Christians: The Doctrine of Inclusion

[sparkyluv]

Has anyone else heard of this besides me? The paper in my city wrote an article about it (I'd post it, but you have to pay to see it) and it's from a man named Carlton Pearson who claims that (1) Jesus came to save mankind and (2) everyone is going to heaven. This everyone includes muslims, buddhists, hindus, atheists, etc

He preaches that:

A. The death of Jesus Christ on the cross and His resurrection paid the price for all of humanity to have eternal life in heaven, without any requirement to repent of sins and receive salvation.

B. Belief in Jesus Christ, is not necessary for a person to go to heaven. Salvation is unconditional, granted by the grace of God to every human being.

C. It is presumed that all of humanity will have its destiny in heaven, whether they realize it or not.

D. All of humanity will go to heaven regardless of their religious affiliation, including those who believe in false religions or adopt any other form of religious persuasion, or who have no religious persuasion.

E. Only those who have "tasted of the fruits" of real intimacy with Christ and have "intentionally and consciously rejected" the grace of God will spend eternity separated from God.

F. There are persons in some type of hell, but the emphasis is "to get away from the picture of an angry, intolerant God. I don't see God that bitter."

This doctrine completely disregards verses like:
Matthew 7:13-14 <---- hello?
John 14:6
John 3:36 <---- hello?
Mark 10:14-15
Romans 6:23
1 Corinthians 1:18
Romans 10:9
Romans 1:16-17
Romans 3:22-24
Romans 3:28
John 3:3
John 6:43-45
John 6:53
all of Hebrews 11

In short...he calls Jesus a liar.

 

[sparkyluv]

http://www.ondoctrine.com/10pearso.htm

^^^ Here's some info on it.

 

[Katzpur]

Has anyone else heard of this besides me? The paper in my city wrote an article about it (I'd post it, but you have to pay to see it) and it's from a man named Carlton Pearson who claims that (1) Jesus came to save mankind and (2) everyone is going to heaven. This everyone includes muslims, buddhists, hindus, atheists, etc

He preaches that:


This doctrine completely disregards verses like:
Matthew 7:13-14 <---- hello?
John 14:6
John 3:36 <---- hello?
Mark 10:14-15
Romans 6:23
1 Corinthians 1:18
Romans 10:9
Romans 1:16-17
Romans 3:22-24
Romans 3:28
John 3:3
John 6:43-45
John 6:53
all of Hebrews 11

In short...he calls Jesus a liar.

You can't possibly be serious! That's absolutely shocking! What kind of a God would love people who aren't even Christians?

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

I would not subscribe to this ministery.

But God does love all mankind
Indeed he loves all his creation.
We could argue about the niceties of salvation for ever
and never come to agreement with all Christians.

I too believe we all return to Gods presence,
But not with out cost, nor with out repentance, either in this life or the hereafter.
Gods love is unambiguous and is for everyone.

 

[joeboonda]

God loves everyone, but is also just and holy. God has no pleasure in the death of the wicked, and is not willing that any should be lost, but man has his own free will to stay an impenetent sinner and not accept God's free gift of salvation by trusting in His Son. It is horribly sad but true that many will go to Hell and not Heaven, that not all will be 'universally' saved, that is and has always been the clear teaching of the Bible even back to OT times, they understood the punishment of the wicked was eternal, and not all would be saved. The great theologians and scholars down through the centuries have understood the Bible to clearly teach this, as Jesus clearly taught it as well.

 

[Katzpur]

God loves everyone, but is also just and holy. God has no pleasure in the death of the wicked, and is not willing that any should be lost, but man has his own free will to stay an impenetent sinner and not accept God's free gift of salvation by trusting in His Son. It is horribly sad but true that many will go to Hell and not Heaven, that not all will be 'universally' saved, that is and has always been the clear teaching of the Bible even back to OT times, they understood the punishment of the wicked was eternal, and not all would be saved. The great theologians and scholars down through the centuries have understood the Bible to clearly teach this, as Jesus clearly taught it as well.

God loves everyone, but He's going to send the majority of us to Hell. Sounds real loving, all right.

I kind of figured ol' Sparky would find a soulmate in you, Mike. The two of you think a lot alike. Both of you, for instance, ignore the sad fact that not everybody has had the opportunity to hear and understand the gospel of Jesus Christ. In fact, when I asked Sparky if those who lived before Jesus would also go to Hell, he said this was "a poor example seeing as how they lived prior to Jesus." So, in other words, when he has no good answer, he simply criticises the question.

The simplistic, head-in-the-sand attitude some people have never ceases to amaze me.

 

[joeboonda]

Hi, I don't know what all Sparky believes, but I don't believe that people who never heard of Jesus or who lived before Jesus go to Hell. The idea of Hell is repugnant and terribly hard for me to accept, yet Jesus taught that the wicked would go to a place of eternal punishment. I know God's thoughts are not our thoughts, nor His ways, our ways, and they are above my understanding. I do believe His Word and I know that God is Love, and Just, and Holy, and I trust Him to deal fairly, justly, rightly, mercifully, gracefully, and lovingly with each person, however that may work out. I do understand that the wicked go to everlasting punishment in Hell, and the righteous to everlasting life with Him.

 

[sparkyluv]

God loves everyone, but He's going to send the majority of us to Hell. Sounds real loving, all right.

I kind of figured ol' Sparky would find a soulmate in you, Mike. The two of you think a lot alike. Both of you, for instance, ignore the sad fact that not everybody has had the opportunity to hear and understand the gospel of Jesus Christ. In fact, when I asked Sparky if those who lived before Jesus would also go to Hell, he said this was "a poor example seeing as how they lived prior to Jesus." So, in other words, when he has no good answer, he simply criticises the question.

The simplistic, head-in-the-sand attitude some people have never ceases to amaze me.

At first I didn't know who you were talking about, but then I remembered you asking me that (I'm a girl by the way). It was a stupid question at the time. It had a very sarcastic point to it. You ask a stupid, sarcastic question expect a stupid, sarcastic answer. I remember thinking, "What kind of question is that?!" We were talking about salvation through Jesus Christ and the NT and you asked me about people that lived before Jesus, which had nothing to do with anything, but anyways.

Like I've said I don't know how many times, and I'm not the only one to say this, but God doesn't send anyone to hell. People's sins send people to hell. You want a life apart from God, that's what you get. Don't complain. No, not the whole world knows about Jesus and Jesus said himself that only a few people would find the road that leads to eternal life. That's why Jesus said to go make disciples of all nations and make his name known.

 

[Hacker]

Can you please tell me one thing Sparkeyluv, can you please explain what is going to happen to all the muslims, I mean we are talking about another HUGE religion. Did you ever consider what's been said in the Quaran? Those who don't believe in Allah will also be sent to hell, sounds like scare tactics to me, which seems to coincide with these two religions. Now, who are we supposed to believe, either the Muslims are doomed or the Christians are. Supposively, the QUaran is the latest holy book which entails Mohammid's teachings, meaning that he was the one and only one and he is required of being worshipped NOBODY else which excludes Jesus. I think it's just all bizzare, lol.(meaning both religions of course). ONe or the other is going to hell, and that's a HELL of a lot of people .

 

[sparkyluv]

Can you please tell me one thing Sparkeyluv, can you please explain what is going to happen to all the muslims, I mean we are talking about another HUGE religion. Did you ever consider what's been said in the Quaran? Those who don't believe in Allah will also be sent to hell, sounds like scare tactics to me, which seems to coincide with these two religions. Now, who are we supposed to believe, either the Muslims are doomed or the Christians are. Supposively, the QUaran is the latest holy book which entails Mohammid's teachings, meaning that he was the one and only one and he is required of being worshipped NOBODY else which excludes Jesus. I think it's just all bizzare, lol.(meaning both religions of course). ONe or the other is going to hell, and that's a HELL of a lot of people .

I don't know anything about Islam; all I know is that they don't believe in salvation through Jesus Christ. For no particular reason, I've never done any research on Islam. Til about a year or so ago, the major world religions were never of interest to me. The lesser known and polytheistic religions and philosophies were what I always enjoyed reading about (and still do). I don't have a problem with Muslims or anyone else of any other faith. I believe that the only way to salvation is through Jesus Christ and through Christ alone (John 14:6). I'd love it if we could hang out in heaven for eternity together, but that's not how it is. Like most people, I HATE the notion of Hell. It makes me sad. But me not liking it doesn't change anything. It's still there. There's the answer to your question. If you don't like that response, then that's your own problem.

As far as it being a lot of people not going to heaven, here's my response to that: Matthew 7:13-14

 

[Katzpur]

I'm a girl by the way.

Oops, sorry! I'll make a mental note of that.

It was a stupid question at the time. It had a very sarcastic point to it. You ask a stupid, sarcastic question expect a stupid, sarcastic answer. I remember thinking, "What kind of question is that?!" We were talking about salvation through Jesus Christ and the NT and you asked me about people that lived before Jesus, which had nothing to do with anything, but anyways.

It was not "a stupid, sarcastic question," but you're definitely right about the answer! We were, as you pointed out, talking about salvation through Jesus Christ. Millions of people did live before He did and consequently never heard His gospel. Will they automatically be saved or will they automatically be damned? Or will they be judged according to a different set of rules entirely? If so, where does the Bible outline these rules?

I bring this up because I'm quite literally dumbfounded by the confidence with which you seem to step into the role of judge and jury, condemning billions to eternal torment, simply because they didn't happen to be Christians.

At any rate, you previously stated:

God sends no one to hell, people go to hell because they choose to stray from God. Eternal life or hell? You get a choice. You're in hell because you got what you most desired: a life apart from God. Everyone is given a chance. Jesus died so that EVERYONE would have a chance to have eternal life. Not everyone will obtain it because people choose not to. The option is there, people just choose to ignore it.

I asked how people who lived before Jesus did would have had a chance, how people who lived in parts of the world where Christianity did not exist would have had a chance, and how people who live today in countries where Christianity is strictly forbidden would have had a chance. And to these questions, you answered:

Whether they hear it or not or have heard it or not is beside the point.

You want to talk about "stupid answers," let's start with that one.

You want a life apart from God, that's what you get. Don't complain.

Who's complaining? I fully intend to go to heaven. I just don't expect it to be just me, God, and another couple of dozen people who all believe exactly as I do.

No, not the whole world knows about Jesus and Jesus said himself that only a few people would find the road that leads to eternal life. That's why Jesus said to go make disciples of all nations and make his name known.

And if Christ's disciples don't happen to get to everyone, I guess He just says, "Tough luck, pal." :fork: Would that be about right?

In light of your conclusion that "few will find the road that leads to eternal life," you might want to consider this verse: For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive." (1 Corinthians 15:22). Since this verse states that Christ will bring life to all. So which verse are you going to believe? And why are you going to reject the other one? Maybe there's more to it than you have been led to believe.

 

[Hacker]

It just not logical for a loving GOd to sent the other half of the world to hell and I just don't understand religion like how one thinks theirs is "right" . I feel like a broken record here, and I'm just not finding any logical answers. Oh,and I didn't even mention the other religions, Buddhists, hindus, etc. I just don't see the logic of God sending these people to hell, or condeming them to eternal anguish for ANY reason. SO until I find a belief system that denotes peace, love, equality, and a loving GOd, i'll refrain and remain seated to my own specific beliefs. Just read a little bit of the QUaran, it basically uses similar scare tactics like the bible does, and I just don't understand why there isn't one truth...how could we or Christians ignore the fact the Muslims are brainwashed also into thinking that they are only permitted to worship Allah...or else, they will be sent to hell, how can we on ALL sides think about the logic in that, there is NO logic because it's all scare tactics in my opinion so I can't say that I believe in something cause how in the heck do I know the truth, when both sides think that they are right. So to answer your question, I do follow Christ's teachings and I do believe in a lot of the bibe but Religion just disturbs me, but I'll get over it, it's just a phase I'm going through I guess. Sorry for the ramble.

 

[sparkyluv]

Oops, sorry! I'll make a mental note of that.

It was not "a stupid, sarcastic question," but you're definitely right about the answer! We were, as you pointed out, talking about salvation through Jesus Christ. Millions of people did live before He did and consequently never heard His gospel. Will they automatically be saved or will they automatically be damned? Or will they be judged according to a different set of rules entirely? If so, where does the Bible outline these rules?

I bring this up because I'm quite literally dumbfounded by the confidence with which you seem to step into the role of judge and jury, condemning billions to eternal torment, simply because they didn't happen to be Christians.

At any rate, you previously stated:



I asked how people who lived before Jesus did would have had a chance, how people who lived in parts of the world where Christianity did not exist would have had a chance, and how people who live today in countries where Christianity is strictly forbidden would have had a chance. And to these questions, you answered:

You want to talk about "stupid answers," let's start with that one.

Who's complaining? I fully intend to go to heaven. I just don't expect it to be just me, God, and another couple of dozen people who all believe exactly as I do.

And if Christ's disciples don't happen to get to everyone, I guess He just says, "Tough luck, pal." :fork: Would that be about right?

In light of your conclusion that "few will find the road that leads to eternal life," you might want to consider this verse: For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive." (1 Corinthians 15:22). Since this verse states that Christ will bring life to all. So which verse are you going to believe? And why are you going to reject the other one? Maybe there's more to it than you have been led to believe.

Read verse 23. At the end it says "those who belong to him."

Read John 3:36

 

[joeboonda]

Christ brings life to all, that is all who have believed in Him, if you read the whole chapter it is talking about believing in Christ for salvation. Christ makes it very clear that those who do not believe in Him are already condemned, and as sinners who did not accept Christ's payment for their, they must pay for their own sins in Hell forever. Christ, being infinite and sinless only suffered a finite amount of time, but we being sinners and finite will suffer for eternity according to the Bible. As far as Islam is concerned, God judges each man according to the light that has been given him/her. But, I believe that we can know if a religion is true or false by its teachings. Islam says Jesus did not die on a cross for our sins, Christianity says that is exactly why He came. If one hears the Gospel and the Holy Spirit convicts them it is true, and they reject it, they reject God's Good News, His way of salvation He provided, then they are lost according to the Bible. The Bible is the only book that dares to tell the future and it comes to pass as it said. I trust the Bible, I trust God's wisdom over mine, and over and over and over again it tells us the wicked go to everlasting punishment. And although we may not understand it all completely, I trust God to be fair and just and right in His dealings with man.

 

[Quiddity]

*MOD POST*
Moved to Same Faith Debates.​

 

[Katzpur]

Read verse 23. At the end it says "those who belong to him."

Read John 3:36

Uh... Does this mean you're not going to actually address my questions?

 

[Katzpur]

Christ makes it very clear that those who do not believe in Him are already condemned, and as sinners who did not accept Christ's payment for their, they must pay for their own sins in Hell forever.

I don't believe that people who never heard of Jesus or who lived before Jesus go to Hell.

You're going to have to work with me on this, Mike. You have said that those who don't believe in Christ are already condemned and must pay for their own sins in Hell forever. You also said that you don't believe that people who never heard of Jesus will go to Hell. So, where do you believe these people will go since they obviously don't believe in Jesus Christ? Will God require something else of them instead of a belief in Christ?

 

[Elvendon]

Can you please tell me one thing Sparkeyluv, can you please explain what is going to happen to all the muslims, I mean we are talking about another HUGE religion. Did you ever consider what's been said in the Quaran? Those who don't believe in Allah will also be sent to hell, sounds like scare tactics to me, which seems to coincide with these two religions. Now, who are we supposed to believe, either the Muslims are doomed or the Christians are. Supposively, the QUaran is the latest holy book which entails Mohammid's teachings, meaning that he was the one and only one and he is required of being worshipped NOBODY else which excludes Jesus. I think it's just all bizzare, lol.(meaning both religions of course). ONe or the other is going to hell, and that's a HELL of a lot of people .

Well...

[SIZE=+2]Is Hell exothermic (gives off heat) or endothermic (absorbs heat)?[/SIZE]
College Essay: Just remember, on tests, B.S. does pay off.
The following is an actual question given on a University of Washington chemistry midterm. The answer was so "profound"
that the professor shared it with colleagues, which is why we now have the pleasure of enjoying it as well.
Bonus Question: Is Hell exothermic (gives off heat) or endothermic (absorbs heat)?
Most of the students wrote proofs of their beliefs using Boyle's Law, (gas cools off when it expands and heats up when it is compressed) or some variant. One student, however, wrote the following:
First, we need to know how the mass of Hell is changing with time. So we need to know the rate at which souls are moving into Hell and the rate at which they are leaving. I think that we can safely assume that once a soul gets to Hell, it will not leave. Therefore, no souls are leaving.
As for how many souls are entering Hell, let's look at the different religions that exist in the world today. Some of these religions state that if you are not a member of their religion, you will go to Hell.
Since there are more than one of these religions, and since people do not belong to more than one religion, we can project that all souls go to Hell.
With birth and death rates as they are, we can expect the number of souls in Hell to increase exponentially.
Now, we look at the rate of change of the volume in Hell; because Boyle's Law states that in order for the temperature and pressure in Hell to stay the same, the volume of Hell has to expand as souls are added.
This gives two possibilities:
1. If Hell is expanding at a slower rate than the rate at which souls enter Hell, then the temperature and pressure in Hell will increase until all Hell breaks loose.
2. Of course, if Hell is expanding at a rate faster than the increase of souls in Hell, then the temperature and pressure will drop until Hell freezes over. So which is it?
If we accept the postulate given to me by Ms. Teresa Banyan during my Freshman year--"...that it will be a cold day in Hell before I sleep with you."--and take into account the fact that I still have not succeeded in having sexual relations with her, then #2 cannot be true; and thus I am sure that Hell is exothermic and will not freeze. THE STUDENT RECEIVED THE ONLY "A" GIVEN

http://www.theblackadder.co.uk/jokes/JokeHellEndothermicExothermic.html



In all seriousness - I personally believe that some people will go to hell eternally - people who are determined to turn away from God and everything he represents. Essentially, whether we exist in heaven or hell depends entirely upon our relationship and view of God and what God feels. If we accept and love God, his love for us will be an eternal, warm, blissful bath. If, on the other hand, we reject and despise him, then his love will torture us eternally.

This is, according to the Eastern Orthodox Church which relies upon traditions maintained from before the time the scriptures were written from the first generation of Christians is the original belief of the first disciples and the teaching of Jesus.

Now I want to ask you a question sparkyluv... have you ever spoken in church?

 

[Hacker]

I wonder what Muslims have to say about this because it's also stated in the Koran that if one doesn't believe in Allah, then he/she will be sent to eternal punishment. You don't seem to care!! Not very many people want to take a peek at reality here, these two Holy books include scare tacticts directed at those two MAJOR religions, Christianity and Muslim. Don't you see how Muslims are so devoted to their religion? SOOOOO, who's the winner here? Why is the Koran supposively the updated, edited version of the bible? Allah is supposively the Prophet of God and Jesus was supposed to worship him. The people that ascribe to this belief are BORN into this religion and conditioned by this belief and so are Christians, but there is no logic here because who is the real God? What Holy book is right? Why don't you believe that? I don't believe either Book(about hell) but I''m just curious.

 

[Katzpur]

In all seriousness - I personally believe that some people will go to hell eternally - people who are determined to turn away from God and everything he represents.

Actually, so do I. I just believe it will be a very relative few, and that these will be those souls who, having received a perfect knowledge of Jesus Christ through the Holy Ghost, nevertheless deny Him. These will reject Christ at every conceivable opportunity, even after having come to know He is God's Son and their only hope for salvation. Of course, unlike Eastern Orthodoxy, Mormonism teaches that there will be a time between death and the resurrection when those who did not have the chance to hear of Christ during their lifetimes will have that opportunity. So for us, the salvation of good people who spent their lives as non-Christians is not quite as cast in concrete as it is for fundamentalist Christians. It also strikes me as being a far more just way for God to judge mankind.