1. Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

Christianity and Deific deception.

Discussion in 'Interfaith Discussion' started by Desert Snake, Aug 20, 2018.

  1. Desert Snake

    Desert Snake ️️️️️️️️️️

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2011
    Messages:
    20,648
    Ratings:
    +1,697
    Religion:
    Jesus
    Many verses and such aren't addressed properly, like John 1:18
    Which can't be literal, but I know certain churches interpret this as literal.
    That directly contradicts the Bible, and what Jesus alludes to, religiously.

    It is fine if churches explain why they are adhering to that contradiction...but they don't.

    They need to explain that, or...it's deception?
     
    #1 Desert Snake, Aug 20, 2018
    Last edited: Aug 20, 2018
  2. URAVIP2ME

    URAVIP2ME Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2009
    Messages:
    13,252
    Ratings:
    +1,985
    I am wondering why you said John 1:18 is Not addressed properly.......
    Besides the gospel of John, John also wrote 1 John 4:12 which says that No man has seen God at any time.
    Those verses are in harmony with Exodus 33:20 that No man can see God and live.
    People saw Jesus and lived thus John proving Jesus is Not God.

    The Bible was Not originally written in English.
    The KJV Bible translated John 1:1 with out the letter 'a' before the word God.
    The KJV Bible translated Acts of the Apostles 28:6 B by adding the letter 'a' before the word god.
    The same Greek grammar rule applies in both verses.

    John wrote that Nathanael believed Jesus is Son at John 1:49
    John wrote that Peter as spokesman for the 12 wrote Jesus is Son at John 6:69
    John wrote that Jesus believed himself to be Son at John 10:36
    John wrote that Martha believed Jesus to be Son at John 11:27
    John wrote that John himself believed Jesus to be Son at John 20:31.
    Who do the devils think Jesus is at Luke 4:41_______
     
  3. Desert Snake

    Desert Snake ️️️️️️️️️️

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2011
    Messages:
    20,648
    Ratings:
    +1,697
    Religion:
    Jesus
    That's an incorrect statement, though.
    That cannot be a literal statement which includes always. It must be contextual.
    If you believe the book of John ,sure.

    John 1:18 doesn't say son of god, it says god.
     
  4. 74x12

    74x12 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 2, 2017
    Messages:
    3,948
    Ratings:
    +1,021
    Religion:
    Itiswhatitis
    God dwells in unapproachable light. Jesus declares Him because Jesus is God manifest. God has manifested Himself in various ways. Any revelation of God's character is a manifestation of God. Any true thing you learn about God is a revelation of God. Jesus is the ultimate revelation of God to humanity so far because He was incarnate. Tangible. (1 John 1:1) So the Son declares the invisible Father.
     
  5. 74x12

    74x12 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 2, 2017
    Messages:
    3,948
    Ratings:
    +1,021
    Religion:
    Itiswhatitis
    There is no Greek grammar rule that insists on "a" being present. KJV translates Acts 28:6 that way just by looking to the context. The context is that they are pagans and so believed in multiple gods. So they must have assumed he was "a" god rather than simply "god".

    John 1:1 on the other hand has no contextual reason to show us two Gods. That would be heresy for any Jew. John was a Jew and wouldn't talk about a new god. He only believed in One God. (Deuteronomy 6:4)

    Paul says "But to us there is but one God, the Father ..." (1 Corinthians 8:6) That means for the true church of God there can only be One Theos. One God. There may be other theos(gods) for others but for us there is One God.

    It's bizarre to think that the Word of God is a separate god from God anyway. I mean you do believe Jesus is the Word of God right?
    Do you remember that the temple veil was torn in half which symbolized Jesus' own body that was slain for the world? Isn't it obvious that God's glory was veiled in human flesh? The flesh of Jesus? (Colossians 2:8-9)
     
  6. Desert Snake

    Desert Snake ️️️️️️️️️️

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2011
    Messages:
    20,648
    Ratings:
    +1,697
    Religion:
    Jesus
    Not to be obscure, but some of these verses smack of the "unknown god", that we encounter, later, in Scripture. That the pagans worshipped.

    A verse that is very literal sounding, does not really imbue the idea, that we are dealing with a reference to tangibility, although that is basically how I interpreted a couple of these verses, elsewhere. The difference being, I separated the Jesus nature, from the Abba nature, so the verses mean Jesus specifically, not the Abba, at all.
    In other words, no one knew Jesus, until He incarnated.
     
  7. 74x12

    74x12 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 2, 2017
    Messages:
    3,948
    Ratings:
    +1,021
    Religion:
    Itiswhatitis
    For me I believe the Abba and Jesus are One and the same.
     
  8. URAVIP2ME

    URAVIP2ME Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2009
    Messages:
    13,252
    Ratings:
    +1,985
    Yes, I too find John 1:18 says God. No one has seen God at any time. People saw Jesus.
    So, if No person has ever seen God, and people saw Jesus, then Jesus is Not God.
    Even the resurrected heavenly Jesus still thinks he has a God over him as per Revelation 3:12.

    I find ' son of God ' appears at John 1:49; John 6:69; John 10:36; John 11:27; John 20:31.
     
  9. URAVIP2ME

    URAVIP2ME Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2009
    Messages:
    13,252
    Ratings:
    +1,985
    I find Colossians 1:15 lets us know Jesus is the image of the Invisible God and he is first born of every creature.

    In high school English the English teacher stressed to us that the word ' and ' is a conjunction between two.
    So, the word ' and ' at 1 Corinthians 8:6 indicates one God the Father... ' and ' one Lord, Jesus Christ.....
    So, to me 1 Corinthians 8:6 is talking about two (2) persons: God ' and ' Jesus.
    The person of God whom the resurrected Jesus appeared before Him according to Hebrews 9:24.

    Jesus continues to serve as the Word of God, God's spokesman, as per John 12:49-50; John 14:10; John 7:16-17.
     
  10. Desert Snake

    Desert Snake ️️️️️️️️️️

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2011
    Messages:
    20,648
    Ratings:
    +1,697
    Religion:
    Jesus
    Which god are you talking about?

    Genesis 12:7
    The Lord appears to Abram
    Genesis 15:15
    Lord appears to Abram
    Genesis 17:17
    The Lord appears to Abram
    Genesis 17:3
    Abram falls before the Lord
    Genesis 18:18
    The Lord appears to Abraham
    Genesis 18:22
    Abraham stood before the Lord
    1 Samuel 3:10
    The Lord stood before Samuel
     
  11. 74x12

    74x12 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 2, 2017
    Messages:
    3,948
    Ratings:
    +1,021
    Religion:
    Itiswhatitis
    Jesus is the Word made flesh. That is God personally wrote out His DNA. His DNA is the Word of God. So I dont' believe He's just a spokesman of God. Any angel or prophet can do that. But Jesus is the testament of God in the flesh. The Word of Life. (1 John 1:1) Jesus is the bread of Life (John 6:35) that gives His flesh for the meat of the world. (John 6:55) That means He gave His body to be broken so we could have life. (Matthew 26:26) So it is written "Taste ye and see that Jehovah is good, Oh the happiness of the man who trusts in Him." (Psalm 34:8)

    The thing about Jesus is He is human. So when it says "one Lord" it means His humanity. Which His mission is the restoration of all humanity. He's the prophesied "Son of man" who would deliver the kingdom restored and whole to the Father again. (Daniel 7:13) That's why He came. So God said to a human being "Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool."

    So Jesus the human being has been given all power (Matthew 28:18) and sits on the right hand of all power. (Matthew 26:64) He has been given the key of David and His mission is to reconcile all things to the Father again as it says in 2 Corinthians 5:18, or as it says in Colossians 1:20 He is reconciling all things to Himself. Either way it says the same thing because He is the Father manifest.

    2 Corinthians 5:18
    And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation;

    Colossians 1:20
    And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven.

    It was necessary that all power be given to the Son of Adam so that the descendants of Adam could be saved through Him. That's why He's the Messiah, the Savior.

    That doesn't mean He isn't also God manifest. God will not share His glory with another. Jesus said that the good Shepherd gives His life for the sheep and furthermore Jesus taught that greater love has no one than this, that one lays down his life for his friends. What we could not do for ourselves, God coming in our likeness has done.

    So of God we know that He is greatest in love. Because God is love. (1 John 4:8)
    And we know that God is the good Shepherd. (Psalm 23)

    In conclusion, God had to die to fulfill His great love and that He is the true Shepherd of the sheep. But since God cannot die; God required a human body.

    Jesus the Son of God, born of a woman and created flesh and blood was God manifest. He existed before as God (Isaiah 9:6) and His body is created in the womb. His body is the "Lamb of God" the sacrifice for sins. (Hebrews 10:5)

    Hebrews 10:5
    Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me:

    This human body was indwelt by all the fullness of God's nature.

    Colossians 1:19 Young's Literal Translation (YLT)
    because in him it did please all the fulness to tabernacle,

    Colossians 2:8-9 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ. For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.
     
  12. URAVIP2ME

    URAVIP2ME Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2009
    Messages:
    13,252
    Ratings:
    +1,985
    I am talking about the one LORD God of the KJV LORD God found at Psalms 110.
    Please notice there are two (2) LORD/Lord's mentioned at Psalms 110.
    The LORD in all Upper-Case letters stands for the LORD God ( Tetragrammaton YHWH)
    The Lord in some lower-case letters stands for the Lord Jesus.
    So, the Genesis/ Samuel Lord would be the LORD (Tetragrammaton )
    God (Tetragrammaton) appears...... - Genesis 12:7
     
  13. Desert Snake

    Desert Snake ️️️️️️️️️️

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2011
    Messages:
    20,648
    Ratings:
    +1,697
    Religion:
    Jesus
    And you believe that YHWH, has no form, that no one knows the form, or what?
     
  14. URAVIP2ME

    URAVIP2ME Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2009
    Messages:
    13,252
    Ratings:
    +1,985
    I find according to Hebrews 9:24 that the resurrected spirit Jesus appeared before the person of God.
    So, to me God does have a form, and as 1 Kings 8:39,49 says God has a specific home location.
     
  15. Desert Snake

    Desert Snake ️️️️️️️️️️

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2011
    Messages:
    20,648
    Ratings:
    +1,697
    Religion:
    Jesus
    A pre-existant Jesus, if He is a man, would know the form of YHWH, correct? Are you saying that Jesus didn't know the form of YHWH, until He resurrected?
    Also, how would anyone know what is the form of YHWH, if they had never encountered His person?
     
    #15 Desert Snake, Aug 26, 2018
    Last edited: Aug 26, 2018
Loading...