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Featured Christianity is a crapshoot

Discussion in 'Religious Debates' started by roger1440, Mar 8, 2016.

  1. roger1440

    roger1440 I do stuff

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    Orthodox Christianity teaches one must accept Jesus to be saved. Few Christians can explain what exactly one “saved” from. Rather than to discuss what “saved” means, what does it mean to accept Jesus or to believe in Jesus? Jesus died about 2000 years ago. He is not here to speak for himself. The only available means a person in the 21st century has to hear about Jesus is by the testimony of others. This testimony is transmitted either by word of mouth, a minister or pastor, books, radio, internet, etc. None of these sources had contact with Jesus. Using the Bible as the primary source opens more questions. There is no agreement among the churches on the interpretation on Christian scripture. If there were there wouldn’t be so many churches. Then the problem of authenticity of the Bible comes up. The New Testament is a collection of 27 books. The early church fathers chose what books are in and what books are out. How can we trust their decision? Who were these men? Then the problem of authorship of these 27 books comes up. Many of the authors of these books are anonymous. Scholars are not in agreement on who wrote them. Then there is the problem of the authenticity of the subject matter itself. We can’t ask the authors because they are long dead and we don’t know who they are anyway. Added to the mix are other books that didn’t make the cut. How can anyone know the Gospel of Thomas is is not authentic? Not only is Christianity diverse but there are many other religions across the planet. It would seem Christianity is a crapshoot, a gamble.

    [​IMG]
     
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  2. savagewind

    savagewind Veteran Member
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    I disagree. You call yourself a Christian but you do not believe he was resurrected and now lives in Heaven with God. Is that correct?
    Revelation 3:20
     
    #2 savagewind, Mar 8, 2016
    Last edited: Mar 8, 2016
  3. roger1440

    roger1440 I do stuff

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    You disagree with what? I wrote many things.
     
  4. savagewind

    savagewind Veteran Member
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    You say, "he is not here to speak for himself". Then why do you suppose he is called the Logos?
     
  5. roger1440

    roger1440 I do stuff

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    He is not here physically. If he was he would have made the talk show circuit by now.
     
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  6. Thana

    Thana Lady

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    Just take a step back.
    Christianity isn't one way or the highway. It's many ways, many teachings, many things. And that's one of it's charms because there are very few universal truths. And I don't think God is one thing, or life is one thing, or faith is one thing just like you are not one thing.

    It's not a gamble because it's not win or lose, right or wrong. It's just about having faith.
     
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  7. savagewind

    savagewind Veteran Member
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    He is not here physically. Can he speak from heaven?
     
  8. roger1440

    roger1440 I do stuff

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    Since there is no agreement who or what is Jesus there is no way to know
     
  9. roger1440

    roger1440 I do stuff

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    Depends on who you ask. Christian heretics were burned at the stake for centuries.
     
  10. The Ardent Atheist

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    When you wrote "Orthodox Christianity," I thought you'd meant the Orthodox Church.

    Anyway, what you describe is Christianity from a Protestant perspective. Until the sixteenth century, there were primarily two flavors of Christianity: eastern, or "Orthodox" Christianity, and western, or "Latin" Christianity, which later became known as "Roman Catholicism." Except for belief in the papacy, the nature of hell, and a few other minor details, these two versions of Christianity are essential identical; both adhere to tradition in the form of sacraments and apostolic succession, and neither has an "accept Jesus to be saved" mentality, which is actually a 19th century American Evangelical Protestant concept.

    My point is that, if you look at things objectively, Protestantism--which comprises over 99% of all Christian branches--can be discarded as an absurdity due to its novelty and its relativity in doctrine (among other reasons). This leaves us with Roman Catholicism and Orthodoxy. I've studied Christian history for many years, and, in my opinion, if Christianity is true, only the Orthodox Church can claim to be the legitimate continuation of Christ's religion.

    Regarding the Gospel of Thomas and other non-canonical books: First of all, there are different scriptural canons. The Protestants have less books than Catholics. The Catholics have less books than the Ethiopian Orthodox. The Ethiopians have less than the Armenians. So on and so on and so on. So which Bible are we talking about here? Second, the reason why the four canonical gospels are preferred over any other is because (a) Matthew, Mark, Luke and John are the earliest written and (b) were the only gospels universally venerated throughout Christendom. The early Christians didn't arbitrarily chose their books; before any councils declared "official" canons, there were plenty of Christian writers who had offered canons based on universality and tradition, and these canons were largely consistent with each other and with modern biblical canons.
     
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  11. savagewind

    savagewind Veteran Member
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    Matthew 28:20 Jesus, son of God promises to be with a person who is a disciple of his.
    Is there any way to know for sure if I am being taught by Jesus or not? There is no way to know for certain.
    If what I learn from him makes me a better person and happy then I thank him. If you do not believe he is helping you, you have not thanked him.
    Have you?
     
  12. Thana

    Thana Lady

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    Yup.
    It does depend on who you ask.
    Which means it isn't one way, even back then it wasn't one way or else they'd have had no one to burn at the stake.

    Majority vote doesn't mean squat in Christianity or else we'd all be Catholics. Heaven forbid :p

    Try taking a casual approach to the bible and Christianity and things might just become clearer. That's my two cents, anyhow.
     
  13. Windwalker

    Windwalker Veteran Member
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    I was with you in everything you pointed out, and they are all good and valid points. But I'm confused what you mean by it's a "crapshoot, a gamble". What do you mean? Are you trying to question which is "right" and which is "wrong"? If so, why are you looking at it in those terms?
     
  14. roger1440

    roger1440 I do stuff

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    What I meant by orthodox are the churches connected to the Nicene Creed, (Orthodox, Catholic, Protestant) There are many others too.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicene_Creed
     
  15. roger1440

    roger1440 I do stuff

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    Everyone thinks they are orthodox. It's always the other people who are the heretics.
     
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  16. roger1440

    roger1440 I do stuff

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    The author of the Gospel of Thomas may not agree with you. If the canonical Gospels were “universally venerated throughout Christendom” the author of the Gospel of Thomas would not have had the incentive to write his Gospel. The Gospel doesn’t even seem to be in agreement with the canonical Gospels.
     
  17. roger1440

    roger1440 I do stuff

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    "For whoever wants to save their life will lose it, but whoever loses their life for me will save it." (Luke 9:24)
    A person must bet the farm.

    [​IMG]
     
  18. savagewind

    savagewind Veteran Member
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    I am sure Luke 9:24 does not mean to give up your life. It means to give over your passion (soul) for the doing of God's will.
    I am me and I dedicate myself to the life of Christ but I wish to remain myself. That would be me wanting to save my "life".
    Instead, I am willing to become whatever I can to reflect righteousness. That is me losing my life.
     
  19. Thief

    Thief Rogue Theologian

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    I'm betting on the parables.
    they make good sense to me
     
  20. Deidre

    Deidre Follow thy heart

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    Is this the modern day version of Pascal's Wager?
     
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