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Christians: Joint heirs with jesus - what does it mean?

Discussion in 'Biblical Debates' started by Heneni, Mar 28, 2009.

  1. Heneni

    Heneni Miss Independent

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    Hello.

    I would like to discuss what it means to be a joint heir with jesus.

    1. Who are joint heirs with jesus?
    2. What does a joint heir get?
    3. Can a joint heir loose their inheritance?
    4. What is the scope of the inheritance?
    5 What does one do with the inheritance?
    6. When does a joint heir with jesus inherit?

    I would like to seperate the concept of salvation from joint heirship. Since i dont think that salvation is the recieving of an inheritance, but rather a rescue mission.

    Any thoughts and ideas?

    Heneni
     
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  2. FFH

    FFH Veteran Member

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    Those who are exalted with Jesus Christ and the our Eternal Father in Heaven.
    All that Jesus Christ and the our Eternal Father in Heaven have and possess.
    ?
    Infinite (no end)
    They enjoy it.
    When we are resurrected and stand before Christ to be judged of our works done in this life and are found worthy of exaltation (life with Jesus Christ and our Eternal Father in Heaven).
    Right, salvation and exaltation are two seperate things.

    Some will put on "Garments of Salvation" others will put on "Robes of Righteousness".
    The LDS religion is a religion that offers a person, not just salvation, but exaltation, which is life with Jesus Christ and our Eternal Father in Heaven.
     
    #2 FFH, Mar 28, 2009
    Last edited: Mar 28, 2009
  3. Heneni

    Heneni Miss Independent

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    Thanks FFH! Some interesting answers.

    Im interested in what you said here:

    What would make somebody worthy of exaltation? Can you elaborate a little.

    Heneni
     
  4. FFH

    FFH Veteran Member

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    One must accept the fulness of the gospel of Jesus Christ, which is the fulness of the Father's gospel, as taught in the LDS faith.

    Fulness of the Gospel of Jesus Christ and Our Eternal Father

    1) Faith in the Lord Jesus Christ and His Atoning Sacrifice for Our Sins
    2) Repentance
    3) Baptism by Immersion for the Remission of Sins (through the Aaronic Priesthood)
    4) Laying on of Hands for the Gift of the Holy Ghost (through the Melchizedek Priesthood)

    5) Enter Into Sacred LDS Temple Covenants and Perform the Necessary Saving and Exalting Ordinances

    Mormon.org - Home
    The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints
     
    #4 FFH, Mar 28, 2009
    Last edited: Mar 28, 2009
  5. Ronald

    Ronald Well-Known Member

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    Mt 7:21 ¶ "Not every one who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.

    Mr 3:35 Whoever does the will of God is my brother, and sister, and mother."(Heir)
    2Pe 1:10 Simeon Peter, a servant and apostle of Jesus Christ, To those who have obtained a faith of equal standing with ours in the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ:
    2 May grace and peace be multiplied to you in the knowledge of God and of Jesus our Lord.
    3 His divine power has granted to us all things that pertain to life and godliness, through the knowledge of him who called us to his own glory and excellence,
    4 by which he has granted to us his precious and very great promises, that through these you may escape from the corruption that is in the world because of passion, and become partakers of the divine nature.
    (Salvation)

    5 ¶ For this very reason make every effort to supplement your faith with virtue, and virtue with knowledge,
    6 and knowledge with self-control, and self-control with steadfastness, and steadfastness with godliness,
    7 and godliness with brotherly affection, and brotherly affection with love.
    8 For if these things are yours and abound, they keep you from being ineffective or unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.
    9 For whoever lacks these things is blind and shortsighted and has forgotten that he was cleansed from his old sins.
    10 Therefore, brethren, be the more zealous to confirm your call and election, for if you do this you will never fall;
    (Election) (Doing the will of Y H V H _)
     
  6. mikmik

    mikmik Member

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    1. Who are joint heirs with Jesus?
    (Those willing to submit to the will of God; The righteous; The saints; The children of God)

    Rom 8.14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God. 15 For you did not receive the spirit of bondage again to fear, but you received the Spirit of adoption by whom we cry out, “Abba, Father.” 16 The Spirit Himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God, 17 and if children, then heirs...

    Matt 25.34 Then the King will say to those on His right hand, ‘Come, you blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world...37 “Then the righteous will answer Him...

    Col 1.9 For this reason we also, since the day we heard it, do not cease to pray for you, and to ask that you may be filled with the knowledge of His will in all wisdom and spiritual understanding; 10 that you may walk worthy of the Lord, fully pleasing Him, being fruitful in every good work and increasing in the knowledge of God...

    Rev 22.14 Blessed are those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city.

    2. What does a joint heir get?
    (Just as any human child that well pleases his father, everything that his father has. Our Father is offering us the Kingdom, after all is renewed and perfected, where we would be able to live as members of the family of God, forever.)

    Matt 6.33 But seek first the kingdom of God and His righteousness...

    Rev 11.15 Then the seventh angel sounded: And there were loud voices in heaven, saying, “The kingdoms of this world have become the kingdoms of our Lord and of His Christ...

    Matt 25.34 Then the King will say to those on His right hand, ‘Come, you blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:

    1 Cor 15.50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God...

    3. Can a joint heir loose their inheritance?
    (Yes. We are warned that we can lose our standing, or fall away. We are told to hold tightly to the truth, continue in His ways, always fight the temptations of evil..)

    1 Cor 9. 26 Therefore I run thus: not with uncertainty. Thus I fight: not as one who beats the air. 27 But I discipline my body and bring it into subjection, lest, when I have preached to others, I myself should become disqualified.

    Rev 3.10 Because you have kept My command to persevere... 11 Behold, I am coming quickly! Hold fast what you have, that no one may take your crown.

    Eph 6.11 Put on the whole armor of God, that you may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil.

    Col 1. 23 if indeed you continue in the faith, grounded and steadfast, and are not moved away from the hope of the gospel which you heard...

    4. What is the scope of the inheritance?
    (See question 2)
    (Also see Rev 21 & 22)

    5 What does one do with the inheritance?
    (Finally live as the children of God, with God, forever.)
    Rev 21.3 And I heard a loud voice from heaven saying, “Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and He will dwell with them, and they shall be His people. God Himself will be with them and be their God. 4 And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes; there shall be no more death, nor sorrow, nor crying. There shall be no more pain, for the former things have passed away.” 5 There shall be no night there: They need no lamp nor light of the sun, for the Lord God gives them light. And they shall reign forever and ever.
    (See Rev 21 & 22)

    6. When does a joint heir with Jesus inherit?
    (The resurrections)
    1 Cor 15.51 Behold, I tell you a mystery: We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed— 52 in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

    Philipns 3.20 For our citizenship is in heaven, from which we also eagerly wait for the Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ, 21 who will transform our lowly body that it may be conformed to His glorious body...

    1 Thess 4.16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air.

    Lots more scriptures about these things,, thanks for reading!

    mik
     
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  7. Heneni

    Heneni Miss Independent

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    What exactly does the 'fulness' of the gospel actually mean?

    And...that last part 'as taught in the lds faith' HE HE.... OK?

    I certainly have never been in an LDS temple. I know that kathryn believes that most people will be saved, but if they have to enter into the lds temple to be a joint heir with jesus, wouldnt that exclude most of these same people? Or are they saved, but they just dont get their hands on the goodies. LOL.

    Have we got a situation here where the inheritance has been 'claimed' by a certain faith?

    Hopy you are well. Come back quickly and reply will ya?
    Heneni
     
  8. Heneni

    Heneni Miss Independent

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    Hi Ronald, i see that you are not really new to the forum, but that you have participated before. But since i have not spoken to you before, as far as I can remember, i just want to say hello and welcome back.

    This scripture above raises and interesting point. The difference between entering the kingdom and inheriting it. Etering the kingdom is as a result of salvation. Inheriting it is as a result of joint heirship with jesus.

    heneni
     
  9. Heneni

    Heneni Miss Independent

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    Thanks you for all the scriptures and the detailed answer. Id like to talk about the above part. If we think about what a joint heir means...it means they are ...well they are firmly joint to the other heir in relations to the inheritance. If the one heir in the 'joint' does not inherit, then can the other part of the joint inherit?

    Is it possible to loose our inheritance as long as the inheritance is promised to jesus, who cannot loose it. If he cannot loose it, and we are joint heir with him, then neither can we. If one of the parties in the joint heirship were to for some reason or other, forfeit their inheritance, then the other, being joint to each other, would have to forfeit it as well.

    What you say?
     
  10. S-word

    S-word Well-Known Member

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    [quote=Heneni;1481798]Hello.

    I would like to discuss what it means to be a joint heir with jesus.


    The Old man Adam was submerged in the baptismal waters of the earth, and the new man Enoch arose. It was the spirit of Enoch, who, while the baby Noah was in the hands of the midwife opened its mouth and conversed with the Lord of righteousness.

    And it was the spirit of Enoch, the only man redeemed from the sixth previous world wherein all observers were destroyed by water; who, in the inner most sanctuary of all the descendants of Noah, in this the seventh world, in which all the physical observers are destined to be destroyed by fire, ascended to the ends of this cycle of universal activity and witnessed the universal elements fall as fire into the Great Abyss that is the prison of all the stars and the host of heaven.

    In his ascent within the tent of Mankind, to the ends of all things, He evolved as all the spirits of good people who had fallen asleep in righteousness were gathered to him, and He, the only exception of all mankind, to have entered into the eighth eternal heaven of Light, was the Glorious simulacrum that is the Sacrificial Lamb of God.

    That glorious being of Light, who descended into his dead past to pay the penalty for the sins of the body of mankind in which he had developed, was the Godhead and compilation of the spiritual enclosure of righteous spirits that had been gathered to the cornerstone which was Enoch, and the stone that the builders of the universal church have rejected, turns out to be the most important stone of all.

    That glorious simulacrum (Simulacrum=blueprint-prototype) may have been who Enoch had become, but the man Enoch was the least of the living spirits in that brilliant spiritual enclosure which dies in the process of involution.

    By emptying itself from the least to the greatest, it eventually ceases to exist in the heavenly realm, while those spirits who were cells within the immortal body of the only exception of all mankind to have been given eternal life, are reborn on Earth as the new glorious Temple of Adam, the first born and only begotten son of God: see Luke 3: 38.

    From the Book of Enoch the prophet 37:4, “Till the present day such wisdom has never been given by the lord of Spirits as I have received according to my insight, according to the good pleasure of the ‘Lord of Spirits’ by whom the lot of eternal life has been given to me.”

    The new Kingdom of Godhead which flesh and blood cannot inherit, the new species on earth which will replace the old tabernacle of God, the glorious Temple of light in which the Lord will dwell on earth among, and not within, the body of mankind: the new creation, which girded and clothed in fire, will serve God before the body of Adam (Mankind) into all eternity.

    When Abraham was born, not one of his 10 post-flood ancestors had died and been gathered to the spirit of our indwelling Father ‘the man Enoch’ who was one with Abraham. And it was to Abraham=Enoch, that the great and glorious simulacrum who had descended into his dead past, said, “In multiplying, I will multiply you.”

    To Abraham, the physical manifestation of the invisible indwelling Enoch who was evolving on the spirits of good people who fall asleep in righteousness, was gathered Isaac, then Jacob, etc, etc, (He is the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, he is the God of the living and not of the dead) until Jesus who is seventy generations from Enoch the seventh descendant of God, making Jesus the eleventh of the seventh born sons, and as ten completes the cycle, the eleventh is the first of the new cycle and is seen as the second Adam.

    When Jesus rose from the Baptismal waters as did Enoch, he was filled with the spirit of the least within the glorious simulacrum who dies in the process of involution, (For the first shall be last and the last shall be first,) but Enoch, the godhead of the spiritual enclosure within Jesus, of all the living spirits of good people who had fallen asleep in righteousness that had been gathered to the bosom of Enoch=Abraham, then began to die in the process of involution also, decreasing with the release of each spirit from the least to the greatest, as the man Jesus increased in wisdom, insight and knowledge with each spiritual awakening, until the Christ within him, who was the compilation of all the righteous spirits, had died in order to be reborn on earth as Jesus, the compilation of all the spirits of good people who had fallen asleep in righteousness who had paid the blood price for the sins of their earthly lives.

    Jesus, the compilation of all the righteous spirits from Abraham, was the first fruits to be gathered from the dead Past of the glorious simulacrum who dwells within the eighth eternal heaven of Light.

    With the death of the body of Jesus, he, the least in the enclosure of the glorious simulacrum within the eighth eternal heaven of light, was placed in the heavenly throne of He who dies for the sins of the body in which he developed, as the first, and the Lord and godhead of all those righteous spirits, who were then poured out as fire on all those righteous people who believed the words of the Lord as spoken through his obedient servant, who did, nor spoke one word on his own authority, but only that which he was commanded.

    All those people who had received a share of the hidden Manna, the immortal body of Christ, who were judged in the flesh as all are judged, now in their spiritual existence live as God, the greatest gatherer lives. These are Joint heirs with Jesus who was the first fruits chosen from the body of mankind, the first of many brothers and the cornerstone to the new creation that will dwell on earth as the Kingdom in which God will judge the whole world with justice. Acts 17: 31, “For he has fixed a day in which he shall judge the whole world with justice by means of a man he has chosen. He has given proof of this to everyone by raising that man from death.”

    When each of those living spirits who were the body of Jesus Christ, have gathered the required number of the spirits of good people who have fallen asleep in righteousness and have paid the blood price for the sins of their earthly lives, they like Enoch, will chose an obedient heir in which to be reborn on earth, and they of the first resurrection, will, as the risen body of Christ, take the thrones that have been prepared for them, and as Joint heirs with Jesus, they will Judge the whole world with Justice, clothed and girded with fire, they shall serve God before the body of Adam into all eternity.
     
    #10 S-word, Mar 29, 2009
    Last edited: Mar 29, 2009
  11. mikmik

    mikmik Member

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    Good points, and I thought about that right after I posted this.. there is actually two parts to being an heir. Think about it in an earthly human concept. Let's say I am a parent with 5 kids, and I am pretty wealthy. My children are joint heirs, but they only have the promise of the grand inheritance, not the inheritance itself. Once I die, they receive their inheritance, and that's it, it will not be taken from them, it's a done deal. But while I am alive, they can lose the promise of the inheritance. I love all 5 of them, but, there would be things they could do to be cut off from that promise. If one of my kids becomes an addict let's say, and every dollar goes up his nose despite my exhaustive efforts to help him, I would cut him out. He would be living a lifestyle contradicting my morals, doing whatever it takes to support his habit, which would cause him to be separated from the family in life as well. It would be heart crushing to have to cut him off, but it would be done since I could not be a part of anything that would be enabling him to continue. Now, if later he finally cleaned up and went sober, the promise of the inheritance could be restored. But then again, a few years down the road when he goes back to that destructive lifestyle, he could again be cut off from the promise.

    God is building His family. We are all sinners, and therefore the children of sin. As some of the scriptures I have listed say, there is a way to 'qualify' as the children of God, to walk worthy of the Lord, and then be a part of the promise of the Kingdom. I do not expect to live my life in a way that completely contradicts everything my Father has taught me, basically turning from Him, but then stand there waiting for my share of inheritance when that time comes. There would not be so many warnings about living the way of His will if it was all a done deal at this stage. We are specifically told that we can lose the crown, can be moved away, can become disqualified, and it is a fight that we can only face by putting on the armor of God,, Rom 13.11-14, 2 Cor 6.6-7, Eph 6.10-13, (not being able to fight by our own strength, power and wisdom). With the number of times these things are addressed in the scriptures, I just can't assume that maintaining my standing as a joint heir with the first fruits of all children of God, Jesus Christ, will be a simple process and that there is nothing to worry about here.

    You are right, Jesus will not lose this, because He has lived a life doing only the will of the Father, He has qualified. That's why He is called the Way... if I live the way He has, accepting His perfect example and strive to live by it, I believe that I can then be included in the promise, and will go on the be there as a joint heir with Him. But it is not an all or nothing deal. Scriptures clearly state that there are those that will receive the crown, the inheritance, that will enter the Kingdom.. and there are those that will not. Those that do are the joint heirs. That is the point of most of these scriptures.. there is a goal, a purpose, a reward,, and we should be reaching for that now so that we do not miss out.

    Hope I addressed the points you were making.

    mik
     
  12. FFH

    FFH Veteran Member

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    Fulness (complete) gospel of Jesus Christ and our Eternal Father in Heaven. All other Christian faiths only have a "part" of Jesus Christ's and the Father's gospel.
    It's no more complicated than this.

    Fulness of the Gospel of Jesus Christ and Our Eternal Father

    1) Faith in the Lord Jesus Christ and His Atoning Sacrifice for Our Sins
    2) Repentance
    3) Baptism by Immersion for the Remission of Sins (through the Aaronic Priesthood)
    4) Laying on of Hands for the Gift of the Holy Ghost (through the Melchizedek Priesthood)
    5) Enter Into Sacred LDS Temple Covenants and Perform the Necessary Saving and Exalting Ordinances in a HOLY LDS temple

    Yes

    Yes
    They enjoy many of the goodies, but not all (the fulness) of the goodies (blessings) offered to them.

    Rather, by those who enter into the necessary ordinances and covenants, as performed and explained in the LDS faith, in other words, those who KEEP their covenants and promises to the Lord, as taught and explained in the LDS faith.

    The Lord loves us all and wants the best for all of us. The offers are there, all we have to do is accept them.
     
    #12 FFH, Mar 29, 2009
    Last edited: Mar 29, 2009
  13. Ronald

    Ronald Well-Known Member

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    Thank you for the welcome back message, I haven't been away, just post infrequently.

    As my post pointed out salvation is the entry level, then those who do the will of God become brothers, sisters and mothers, joint heirs.

    Rev 22:14 Blessed are those who wash their robes, that they may have the right to the tree of life and that they may enter the city by the gates.
    Doers of the Torah of God are those who are elected and enter the Holy City.

    Those folks who have a "Let George Do It." syndrome (let Jesus do the hard stuff) they do not do the will of the Father, therefore they are saved but never get to partake of the tree of life.
    Ro 2:13 For it is not the hearers of the law/Torah who are righteous before God, but the doers of the law/Torah who will be justified.
    Jas 1:22 But be doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving yourselves.

    To be blunt, works do not save, but they are required for election!
    These doers of the will of God are Joint heirs with Yeshua and recieve equal shares of all that belong to the Son.

    Shalom U'vrachot
     
  14. Charity

    Charity Let's go racing boys !

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    Jesus has fulfilled his mission for the Father and his inheritance is signed, sealed and delivered by the shedding of His blood....We become joint heirs with Jesus when we as born again believers accept Jesus as our Lord and Savior and follow Him as His own....I believe we can lose our right to that inheritance by walking away from our covenant with God and the Son.....God will not withhold any good thing from us, but he won't force us to partake and that means we have to keep the faith, and stand firm in our commitment to God.....The key being to those that endure to the end will be the partakers.....
     
  15. S-word

    S-word Well-Known Member

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    Jn.5:24 (RSV) Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears my word, (which in fact are not my words, but the words of our indwelling father, to whom I am an obedient servant and do nor say anything other than that which I am commanded) and believes him who sent me (in his name,in order that through me, his obedient servant, he might reveal to the world, himself and the great sacrifice that he is making for the salvation of the body of mankind in which he developed) has eternal life; That person (who believes the Lord, through me, his obedient servant,) does not come into judgement, but has passed from death to life.
     
  16. Charity

    Charity Let's go racing boys !

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    According to the Bible there will be a judgement after death....
    Judas walked with Jesus but at the time of his betrayal do you think he would have received his inheirtance? And Peter even though he was the one to whom Jesus said, "Upon this Rock I will build my church", do you think at the time of his denial that he would have recieved his inheirtance? Or would it have been after he was restored and renewed and realized what he had done.....Then there was King David who was called a Man after God's own heart....but he too, sinned and after he lived through much anguish and heartache was finally restored by God....In the span of time whether long or short that someone turns from God I believe they are in danger of losing that inheirtance......:shrug:
     
  17. Ronald

    Ronald Well-Known Member

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    AAAAHA! My tagline modified.

    Charity, Don't you believe Yeshua? "That person does not come into judgement."
    The "Intermidiates/those w/a form of godliness, are judged at resurrection. The wicked/ungodly are already judged also.

    Shalom
    (read my tagline)
     
  18. Heneni

    Heneni Miss Independent

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    Ok i see what you are saying. We have the promise of an inheritance, we dont have the inheritance yet. But if god promised something is he able to withdraw his promise? What is the promise based on? IF we are children of god then we are heirs according to his promise. So i think that if we are children of god, we do care about how we conduct our lives because we care about god.



    Ok, lol, god is not going to die.



    I would think that jesus is the one who has secured the inheritance. If we are joint heirs with jesus, then as long as the inheritance is his, it is ours.

    I'm hoping to seperate the concept of salvation from the inheritance. Shall we for the purpose of this discussion talk about the sons who are indeed saved? Do we work for the inheritance? Or did the father 'work' for it? Did jesus work for his inheritance? Or does he recieve it because the father loves him, and gives it to him. The bible says...dont worry, its the fathers good pleasure to give us the kingdom. Do we have to work for it? What i do think we will have to do when we recieve it, is be managers of that estate. That could be the work we do. But as long as we are underaged we are trained up to be good managers of the estate that we are going to inherit.

    Heneni
     
  19. Heneni

    Heneni Miss Independent

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    Hi there!

    I understand your point of view. Salvation is a gift. The inheritance must be worked for.

    I would agree with you, if we can agree that the work that we have to do to inherit the kingdom, is to work out our salvation with fear and trembling, thereby having a healthy fear of god, which is the beginning of wisdom and wisdom is what we need to manage the estate that we are too inherit. So the work that we have to do to inherit the kingdom, is we have to let god do his transformation work within us, so that we can grow up to inherit. In other words, there is rigorous training involved in order to inherit the kingdom. And that training is Gods work in us. And we do need to co-operate!

    heneni
     
  20. Heneni

    Heneni Miss Independent

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    Hi charity! How you sweets?

    The inheritance is joint. Jesus has it, and we have it. Its all ours, and His. All things belong to us. It is all ours. As it is all his. We have not come of age yet in order to inherit the estate. But when we have, we shall inherit it.

    Now we do feel that some might inherit more than others. The inheritance is shared between all parties, but the management of the inheritance might be distributed unequally.

    The managment of the estate depends on how faithful we were to god here on earth. If He could trust us with little, then surely he can trust us with much more. I think that is what will determine what becomes ours to oversee.But EVERYTHING will be yours, mine, and jesus' collectively. Responsibility for everything is disributed unequally.

    What you say?

    God bless
    Heneni
     
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