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Christians: Was God Once A Man?
- Thread starter joeboonda
- Start date
joeboonda
Well-Known Member
See, there is absolutely no way I can go along with that, I am sorry, I simply cannot, but thanks for your honesty. But I have a question, what was he before he was a man, was he a spirit-being or spirit-baby, honestly I want to know, not to debate but for my info. Anyway, if he was a man or spirit being or something before he was a man, who created him? My bible says his goings forth are from everlasting, and that he is from everlasting to everlasting, so I do not see how he was a man if he has always been God. I am interested in your explanation, it is fascinating to hear how you believe, and I mean that nicely, I am just curious. I have to work tomorrow, but I will be on the forums I hope some this next week and all, so I will check back. You all have a good night!
Sincerely,
Joeboonda
Sincerely,
Joeboonda
Hi Joeboonda,joeboonda said:
We really don't know much about what God once was and most of my beliefs are based on limited understanding of what I am and once was. I believe that God is our father and that, as with my father on this earth, I have the potential to become like my father in heaven. I believe that our spirits are eternal (or at least the matter that they were created with is eternal), so I would say that God is eternal in that sense also.
You and I both believe that Jesus Christ was a man and a God. I believe that he existed before he came to earth and that he continues to live and exist now. The fact that Christ was once a baby in his mother's arms does not diminish his importance. In fact, it personalizes him because he is tuely able to understand everything that we have gone through. The concept of God being man is not completely foreign to Christianity. The differences in belief happens most likely because the LDS members believe that God the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost are separate. Since the idea of them being seperate is totally foreign to most Christians today, they have a completely different concept of what God the Father means.
Eternity is difficult for mortals to understand. When it says that God is eternal and everlasting it could be referring to a few different things. For example, from our perspective, God is eternal and everlasting since we are his creations. As long as we have existed, he has existed. That's just my quick thought on the matter - not church doctrine.
Who created God? I don't know and the thought of trying to figure that our boggles my mind. At one point in our progression I believe that our minds will be opened and we will be able to understand all the mysteries of God. I look forward to the day when I will be able to answer every question. Until then, there are some where I have to say "I don't know."
Sorry if this post is kind of random. I'm trying to explain things as simply as possible, but feel free to ask questions if you don't understand something.
I wish I had some scriptures to quote to back up some of my beliefs, but as far as I know the concept of God once being a man is not contained anywhere in the LDS standard works. It comes from quotes from Latter-day prophets. We do believe that the inspired words of the prophets can be considered scripture.
joeboonda
Well-Known Member
Thanks, Jonny, nice explanation. We do believe pretty close on some things and it is true that we haven't been out there to see God so it is a bit of a mystery for the most part. Allow me, if you will to share my perspective on it. I look at it kind of like this; God has always been God, nothing less, I don't think he had to evolve into what he is now, I think he has always been Almighty God, omniscient, omnipresecnt, omnipotent, etc. One way I see that is that I believe he is the Creator, and created all things, yet he himself did not have to be created as he lived outside of time. This is a bit deep, but I continue...The universe, many say, had a beginning, therefore a cause or creator. God did not have a beginning (his goings forth are from everlasting) thus needed no cause or creator himself. Just like we were created in time. Time began when God made the universe (to me when he started the earth to rotate putting us in time) God, who has always existed is outside of time (from everlasting to everlasting thou art God) needed no cause. Only things 'in time' need a cause or creator. That is why alot of time we refer to eternity past, and eternity future, and these times on earth as ages, like the age of innocence, man's government, promise, law, church, kingdom. in that order basicaly. So in my understanding of the Bible and who God is, God has always been God, never anything less, and Jesus, who was with God and is God, has always been God, too. This is the biblical (only) teaching and works out quite well with me. Does that explanation seem to be a valid view to you? Not that I am the best at it, but I wanted to relate my perspective to you.
I will try to learn more about your faith, and ask more questions, as I know we all tend to misjudge each others beliefs and blow them out of proportion, and I don't want to be that way, I want to know as close as I can to what you all believe and why, so maybe we can learn a bit from each other. Shoo! I am wiped out! I will talk later, I enjoyed your reply.
Sincerely,
Joeboonda
I will try to learn more about your faith, and ask more questions, as I know we all tend to misjudge each others beliefs and blow them out of proportion, and I don't want to be that way, I want to know as close as I can to what you all believe and why, so maybe we can learn a bit from each other. Shoo! I am wiped out! I will talk later, I enjoyed your reply.
Sincerely,
Joeboonda
joeboonda
Well-Known Member
One more thing then I gotta go, the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, I also believe they are separate from each other, with their own functions and what not, yet I also believe they are a unity, or one. How that works, I dunno, the word from the Bible that comes to mind is the word, Godhead, which having looked in my Strongs is in Colossians 2:9, Acts17:29, and Romans 1:20. Colossians chapter 1 seems to tie Jesus and God together, and this is KJV, I dunno about the other versions so much. Anyway, I will have to research the whole trinity doctrine more, to discuss it. I just wanted you to know I believe they are separate beings too, only I believe they are all part of the Godhead. Ok, really gotta go. Bye!
Katzpur
Not your average Mormon
Joeboonda,joeboonda said:
Jonny got to this before I had a chance and, in my opinion, did a great job of explaining our belief. Since reading your post, I had been thinking about how to answer, so I guess I'll go ahead and add to what jonny has said.
The Bible says that "in the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth." I'm sure you will agree that there was obviously a time when our universe did not exist. Whenever that was, it was before the beginning, "before the clock started ticking," so to speak. We know that God existed before the creation took place. What was He doing in the eons of time before He created our universe and everything in it? The Bible doesn't tell us, because it is only a record of the period time since "the beginning."
Unlike other Christians, we have a belief about what God may have been before the beginning, at a period of time not mentioned in the Bible. If you want to get technical, this belief is not even canonical. In other words, it can't be found anywhere in our "Standard Works." It's based on a couple of statements from men we believe to have been prophets of God -- Joseph Smith, Jr. and Lorenzo Snow). Neither one of them elaborated on their comments much at all, so we are left with little to go on. It's something that is believed by most Latter-day Saints, but it is not something you hear taught in LDS worship services. You could attend "Mormon Church" services every Sunday for over 50 years and never hear a talk (i.e sermon) or a Sunday School lesson on God's beginnings. I can tell you that from experience.
As to the word "everlasting," as used to describe God's existance in the Bible, this word is translated from the Greek word "aion," (the Hebrew being "olam") meaning "age." Most of the time, when you see the words "forever" or "eternal" in the Bible, the original reading would have been "to the end of the age" or just "to the age." Thus, when the Bible says that God is Alpha and Omega, or the First and the Last, it is saying that He is the only being who exists from the first moment of creation forward. There are other instances in the scriptures when the word "everlasting" is used to describe things we as human beings know for a fact have existed only since God created them. (I'll come up with some examples if you'd like.) All I'm really trying to do here is explain our understanding of the word that seems to be causing the friction between us.
We believe that God is everything the Bible says He is. There are no LDS scriptures that even remotely imply that He is or has ever been something less than that. We hold Him in the same high regard as you do, even though we interpret some of what the Bible says differently than you do.
Anyway, hopefully my comments, taken along with jonny's, will also help shed some light on the subject. I want you to know that I appreciate the respectful way in which you have posed your questions and expressed your reasons for finding our beliefs impossible to accept. I would like very much to be able to have conversations with you in which we can respectfully share ideas and beliefs, but I've got to tell you that I'm really having a hard time getting past the post you made several months back. It was so filled with misrepresentations and distortions of our beliefs, and was so full of animosity and negativism that I can hardly read a post from you any more without that one popping into my mind. I'll tell you right now that a simple, sincere apology would go a long ways towards mending hurt feelings. I am always willing to let bygones be bygones, but it's hard for me to continue to be civil when I feel as if it's only a matter of time before the same thing happens all over again.
Finally, if you're at all interested, I have a good book recommendation: How Wide the Divide? by Craig L. Blomberg (Ph.D., Aberdeen) and Stephen E Robinson (Ph. D. Duke). This book was published in 1997, so it may be out of print now. But I'm pretty sure you could pick up a cheap copy on Amazon.com. The subtitle of the book is "A Mormon & an Evangelical in Conversation." Blomberg is an Evangelical scholar and Robinson is an LDS scholar. They are both committed to their beliefs, and explain them in four chapters: Scripture, God & Deification, Christ & the Trinity and Salvation. This book helped me to understand the Evangelical position better. I suspect it would help you to understand the LDS position. I highly recommend it.
Kathryn
joeboonda
Well-Known Member
Hi all! Hope everyone is enjoying the Thanksgiving Holdays, I know I ate too much! I didn't have anything really to ask at the moment, but I do want to tell you,Kathryn, that I am sorry for posting anything hurtful a while back. I don't remember the exact post, possibly where I said Mormonism was considered a cult by some christians? And for saying that I am truly sorry, because I know you all do not consider yourselves to be in that category, again, I am sorry I said that. I know you are a very sweet person, and you love God and everyone, and I really am sorry to have been disrespectful of you in any way. I know God loves you and all of us and cares deeply for us, and I care deeply for all the folks on the forums. Sometimes when debating, I can attack a belief, or doctrine especially if I think it is heresy or what not, however, I do not mean to attack any person, ya know what I mean? Like say, if someone said that Jesus did not die on the cross for our sins, that it was an imposter, I would really have to debate that point, as it is central to both our religions, but I am not attacking the person who believes that, just the doctrine itself. Anyway, I will be nice, don't worry, I am a nice guy, even though some folks aren't so nice to me here, I will still be nice. I promise. Well, I love you all, and hope to have a chance to talk of doctrinal matters again sometime soon. And again, I am sorry to have said anything hurtful, sure don't mean to be that way.
Sincerely,
Joeboonda
Sincerely,
Joeboonda
Katzpur
Not your average Mormon
Actually, it was the post back in September (which Jewscout deleted and which I received permission to address in the LDS forum). You received a 1-point warning for it. I think you probably remember it. It was considerably more antogonistic in its tone than the one in which you referred to us as a cult. Nonetheless, I will assume that your apology is sincere and am willing to accept it. I, too, hope we can learn to have a greater respect for one another's beliefs, because in spite of where we differ, we do both worship the same God, and are saved through the atoning sacrifice of the same Savior, Jesus Christ. I know He would never be pleased to see us be unkind to one another.joeboonda said:
joeboonda
Well-Known Member
http://www.utlm.org/onlineresources/ldsviewcontradictsbible.htm
I know you dont like me to copy things to the forum, so here is a link about how our God's seem to differ, I would appreciate your input on this article, although, jonny says he is now ignoring me, but, I am trying to be nice. Anyway, if there is error in this article, I would like to know. Thanks.
I know you dont like me to copy things to the forum, so here is a link about how our God's seem to differ, I would appreciate your input on this article, although, jonny says he is now ignoring me, but, I am trying to be nice. Anyway, if there is error in this article, I would like to know. Thanks.
Aqualung
Tasty
Pretty much it's just a matter of interpretation. I only skimmed the first part (because I get too easily distracted to read something like that), but it's an interpretation of what timeframe "everlasting" covers. To the LDS, it's pretty much that he was around before we were created, and he'll be there in the end. But to you it's that he essentially had no beginning, ever. That's my two cents.
fromthe heart
Well-Known Member
I believe God is,has,and always will be...GOD. The only time God was man was when He sent His only begotten Son down to save our sorry butts. Otherwise He has always been the great I AM...HE JUST IS! That's my take on it.:162:
Fallen Goddess
Member
As opposed to now being a woman?joeboonda said:
SoyLeche
meh...
Just a little thought on the matter. People are under the impression that if God were ever a mortal -(I'm going to use that word because I believe that God is still a Man, an exhalted, perfected Man) - that means that he was somehow once a lesser being. I don't really see it that way. Is a child a lesser being than an adult? I don't think so - they are just at different points in their development.
sandy whitelinger
Veteran Member
Let me see if I understand this correctly.jonny said:
Question: Do you believe that God was once a horse?
Answer: I do. Is there anything in the Bible that says otherwise? Nope.
Doesn't seem to work for me.
Now on to a more serious question. Joeboonda, do you mean did God start out as a man or did He once incarnate as a man (ie. Jesus Christ)?
jeffrey
â Ãig Dogâ
I believe that God has always been, never a man. We can't comprehend this. I'm sure he created other worlds before this one. He also created time. He knows what we will do because time as already been. I am not a God, nor have I ever been. I am just a humble servant of our Lord, Jesus Christ.