Christians and the age of accountability?

[CG Didymus]

I'm worried about how Fundamental Christians deal with 1st graders being shot. There' s always the question of why would a loving God allow it, but now that it's done what is God going to do. Most religions probably have provisions for such a thing. I was raised Catholic, so I was baptized to get rid of the taint of original sin. What do sola scriptura Protestant Fundamentals do? All people, including kids, are supposedly under the curse of sin. All people need to believe in Jesus to be cleansed of that sin and any sin that they committed. That taint, it is believed, comes at conception doesn't it? Yet, I don't know of any human being, let alone a Fundamental Christian, that would condemn them any of the kids that died in the shooting last week. Would the Christian God?
As far as accountability goes, I told lies, got angry, got in fights and new those things were wrong at a very early age. My parents punished me for doing them and I understood why I was being punished. They never told me about Jesus, however, and the supposed greater sin of not knowing Jesus and his plan for salvation. It wasn't a question of not understanding it; it was not being told about it.
What do Fundamentalists do then? If there is an age, what is that age? Does it go for all children of all religions? If the cut-off time is eight years old or ten, what does God do with the kid that dies the next day? That kid missed getting a free pass by one day? What about an Islamic or Hindu child, or even an atheist child, do they get to go to the Christian heaven by default?
If the Christian God is in control, I wonder how many people he lost this last week? I wonder how many people were getting all religious because it was almost Christmas? They were feeling guilty about not going to church, for not giving their tithes and offerings, for not living a good and decent Christian life. What do they feel now? For you born-againers, that's your God out there doing this, how do you justify his actions? Is there an age of accountability? Because at sixty-three, I still don't know what's going on. Am I going to be condemned for questioning what a few, extreme believers in Jesus tell me is true?

 

[InChrist]

I'm worried about how Fundamental Christians deal with 1st graders being shot. There' s always the question of why would a loving God allow it, but now that it's done what is God going to do. Most religions probably have provisions for such a thing. I was raised Catholic, so I was baptized to get rid of the taint of original sin. What do sola scriptura Protestant Fundamentals do? All people, including kids, are supposedly under the curse of sin. All people need to believe in Jesus to be cleansed of that sin and any sin that they committed. That taint, it is believed, comes at conception doesn't it? Yet, I don't know of any human being, let alone a Fundamental Christian, that would condemn them any of the kids that died in the shooting last week. Would the Christian God?
As far as accountability goes, I told lies, got angry, got in fights and new those things were wrong at a very early age. My parents punished me for doing them and I understood why I was being punished. They never told me about Jesus, however, and the supposed greater sin of not knowing Jesus and his plan for salvation. It wasn't a question of not understanding it; it was not being told about it.
What do Fundamentalists do then? If there is an age, what is that age? Does it go for all children of all religions? If the cut-off time is eight years old or ten, what does God do with the kid that dies the next day? That kid missed getting a free pass by one day? What about an Islamic or Hindu child, or even an atheist child, do they get to go to the Christian heaven by default?
If the Christian God is in control, I wonder how many people he lost this last week? I wonder how many people were getting all religious because it was almost Christmas? They were feeling guilty about not going to church, for not giving their tithes and offerings, for not living a good and decent Christian life. What do they feel now? For you born-againers, that's your God out there doing this, how do you justify his actions? Is there an age of accountability? Because at sixty-three, I still don't know what's going on. Am I going to be condemned for questioning what a few, extreme believers in Jesus tell me is true?

Speaking for myself, born-again believers are as grieved as anyone else over the awful event which recently occurred taking the lives of little children and others. As far as the eternal destiny of 1st graders who are shot I don't think you need to worry about how fundamental Christians deal with it, because they have no say in the matter. God who created life in the first place deals with the issues of life, death, and eternity. I believe the scriptures show that God cherishes all children and any child that dies who is not at the maturity level of being capable of understanding the ramifications of sin or need for a Savior is immediately in the presence of Jesus is heaven. I believe there is an age of accountability, but it is not any particular age and I'm sure varies with each individual.

I don't think God condemns anyone for asking sincere questions. but questions which are only posed with the intent to mock or attack the character of God are a different matter. God knows the difference and the motives of one's thoughts and does not condemn those who honestly seek real answers.




Where do I find the age of accountability in the Bible? What happens to babies and young children when they die?

 

[CG Didymus]

Thanks InChrist, Christians like you are a blessing to the world. I understand why Fundamentalists take such an extreme "Bible only" stance and take such a literal interpretation, but they paint themselves into so many corners with their form of Christianity. But, what do you do with that eight year old or ten year old that belongs to another religion? There own religion makes provisions for that child. That religion has answers that brings meaning and comfort to the parents. What comfort is there if the child goes to the Christian heaven and finds out his older brothers and sisters and his parents are condemned for not believing in Jesus the correct way?

 

[InChrist]

Thanks InChrist, Christians like you are a blessing to the world. I understand why Fundamentalists take such an extreme "Bible only" stance and take such a literal interpretation, but they paint themselves into so many corners with their form of Christianity. But, what do you do with that eight year old or ten year old that belongs to another religion? There own religion makes provisions for that child. That religion has answers that brings meaning and comfort to the parents. What comfort is there if the child goes to the Christian heaven and finds out his older brothers and sisters and his parents are condemned for not believing in Jesus the correct way?

The biblical scriptures show there is one God, Creator of heaven and earth who has provided one way for all people to reach one heaven, through Christ the Savior. I also see the good news of the scriptures shows that everyone's sin, (no matter what culture or religion they are born into) was paid for by Christ. If Christ is the way, the truth, and the life as the scriptures say and God who loves humanity and desires all to be saved as the scriptures say, also, then God gives the opportunity for each person and each child at some point to realize this and accept of reject Christ. I don't know exactly when or how God gives each person this opportunity, but I know He does and I believe He often gives people many more than just one opportunity.

After these things I looked, and behold, a great multitude which no one could number, of all nations, tribes, peoples, and tongues, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, with palm branches in their hands, and crying out with a loud voice, saying, “Salvation belongs to our God who sits on the throne, and to the Lamb!” Revelation 7:9-10

 

[CG Didymus]

Yes, InChrist, salvation for your sins is there for them that belief in Jesus, but is there "an age of accountability" loophole for children?

 

[Walkntune]

Speaking for myself, born-again believers are as grieved as anyone else over the awful event which recently occurred taking the lives of little children and others. As far as the eternal destiny of 1st graders who are shot I don't think you need to worry about how fundamental Christians deal with it, because they have no say in the matter. God who created life in the first place deals with the issues of life, death, and eternity. I believe the scriptures show that God cherishes all children and any child that dies who is not at the maturity level of being capable of understanding the ramifications of sin or need for a Savior is immediately in the presence of Jesus is heaven. I believe there is an age of accountability, but it is not any particular age and I'm sure varies with each individual.

I don't think God condemns anyone for asking sincere questions. but questions which are only posed with the intent to mock or attack the character of God are a different matter. God knows the difference and the motives of one's thoughts and does not condemn those who honestly seek real answers.




Where do I find the age of accountability in the Bible? What happens to babies and young children when they die?

Jesus does not condemn children. He didn't even condemn the adulterous woman who was going to be stoned and was guilty by the law. He did not come into the world to condemn the world.
Mathew 18 King James Version (KJV)
18 At the same time came the disciples unto Jesus, saying, Who is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven?
2 And Jesus called a little child unto him, and set him in the midst of them,
3 And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven.

 

[Pegg]

I'm worried about how Fundamental Christians deal with 1st graders being shot. There' s always the question of why would a loving God allow it, but now that it's done what is God going to do. Most religions probably have provisions for such a thing. I was raised Catholic, so I was baptized to get rid of the taint of original sin. What do sola scriptura Protestant Fundamentals do? All people, including kids, are supposedly under the curse of sin. All people need to believe in Jesus to be cleansed of that sin and any sin that they committed. That taint, it is believed, comes at conception doesn't it? Yet, I don't know of any human being, let alone a Fundamental Christian, that would condemn them any of the kids that died in the shooting last week. Would the Christian God?
As far as accountability goes, I told lies, got angry, got in fights and new those things were wrong at a very early age. My parents punished me for doing them and I understood why I was being punished. They never told me about Jesus, however, and the supposed greater sin of not knowing Jesus and his plan for salvation. It wasn't a question of not understanding it; it was not being told about it.
What do Fundamentalists do then? If there is an age, what is that age? Does it go for all children of all religions? If the cut-off time is eight years old or ten, what does God do with the kid that dies the next day? That kid missed getting a free pass by one day? What about an Islamic or Hindu child, or even an atheist child, do they get to go to the Christian heaven by default?
If the Christian God is in control, I wonder how many people he lost this last week? I wonder how many people were getting all religious because it was almost Christmas? They were feeling guilty about not going to church, for not giving their tithes and offerings, for not living a good and decent Christian life. What do they feel now? For you born-againers, that's your God out there doing this, how do you justify his actions? Is there an age of accountability? Because at sixty-three, I still don't know what's going on. Am I going to be condemned for questioning what a few, extreme believers in Jesus tell me is true?

personally i think God looks at each of us on an individual basis. A child of 10 may be more mature minded then another child of 15. God knows us all very well and I think only he really knows when a child is of an age where they understand, and have control, of their own actions.

In the end, it really comes down to our own consciences....its that voice that tells us if something we are about to do is wrong. The inner conscience is what causes us to pause before we act...its an inbuilt mechanism to help us identify right from wrong. If the act is something we do not want anyone to see us do, then it is because the conscience is telling us it is wrong. If we ignore that conscience, God knows it and he will hold us accountable. So it goes this way with children also...as they mature their conscience begins to work in the same way, each in its own time.

 

[RJ50]

Speaking for myself, born-again believers are as grieved as anyone else over the awful event which recently occurred taking the lives of little children and others. As far as the eternal destiny of 1st graders who are shot I don't think you need to worry about how fundamental Christians deal with it, because they have no say in the matter. God who created life in the first place deals with the issues of life, death, and eternity. I believe the scriptures show that God cherishes all children and any child that dies who is not at the maturity level of being capable of understanding the ramifications of sin or need for a Savior is immediately in the presence of Jesus is heaven. I believe there is an age of accountability, but it is not any particular age and I'm sure varies with each individual.

I don't think God condemns anyone for asking sincere questions. but questions which are only posed with the intent to mock or attack the character of God are a different matter. God knows the difference and the motives of one's thoughts and does not condemn those who honestly seek real answers.




Where do I find the age of accountability in the Bible? What happens to babies and young children when they die?

The Bible doesn't support your comments at all, the deity featured there doesn't give a monkey's about children or anyone else for that matter!

 

[JayJayDee]

What do Fundamentalists do then? If there is an age, what is that age? Does it go for all children of all religions? If the cut-off time is eight years old or ten, what does God do with the kid that dies the next day? That kid missed getting a free pass by one day?

I am not a fundamentalist, though I do consider myself a Bible believing Christian.

Do we really think God is like what you describe? I have often shaken my head at the notion that humans can believe that an unbaptized infant could be consigned to a place of punishment for something that wasn't it's fault. How can a baby be held responsible for the omission of something God never even commanded? Can someone tell me where infant baptism is even suggested in scripture?

How does God feel about children? It was he who purposed for them to be born.

How did he feel about the children born into the nation of Israel? He made sure that parents raised them to love their God. (Deut 6:6, 7)
Contrast that with how he dealt with the children that were destroyed in the flood along with their wicked parents? (Gen 7:22, 23)

We can get all carried away with the injustice of it all, or we can see life and death from God's perspective. Do we realize that God can restore life as easily as he created it? Does death actually mean that God is cruel? Does the fact that God does not prevent death mean that he doesn't care? Nothing could be further from the truth.

FACT: We all die.

In the garden, the devil said we would be better off listening to him. Eve did and it was disastrous for her. Adam sided with his disobedient wife and as a result, all they could hand on to their children was sin and death. Both carried the gene of death and passed it on to every generation after them. Death comes to all of us sooner or later, young or old we can all expect to die, whether from sickness, aging, crime, war or accident.

Why do we treat death as though it shouldn't happen? Even though we all die, death is still seen as a foreign and unwelcome visitor in our lives. There is a good reason for this.
It wasn't supposed to happen. But now that death had been unleashed upon mankind, God implemented a plan to get life back for us.

Death to God is not the insurmountable problem that it is for us. If we elevate our perspective, we get God's view of things.

All death is reversible. Jesus demonstrated that he can awaken the dead as easily as one is awakened from sleep. (John 11:11; John 5:28, 29)

Is there an age of accountability? Yes! but it is a very individual thing. It would depend on the maturity of the child and how well he/she has been instructed by their parents, and how well they responded to that instruction.

What about an Islamic or Hindu child, or even an atheist child, do they get to go to the Christian heaven by default?

Paul wrote..."If any brother has an unbelieving wife, and yet she is agreeable to dwelling with him, let him not leave her; and a woman who has an unbelieving husband, and yet he is agreeable to dwelling with her, let her not leave her husband. For the unbelieving husband is sanctified in relation to [his] wife, and the unbelieving wife is sanctified in relation to the brother; otherwise, your children would really be unclean, but now they are holy."

Paul indicates that God views the children as an extension of their parents. If the parents are not believers and the children are young, they are classified the same as their parents. If the children are in a religiously divided household (like Timothy was) then the children are 'sanctified' in relation to the believing parent.

The children who lost their lives in the flood were taken along with their parents for that reason. It doesn't mean that they are forever lost.

If the Christian God is in control, I wonder how many people he lost this last week?

God is in control of everything but he has handed the reigns of the human race over to the devil in order for him to prove that what he said was true. (Luke 4:5, 6) He said God was a liar and that humans would be better of knowing "good and bad" for themselves. Was he right? Has that knowledge brought us anything beneficial?

I wonder how many people were getting all religious because it was almost Christmas? They were feeling guilty about not going to church, for not giving their tithes and offerings, for not living a good and decent Christian life. What do they feel now?

The "Christian" God is not one who is impressed by meaningless performance. He sees the heart and knows who loves him with "their whole heart, mind and soul".

"Going to church" is not a meaningless duty that one is forced to perform against their will. Or like some kind of insurance against going to hell. Worshipping God should be the thing all Christians WANT to do because they love God, not because they are frightened that if they don't, he'll send them to spend eternity in punishment. That is a church teaching, not a Bible teaching.

that's your God out there doing this, how do you justify his actions? Is there an age of accountability? Because at sixty-three, I still don't know what's going on. Am I going to be condemned for questioning what a few, extreme believers in Jesus tell me is true?

I am not a youngster either CG Didymus, and if God didn't want us to ask questions, he wouldn't have given us inquiring minds. God has told us all about his purpose in the Bible. It is a story that begins in Genesis and ends in Revelation with the 'righteous' attaining life by making the right choices.

Ask whatever you like....you deserve answers.

 

[CG Didymus]

Hey JayJayDee, are you sure you're an oldtimer? That name sounds like you're a rapper. And a rapper that is Christian and with an Aussie accent? That would be awesome! But you said, "If the parents are not believers and the children are young, they are classified the same as their parents." So are you saying that the kids would not go to the Christian version of heaven but would go with their parents to where all non-Christians go? Which I assume is hell?
One problem is that most other religions don't have the Christian "born into sin" situation. The child is born innocent and is judged by what they do with their lives. I even like a Hindu-type of explanation that could tentatively allow all of us to experience life as the shooter, the children, the parents, etc. In that scenario we would go to the spiritual realm and have to tell ourselves we're sorry for shooting ourselves, and we, as the victims, would have to forgive ourselves as the perpetrator.
I have to agree with Pleinmont in his response to InChrist's comment that he believes that "the scriptures show that God cherishes all children." Pleinmont said, "The Bible doesn't support your comments at all, the deity featured there doesn't give a monkey's about children or anyone else for that matter!"
Cities being blown up, the world flooded, all the men, woman, and children in Jericho killed? For the Christian it is easy to say, "God has a good reason." To those of us that don't believe or are trying to examine religious truth, it is impossible to judge the God of the Bible as a nice, loving being.
I think this "age of accountability" loophole is merely an attempt by some Christians to excuse God for killing or allowing kids to be brutally killed. If it were a rock-solid doctrine then God and Jesus should have made it perfectly clear and said, "On the day you're old enough to understand that your first parents sinned and passed it on to you, on that day, you'll be accountable. You need to believe on my son Jesus at that very moment or face the possibility of me allowing you to be killed and being sent to hell forever. You don't even want to risk it. Believe now, follow my commandments and all will be fine. If I decide to have someone kill you, you can then rest assured I will admit you into heaven to be with me forever."
Like I said, I don't mind if Christians make amendments to their beliefs, just admit it. But if they say "Bible only" and pretend they don't change and adapt their beliefs to the changing times, then I can't take them or their interpretation of the Bible seriously.

 

[JayJayDee]

Hey JayJayDee, are you sure you're an oldtimer? That name sounds like you're a rapper. And a rapper that is Christian and with an Aussie accent? That would be awesome!

I don't consider myself an "oldtimer" but there are those who do.
Youth is wasted on the young IMO.

I am far from a rapper but the Aussie accent is authentic. JayJay was my nickname as a kid.

But you said, "If the parents are not believers and the children are young, they are classified the same as their parents." So are you saying that the kids would not go to the Christian version of heaven but would go with their parents to where all non-Christians go? Which I assume is hell?

No. I don't believe in either of those destinations as the churches teach them. The Bible teaches something entirely different. Rather than being an "either/or" arrangement, there is so much more to what these designations mean.

We all actually go to the Bible's "hell"...does that surprise you? But "hell" is nothing like what you have been led to believe. It is simply the grave. In Hebrew it is "sheol" and in Greek, "hades". Neither of these places involve any kind of consciousness or suffering. They are a place to "rest in peace". (Eccl 9:5, 6, 10)

Everyone who dies goes to the same place. The difference is, who God wakes up in the resurrection. Jesus said he was going to call the dead out of their graves. They were going to hear his voice and "come out", just as he did with Lazarus. (John 5:28, 29; John 11:11) In order to be called out from the grave, people would still have to be in them. The God of the Bible never tortured anyone for any reason. He is not a fiend. Much of the Bible's language is symbolic, not literal.

"Gehenna" (often misleadingly translated "hell") is a prime example of this.
Gehenna was the Valley of Hinnom outside Jerusalem's walls. It was the city's garbage dump where fires were kept burning day and night by the addition of brimstone (sulfur) to consume the refuse. The carcasses of dead animals and the bodies of executed criminals were cast into the flames to consume their bodies. These were considered unworthy of a descent burial and therefore unworthy of a resurrection. It was considered by Jesus' Jewish audience that having no memorial tomb, meant not being remembered by God in the resurrection. It was not more sinister than that.

One problem is that most other religions don't have the Christian "born into sin" situation. The child is born innocent and is judged by what they do with their lives. I even like a Hindu-type of explanation that could tentatively allow all of us to experience life as the shooter, the children, the parents, etc. In that scenario we would go to the spiritual realm and have to tell ourselves we're sorry for shooting ourselves, and we, as the victims, would have to forgive ourselves as the perpetrator.

That is one way of looking at things, but it has nothing to do with the Bible's message. It always saddens me when people turn away from Christianity to find kinder explanations for the way life is.....all because of what the churches teach. They will answer for that, but people who really want to find the God of the Bible will look deeper and realize that what they have been taught all their lives at church, is a bunch of lies.

When the foretold apostasy occurred early in Christianity's history, Christ left the building! He was with the "wheat" but he never supported the horrendous actions of the "weeds".

I have to agree with Pleinmont in his response to InChrist's comment that he believes that "the scriptures show that God cherishes all children." Pleinmont said, "The Bible doesn't support your comments at all, the deity featured there doesn't give a monkey's about children or anyone else for that matter!"

It's nothing like that. All that God does has a higher purpose. The issues raised in Eden have very broad implications, not just for humankind, but for all of God's intelligent creatures. This is soooo NOT just about us. The first rebel was not human. Think bigger.

Cities being blown up, the world flooded, all the men, woman, and children in Jericho killed? For the Christian it is easy to say, "God has a good reason." To those of us that don't believe or are trying to examine religious truth, it is impossible to judge the God of the Bible as a nice, loving being.

Everything in the Bible is pictorial, designed to teach us something. We can look at the surface of things and be appalled, or we can ask what God was demonstrating by his actions?
Think deeper. Physical death is not the worst thing that can happen to us. We are all on death row from the moment we are born. It is not the manner of death but the restoration of life once all the issues are settled that matters.

This is God's promise....“For here I am creating new heavens and a new earth; and the former things will not be called to mind, neither will they come up into the heart" (Isa 65:17)

When 'all things are made new', there will be no recall of any of the events that caused us to grieve.

The apostle John backed that up in Revelation 21:2-5...
"I saw also the holy city, New Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God and prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. With that I heard a loud voice from the throne say: “Look! The tent of God is with mankind, and he will reside with them, and they will be his peoples. And God himself will be with them. And he will wipe out every tear from their eyes, and death will be no more, neither will mourning nor outcry nor pain be anymore. The former things have passed away.
And the One seated on the throne said: “Look! I am making all things new.” Also, he says: “Write, because these words are faithful and true”.

These are the promises God makes in the Bible. They fill us with hope...not despair.
The rule of God's kingdom (New Jerusalem) will bring joy and peace to the earth, eliminating all causes of grief and suffering.

I think this "age of accountability" loophole is merely an attempt by some Christians to excuse God for killing or allowing kids to be brutally killed. If it were a rock-solid doctrine then God and Jesus should have made it perfectly clear and said, "On the day you're old enough to understand that your first parents sinned and passed it on to you, on that day, you'll be accountable. You need to believe on my son Jesus at that very moment or face the possibility of me allowing you to be killed and being sent to hell forever. You don't even want to risk it. Believe now, follow my commandments and all will be fine. If I decide to have someone kill you, you can then rest assured I will admit you into heaven to be with me forever."

None of that is Bible teaching...it is church teaching. Please don't confuse the two.

Jewish parents were under obligation to teach their children......
“Listen, O Israel: Jehovah our God is one Jehovah. And you must love Jehovah your God with all your heart and all your soul and all your vital force. And these words that I am commanding you today must prove to be on your heart; and you must inculcate them in your son and speak of them when you sit in your house and when you walk on the road and when you lie down and when you get up. And you must tie them as a sign upon your hand, and they must serve as a frontlet band between your eyes; and you must write them upon the doorposts of your house and on your gates" (Deut 6:4-9)

Christian parents were likewise commanded to instruct their children in God's ways.... "Children, be obedient to your parents in union with [the] Lord, for this is righteous: “Honor your father and [your] mother”; which is the first command with a promise: “That it may go well with you and you may endure a long time on the earth.” And you, fathers, do not be irritating your children, but go on bringing them up in the discipline and mental-regulating of Jehovah". (Eph 6:1-4)

Since there is no "heaven and hell" as portrayed by Christendom, the parents in this case taught their children about God's requirements and the importance of 'living' them. Life and death are surely involved, but not "heaven and hell" as opposing destinations.

Like I said, I don't mind if Christians make amendments to their beliefs, just admit it. But if they say "Bible only" and pretend they don't change and adapt their beliefs to the changing times, then I can't take them or their interpretation of the Bible seriously.

Don't confuse "Christians" with promoters of erroneous church doctrine.
Never the twain shall meet!

The Bible's message is awesome when you ditch the doctrines of false Christianity.

Something to think about

 

[CG Didymus]

Hey thanks JayJayDee. There's several good, knowledgeable Christians I listen to and most have some kind of different view on what is true Christianity. I'll add you to that list.This age of accountability thing isn't something that I heard of until the Left Behind movie. With the recent shootings of the Ist graders, I think Christians, meaning the Evangelical/Fundamental types, should be clear on what they believe. Does their God condemn them or give them a free pass? Since they believe we are all born guilty and need to accept Jesus to be saved from our deserved punishment of eternal hell-fire, then how can they say, "Oh, except for children that don't know better."Thanks again for taking the time to answer my questions.

 

[JayJayDee]

You are most welcome.

Having a clear understanding about what the Bible teaches and what it does not, helps me to understand why the world is the way it is, and why man can't ever seem to fix it.