MSizer
MSizer
How does a drop of water remember it is an ocean?
--Some person
Sorry, I can't read minds. How is this supposed to answer my question?
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How does a drop of water remember it is an ocean?
--Some person
As a person who wants to be a doctor should you just be allowed to go out and practice medicine without first working, learning, studying and preparing yourself to achieve the ultimate goal....No matter if you stop off in Seattle you still haven't arrived at the destination until you persevere to reach your goal....
Yes but you're missing my point. To become a doctor I need to gain much information in order to be skilled enough to practice. God is supposedly all powerful and created us the way he wished us to be. Why waste time with this life? Why force us to earn it? Once in heaven, will there be a threat of being kicked out again? Why not? Probably because the "earthly rules" won't apply in heaven. So why have earth at all? Why not just jump right to heaven where nobody needs to earn their way in, nobody suffers hunger or victimization, and nobody ends up in hell? Why not just go right to that part?
The point is that your growing and learning all along the way, your missing the point.
It's like runners working toward the big race. It's fun to see who will stick in there with the training and who will fall by the way. We are all given certain abilities it's up to us to use the abilities.
You don't think we all should be given something for nothing do you?
Are you going to crawl around and try to grab the leg of some runner who has run the race and let them try to drag you in? I don't think so, it don't work that way.
The point is that your growing and learning all along the way, your missing the point.
It's like runners working toward the big race. It's fun to see who will stick in there with the training and who will fall by the way. We are all given certain abilities it's up to us to use the abilities.
You don't think we all should be given something for nothing do you?
Are you going to crawl around and try to grab the leg of some runner who has run the race and let them try to drag you in? I don't think so, it don't work that way.
...It's fun to see who will stick in there with the training and who will fall by the way...
What makes you think he hasn't?Why didn't he just put us right in heaven from the beginning?
What makes you think he hasn't?
Are you familiar with the myth of the separation from the Garden?
What makes you think he hasn't?
Are you familiar with the myth of the separation from the Garden?
There was an interesting discussion on it a few years ago that you might enjoy reviewing.Catholic doctrine.
No. I tried googling it but nothing came up excepte "the separation of church and state is a communist myth....blah blah blah." Not that I'm opposed to hearing about it, but I don't think it will apply to this tread though, as I have been clear that I'm challenging the catholic doctrine (and as it happens of a few other churches who happen to be in agreement with the catholic enterpretation of the matter).
While mental gymnastics can be fun, it ultimately boils down that I'm a finite human being trying to understand the ways of the infinite. I don't know why God decided to work things out the way things have been. I mean, couldn't a perfect being like God have found a way to prevent Jesus's death and still provide a way for salvation that traditional Christianity teaches? In my mind I think it would be possible, but I also think that when I die and I enter Heaven and have knowledge of what was impossible to fathom here on earth, maybe it will make perfect sense. I suppose that's why things like faith are central to the Christian life. One of the main themes in the Bible for me seems to be God saying, "Look...I know you don't understand my ways because they are not your ways, but trust me on this one and things will turn out OK for you in the end".
The other answer I have is that somehow in God's loving nature He found it better to have a creation that had the option of choosing to believe rather than being created to believe. This is why I believe the event in Eden is particularly powerful. We were in perfect harmony with God, nature, and each other. It was the wrong choice that threw everything out of wack and we've been dealing with those consequences ever since. Angels were created with the sole purpose of worshiping God. We were created with the choice. Of course, other's version and their understanding of Christianity may vary. This happens to be what I came to my head in the 4 minutes of pondering.
I don't think it's fun to watch people fall, I've done it myself, many times. I am only human and I don't always stay on the right road. I've taken many detours so to speak. When I make those mistakes, I get up try to get on the right road in the right direction.BTW, I find it very much uncharitable that you think it's fun to watch some people fall by the way side. What kind of morals make that justifiable? Do you stand at the finish line with Jesus and laugh at those who veer off in the wrong direction?
I've never understood how god supposedly loves us and wants us to join him in his family in heaven, yet he put us on earth first with the capacity to fail, for which we could potentially loose the priviledge of joining him.
I doesn't make sense. Why didn't he just put us right in heaven from the beginning?
You've got a point. If God is omnipotent, as Christians believe Him to be, He could have done pretty much anything He wanted. But to continue on with my perspective...Well, thanks Katzpur for actually answering the question. I don't buy it as an explanation, as it still is seems completely futile, since god could have just made us to appreciate him in the first place. It seems to me that it's as if you wanted you fence to be biege, so you painted it white and hoped that over time the white paint would become dull and eventually be beige. Why not just paint it beige? That would solve the problem right there. Every board would be beige, rather than risking having some which turn brown instead.
I'm not saying that the bible is of no more value than a comic book.
Is there a reason why comic books are being grossly misrepresented?
I've never understood how god supposedly loves us and wants us to join him in his family in heaven, yet he put us on earth first with the capacity to fail, for which we could potentially loose the priviledge of joining him.
I doesn't make sense. Why didn't he just put us right in heaven from the beginning?
Are you suggesting that in Heaven we are robots programmed to do exactly as we must?Why didn't he just put us right in heaven from the beginning?
MY COMMENTS: I can only give my understanding.
Yes, I've thought something like that...why He didn't create us as robots to do exactly as programmed?
But, He didn't.
Bick writes: MY COMMENTS: I can only give my understanding.
Yes, I've thought something like that...why He didn't create us as robots to do exactly as programmed?
Bick writes: But, He didn't. We are made in His Image, after His likeness. We are rational, thinking, sensate beings, capable of making descisions, etc.
Bick writes: I believe before all this, God in love, knew that we could love Him the greatest after we, starting with Adam, fell into sin, missing the mark, and though, perhaps capable of seeking God, yet would not, for death was in us.
But God, who is our Saviour, sent His only Son to be the sacrifice for the sins of the world.