Smoke
Done here.
The difference is, I don't believe your proper place is different from anyone else's.As you love me in my place.
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Christianity - Has it been a net gain or loss in world history?
- Thread starter BUDDY
- Start date
Quiddity
UndertheInfluenceofGiants
Indeed...
I do believe some folks place is in the kitchen (male or female) while others should probably stay away.
Maybe hate was too strong a word. I have heard them speak and I know that they think that whites are superior to every one else. I don't know of any Christians that think they are superior (although I assume that you have)- after all one of Jesus commands was to be humble.
Smoke
Done here.
What is the difference between thinking oneself superior and thinking oneself more pleasing to god?
That is where you get it wrong, at least for most of us. We don't think we are better, we know we sin as much as anyone else. We also know that anyone can have God's forgiveness if they want it. If anyone can have it, then it wouldn't make us special if we have it.
I think it's time to stop feeding the troll. If she wants to use her own definition of Christian (and refuse to acknowledge that the authority on the matter is God) to slander the whole, then why bother continuing? Maybe we should start a thread where we just continually bash gays and ignore every logical statement about prejudice.
Smoke
Done here.
There are plenty such threads -- and plenty such churches. From what you say, it sounds like your church is one of them.
But when you say the authority is god's, what you really mean is your idea of god; you give all authority to your own ideas.
It doesn't matter how you define "Christian." Give me any definition you like, and then show me the Christian church that treats LGBTs as the church members would like to be treated. They are out there, but there are damned few of them, and I doubt you'd feel comfortable in them.
Francine
Well-Known Member
The Epsicopal Church is very friendly to lesbians, but unfortunately their holy orders is absolutely null and utterly void.
Smoke
Done here.
They also don't treat gay men and lesbians the same as they treat heterosexuals.
And by the way, people, check the sex tags. I mentioned lesbianism when I was talking to Christine because she's a woman. I'm not.
They also don't treat gay men and lesbians the same as they treat heterosexuals.
And by the way, people, check the sex tags. I mentioned lesbianism when I was talking to Christine because she's a woman. I'm not.
Ah sorry about the confusion then. Nonetheless, there is not one Christian that would argue the definition of a Christian since it is plainly laid out in scripture.
rojse
RF Addict
Rubbish - we argue about it here all the time - "can a true Christian [insert idea/attribute that some find questionable]" eg. be a homosexual, believe in evolution, etc.
Captain Civic
version 2.0
He's talking bare bones of the faith. When people add "true", they are more often than not referring to certain parts of Scripture which deal with the issue at hand (eg. homosexuality). I don't think it's a stretch to say if you believe in Christ and accept His sacrifice, you're a Christian. I can't see anyone debating that.
Smoke
Done here.
In my experience, when people want to quibble about what a "true" Christian is, their idea of true Christianity is never any less backward, bigoted, oppressive, coercive and violent than any other version -- usually it's just the opposite -- so I don't see how it could possibly matter. When considering the effect of Christianity on history, Christian behavior matters a lot more than the details of belief.
Except that the definition of Christianity rules out the acts that you wish to attribute to it.
Smoke
Done here.
Well, let's cover a few points and see. You consider yourself a real Christian, right? Let's see what a real Christian thinks about some issues:
1) Would you approve or disapprove of letting a gay male couple join your church?
2) Would you approve or disapprove of letting a lesbian couple marry in your church?
3) Would you approve or disapprove of the ordination of a transgendered person as a minister of your church?
4) In 2003, did you approve or disapprove of George W. Bush's unprovoked invasion of Iraq?
5) How about now?
6) Do you approve or disapprove of George W. Bush's decision to imprison people for years on Cuban soil without charging them with any crime?
7) Do you approve or disapprove of George W. Bush's decision to use extraordinary rendition -- that is, sending prisoners to backwards countries to be tortured?
8) Do you approve or disapprove of the Bush administration's decision to spy on American citizens who are not suspected of any crime?
9) Do you approve or disapprove of teaching Intelligent Design in public schools?
10) Do you approve or disapprove of full legal equality, including marriage, for LGBTs?
11) With regard to Osama bin Laden, what do you think is the proper attitude for a Christian to take?
12) With regard to Hillary Clinton, what do you think is the proper attitude for a Christian to take?
I think you've probably missed the point here... again. Nonetheless, I will do my best to answer.
1. disapprove
2. disapprove
3. disapprove
4. neither, not informed enough
5. disapprove, but still don't think i have all of the information for that answer
6. disapprove
7. disapprove
8. disapprove
9. disapprove
10. disapprove of marriage, approve of full legal rights of marriage
11. I don't understand your question
12. Again, I don't understand. I'm not going to vote for her, if that's what you mean.
Smoke
Done here.
Do you forgive Osama and pray for him as Jesus commands?
Do you refrain from judging Hillary?
I can't say that I've ever prayed for Osama. Although what Osama has done is terrible, it really hasn't had any personal effect on me, so it's easy for me to forgive him.
What reason would I have to judge Hillary in the first place?
Smoke
Done here.
Well, I have to admit I'm impressed. Your answers were much more peaceful than I'd have got from the Evangelicals I live among.
Nevertheless, your attitudes toward LGBTs cause more harm than you know, and I would reject your religion on that ground alone. I know firsthand the harm it causes to queer kids, and I've seen the harm it causes to their families -- and in many cases, to the ill-suited spouses in a vain attempt to be something they aren't. Maybe a third of us commit suicide. A disproportionate number of us have drug or alcohol problems. That's not because we're inherently suicidal, or because we're more naturally disposed to substance abuse. It's because so many of us grow up in homes where your attitudes are prevalent, and it screws with our minds and hearts in ways I doubt you can imagine.
So I commend you (sincerely) for having a more compassionate and beneficent form of Christianity than many, but I can still say without any qualification that your form of Christianity still causes immeasurable harm. I don't think you intend it to, and maybe you don't even believe that it does. But it does, nevertheless. Forget about the Crusades, the Inquisition, and all the other historical crimes of Christianity. If they had never happened, this one point is enough to make your Christianity immeasurably cruel and harmful. Whether you know it or not.
Nevertheless, your attitudes toward LGBTs cause more harm than you know, and I would reject your religion on that ground alone. I know firsthand the harm it causes to queer kids, and I've seen the harm it causes to their families -- and in many cases, to the ill-suited spouses in a vain attempt to be something they aren't. Maybe a third of us commit suicide. A disproportionate number of us have drug or alcohol problems. That's not because we're inherently suicidal, or because we're more naturally disposed to substance abuse. It's because so many of us grow up in homes where your attitudes are prevalent, and it screws with our minds and hearts in ways I doubt you can imagine.
So I commend you (sincerely) for having a more compassionate and beneficent form of Christianity than many, but I can still say without any qualification that your form of Christianity still causes immeasurable harm. I don't think you intend it to, and maybe you don't even believe that it does. But it does, nevertheless. Forget about the Crusades, the Inquisition, and all the other historical crimes of Christianity. If they had never happened, this one point is enough to make your Christianity immeasurably cruel and harmful. Whether you know it or not.