece of crank any forum has ever seen in writing.

No, any billions of years in imaginary invented time based on assuming time exists as we know it on earth in all the universe. Face it that is a belief.

 

[blü 2]

No. How anything moves in an area of time and space depends on the time there. It would not be a uniform speed across areas of different space and time. You only assumed it was all the same.

Same old same old, eh?

You have no evidence to back what you say.

You have no theoretical basis for suggesting it might be the case.

Just stamping your foot and demanding the world conform to your wishful thinking.

 

[dad]

Same old same old, eh?

You have no evidence to back what you say.

You have no theoretical basis for suggesting it might be the case.

Just stamping your foot and demanding the world conform to your wishful thinking.

Spam of the defeated. Blow all you like.

 

[blü 2]

Spam of the defeated. Blow all you like.

Did you ever find that single geological flood layer all over all continents and islands and ocean floor, all parts of it dating to the same year?

How about that genetic bottleneck in every species of land animal, all the bottlenecks dating to the identical period at some time in the last ten thousand years?

And where did that missing billion or more cubic miles of water end up, did you find?

Maybe you've located one of those magic floodgates you mentioned and now can tell us how it works, exactly?

And while you're up and busy, check out a few other things ─ no, the earth isn't flat, no, it's not immovably fixed at the center of everything, no, the sun, moon stars and other heavenly bodies don't revolve around it, no, the sky is not a hard dome you can walk on and no the stars are not attached to the dome such that if they come loose they'll fall to earth. Even though the bible says all those things are true.

And maybe, given the time you've had to think about it, you can tell us why you'd expect the bible to report scientific views appropriate to the 21st century instead of appropriate to the times and places where its various books were written?

And why you'd think the bible would report scientific views appropriate to 2020 and not 1492 or 1778 or 3030?

I'm looking forward to your concise report based on your open-minded researches on these matters,