Muffled
Jesus in me
I believe you have managed to pack a lot of falsehood in a short post.
-
Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.
Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:- Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
- Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
- Access to private conversations with other members.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!
Christianity is a crapshoot
- Thread starter roger1440
- Start date
I believe you have managed to pack a lot of falsehood in a short post.
Muffled
Jesus in me
I believe what I am saying is that it is not a good idea to wait for God to save you if He is waiting for you to save yourself. It is like the man on his roof in a flood deciding not to take the salvation available to him and drowning.
Muffled
Jesus in me
I believe it ought to make sense that receiving Jesus as Lord and Savior means that He will keep you from committing sins and dying.
I believe the facts do not support this view.
Subhankar Zac
Hare Krishna,Hare Krishna,
Subhankar Zac
Hare Krishna,Hare Krishna,
Etritonakin
Well-Known Member
I can't remember the other posts, but biblical scripture does specify that -while salvation is a gift by grace -one must do certain things in order to receive it.
"Salvation", however, has to do with things of which man is not capable -becoming completely perfect eventually, being transferred to an incorruptible eternal body, etc...
Muffled
Jesus in me
I believe it varies. Some people have God intervene directly and others have to be nudged in the right direction. All I am saying is that it helps to place oneself in a position to be saved. For instance one would not go to my church to get drunk but one would go to a bar.However it is less likely a person is going to get saved by going to a bar than by going to church. Of course it doesn't always work that way. If I go to a bar I don't get drunk because I don't believe in drinking and some people go to church and don't get saved because they want to run their own life. (That was me until God showed me that I wasn't doing a very good job at it)
I am not sure what the Bible calls this but I am sure it is not what it means to be saved. However salvation is a prerequisite for getting this reward and come to think of it "reward" seems to be the correct word.
paarsurrey
Veteran Member
popsthebuilder
Active Member
You are speaking to one. As far as denomination is concerned, I don't really belong to any schism. I am faithful to the One Creator GOD.
As far as the teachings of the Christ are concerned;
Love GOD without condition or waver.
Love your fellow man as you love yourself.
These two teachings alone produce all that is needed to rightly follow GOD. To believe in Christ is to actually follow His teachings and example to the best of your ability at all times. To have Faith in GOD is to act according to the will of GOD.
Other teachings include utter humility, ascetisism, lack of violence or retaliation, no envy, no want for personal attainment or reward, lack of contempt, contention, fear, and mostly greed.
I can gladly go into further detail if you would like.
With humility,
Peace
Last edited:
paarsurrey
Veteran Member
(With reference to which I have coloured in magenta.)
So, you don't believe Trinity like Moses, Jesus and Mary. Do you?
Regards
popsthebuilder
Active Member
I understand there to be three perceivable aspects of GOD within the limits of the human understanding or cognition. I do not limit the understanding of GOD, or the atributes of GOD to those particular aspects though.
With reference to three aspects perceivable to man, by GOD's will;
GOD= creator
Holy Spirit= will of GOD imparted to man
Man= creation
This can also be interpreted within a traditional Trinitarian view, but no, to answer your question more specifically; I do not limit GOD to my own perceptions, and much less; the perceptions of those who had been lead away in their vanity.
However, more important to me; within my humble perception, is that man should focus on their direction under GOD as opposed to the descriptors of GOD, or other contentious divisions.
It's easy to identify the negativity within people's doctrines. It's easy to identify because it is against the Word of GOD, be it via the bible, Qur'an, or some other form of the Word of GOD.
Tell me, if you will; why do you personally fear the trinity view? Is it because man can be viewed as equal to GOD within that view? That's one of the main reasons I have a problem with it, and because it isn't expressly spoken of in scripture.
Just curious, and painfully honest.
Peace
paarsurrey
Veteran Member
Why to fear from Trinity or its view? It is simply fabricated by Church and wrongly.
Regards
popsthebuilder
Active Member
You do understand that church means congregation of faithful to GOD right?
Do you have references to the Qur'an stating this expressly?
Do you now, at least make some discernment between Unitarian or Arian Christianity and traditional Trinitarian Christianity? Or do you still choose to claim all Christianity to be in error? And if you do feel that they are all literally in error; could you reference the Qur'an for that as well?
I'm sorry; all this time I have assumed you are Islamic. I apologize if you are not.
Does the Qur'an tell us to fear anything at all? I only know of one thing that I am told to fear, and it isn't the faithful, regardless of how misdirected they may or may not be.
Lastly, please don't think I am trying to debate or anything. I genuinely am curious.
Peace
Last edited:
paarsurrey
Veteran Member
Quran mentions that it is a wrong concept of Christianity:
The Holy Quran : Chapter 5: Al-Ma'idah
[5:73]Indeed they are disbelievers who say, ‘Surely, Allah is none but the Messiah, son of Mary,’ whereas the Messiahhimselfsaid, ‘O children of Israel, worship Allah Who is my Lord and your Lord.’ Surely, whoso associates partners with Allah, him has Allah forbidden Heaven, and the Fire will be his resort. And the wrongdoers shall have no helpers.
[5:74]They are surely disbelievers who say, ‘Allah is the third of three;’ there is no God but the One God. And if they do not desist from what they say, a grievous punishment shall surely befall those of them that disbelieve.
[5:75]Will they not then turn to Allah and beg His forgiveness, while Allah is Most Forgiving, Merciful?
[5:76]The Messiah, son of Mary, was only a Messenger; surely, Messengerslike unto himhad indeed passed away before him. And his mother was a truthful woman. They both used to eat food. See how We explain the Signs for their good, and see how they are turned away.
[5:77]Say, ‘Will you worship beside Allah that which has no power to do you harm or good?’ And it is Allah Who is All-Hearing, All-Knowing.
[5:78]Say, ‘O People of the Book! exceed not the limits inthe matter ofyour religion unjustly, nor follow the evil inclinations of a people who went astray before and caused many to go astray, andwhohave strayed away from the right path.’
http://www.alislam.org/quran/search2/showChapter.php?ch=5&verse=73
Regards
popsthebuilder
Active Member
That doesn't speak expressly against the trinity so much as equating the Christ to GOD fully in every way. I agree that the Christ is of GOD and not the utter fullness there of. We as humans can't even conceive the fullness of GOD. Christ is the messiah. He was placed here for the direction and benefit of man, for our sake.
Many Christians confuse Christ or Lord with the one creator GOD. Yet again if people actually focused on and acted according to the teachings of Christ as opposed to hating one another and claiming one another is the anti Christ then they would see that neither party is rightly guided due to fear, hate and war mongering, greed, and pride.
People hypocritically thinking they are saved while they continue in knowing sin seems to plague both Islam and Christianity as do propogators of hate and violence based in unfounded fear.
Your quotes from the Qur'an didn't speak of fear.
Peace
paarsurrey
Veteran Member
(regarding coloured in magenta)
I don't get you. Please express it fully.
Regards
popsthebuilder
Active Member
You agreed that you held some sort of fear for the trinity doctrine.
I'm trying to explain or show that you need not fear any thing but the repercussions of your own thoughts and actions by the judgment of GOD.
Even if ignorant people claim they aren't your brother in Faith; you should still know that they are. As such we are to help them towards the direction of GOD.
As far as me; there is nothing to get.
If you're curious of my stance then regard your attention towards the core writings of the faithful, being ever mindful of the will of GOD as you understand it as to decipher and rightly divide the word of GOD by His will, and grace, and mercy.
I think The faithful of GOD will eventually unite across the globe in profitable existence by God's will.
Either we will do this or we will end. We are here in this existence for a reason. That reason isn't to destroy GOD's creation or hold life back.
Humbly,
Peace
Muffled
Jesus in me
I believe I fail to see the relevancy since you have the wrong post number and if it were #916, you never proved your point in that thread either.
serp777
Well-Known Member
As for the universe not being random.....
The evidence is pretty much all of science -and all science hopes to be.
Something truly random would be unknowable -magical, if you will.
The whole "nothing is magical and there must be a scientific explanation" thing should suffice.
Decision is the closest thing to true randomness -because it does not need to make sense. Still.... The possible decisions at any point are knowable.
Unless you are saying the universe is magical and science could never possibly know about it -or that decision affected things at some point after the Big Bang (which we know we now do) -the universe became exactly what the universe would become.
It is possible that the big bang essentially produced randomness generators of sorts, but that which is produced can technically be reproduced and is knowable. Randomness is a matter of perspective. If you do not know what will happen, it seems random -the generator of the randomness is not beyond knowing or predicting by its nature, but is beyond our ability to know or predict.
Also to be considered is the level at which apparent randomness applies or is applied.
Let's say the universe is a house. Let's say the house must have certain properties -but other properties are not crucial. It will certainly have walls, windows, a roof, doors, etc... but paint color, roof style, door shape, etc., etc. might be generated "at random".
That which could generate apparent randomness is essentially a decision-maker with no obvious or apparent predictability or reasoning -but as something is produced, it is produced by a technically knowable and predictable process. The fact that we cannot know it or predict it does not make it truly random. Even if randomness generators were produced, their seemingly-random decisions could have been known beforehand if all data could be known and processed -all interactions predicted based on the properties of the things which interact.
Even when knowledgeable decision is applied by an aware and self-aware intelligence which may or may not be based on anything in particular, only so many options are available -decision can only be applied as it can be applied.
We often believe things to be true based on our perspective -and often make incorrect conclusions. We also like to say things that sound cool, but really aren't true.
Time travel is possible.... Things can be in two places at once.... Everything is the right length if you use a stretchy measuring tape...
I agree with some of what you wrote -and wrote so.
How is that? The spin of a particle is randomly determined once it is observed.
A decision isn't true randomness whatsoever. It depends on many factors like your environment, your genetics, your mood (which is also a result of your genetics and environment), your desires (which results from things that aren't your choice to make), and other factors you aren't responsible for like the plasticity of your neurons. If any of these factors change, your decision is also liable to change.
That's like saying shuffling a deck and then drawing a particular hand is magical because its random. This claim is just flat out contradicted by quantum mechanics:
"During a measurement, on the other hand, the change of the initial wave function into another, later wave function is not deterministic, it is unpredictable (i.e., random). A time-evolution simulation can be seen here.[1][2]"
- Michael Trott. "Time-Evolution of a Wavepacket in a Square Well — Wolfram Demonstrations Project". Demonstrations.wolfram.com. Retrieved 2010-10-15.
- Jump up^ Michael Trott. "Time Evolution of a Wavepacket In a Square Well". Demonstrations.wolfram.com. Retrieved 2010-10-15.
There's a difference between sensitivity to initial conditions, like a roulette wheel, and true randomness like a particle. What is your definition of random anyways?
Well im not sure what this has to do with randomness.