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Christian: The Ten Commandments: Are they for us?

Discussion in 'Same Faith Debates' started by Katzpur, Aug 4, 2005.

  1. Katzpur

    Katzpur Not your average Mormon

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    Do you, as a Christian, believe that the Ten Commandments apply to us? I ask this because I have been told on more than one occasion that pretty much every law given by God during Old Testament times was fulfilled by Jesus Christ when He established the new covenant. Personally, I don't see it that way. I do believe that His gospel replaced the old Mosaic law, but I don't see that as an excuse for us to ignore God's commandments such as those which forbid adultery, idol worship, etc. and require us to keep the Sabbath Day holy. Where do you draw the line? Which commandments do you feel justified in saying don't apply to us anymore?
     
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  2. Scott1

    Scott1 Well-Known Member

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    I believe they apply to all... Christian or not.
     
  3. Aqualung

    Aqualung Tasty

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    I think all are. I don't understand those (and it seems to most christians) who think that nine of the commandments are sacred, but that, when it comes to keeping the sabbath day holy, it isn't important. I think that the ten commandements are still aplicable and the rest of mosaic law isn't is because Jesus or his followers continually reafirmed thier importance, whereas Paul, most notably, was very clear in saying that animal sacrifice and those sorts of practices were no longer necessary.
     
  4. true blood

    true blood Active Member

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    So what's the punishment for traveling over 3/5 or 4/5 of a mile on the Sabbath?

    Check it, the setting, the wilderness where God supplied the Israelites with manna six days of the week. On the sixth day, the day before the weekly Sabbath, He supplied twice as much so that the Hebrews would have plenty for both the sixth and the seventh day. Read in context, the true meaning of the verse was that they were not to leave their dwellings in order to gather food on the seventh day. Many centuries later the Pharisees, who were the theologians of their day, developed the legalistic doctrine which allowed a person to travel just a certain distance on the Sabbath. In fact the Sabbath day's journey was an entirely man made concept. The Talmud even takes steps for lengthening that distance and its just plain ludicrous as the scriptural interpretation upon which that law was based. Basicly I'm saying that the commandments were given unto Israel only, and some of those commandments were man-made. Jesus abolished them all and has written His laws on the hearts of his believers.

    The Sabbath was definately a day to be respected. It was a holy day to be set apart for God. All of his commandments were to be respected. However, the religious leaders of the day carried all their laws to an extreme. It was apparent to Jesus, his disciples, and perhaps to more than a few common people of the day. They saw that the burdensome traditions of the religious leaders were making of none effect the true commandments of God. Doubtless many of them viewed those traditions as we view similar religious traditions today: as needless ceremonious theological trappings. Even throughout the Gospels the religious leaders rebuked Jesus and his disciples for breaking "laws". Each time Jesus reproved the leaders' legalism with scripture and examples of their hypocrisy. It was in this light that he said, "The Sabbath was made for man, and not man for the Sabbath". The lesson is clear. The Sabbath was to be a blessing to man, not a religious dogma to put him in bondage. A lesson everyone who supports the "commandments" should learn well.
     
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  5. Katzpur

    Katzpur Not your average Mormon

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    Excellent points! But I have heard at least one Christian on this forum state that we are no longer bound to keep the Sabbath day holy because we don't worship on the Sabbath anymore anyway. So it's okay to go to Church on Sunday (if you want) but the rest of the day is open for an sports, yard work, shopping, etc. In other words, the commandment to keep the Sabbath day Holy was for the Jews and doesn't apply to Christians.

    I've also heard it argued -- rather passionately -- that tithing was part of the old covenant and is no longer required, implying that Jesus did away with it. I realize that the payment of tithes is not one of the Ten Commandments. But does it follow that, just because a law was instituted prior to the time of Christ, it is no longer applicable to us. Jesus Christ's sacrifice ended sacrifice by the shedding of blood. Therefore, God no longer expects us to offer up the firstlings of our flocks (not that most of us have them anyway!) to Him as a burnt offering.

    But did the new covenant completely cancel out every commandment God issued in Old Testament times? A lot of Christians say, "yes." I say "no."
     
  6. kimfuge

    kimfuge New Member

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    I personally do not believe there is not much ground in saying that we don't have to keep the Sabbath holy because we no longer worship on the sabbath. IMO, even after the Jesus' resurrection, we were bound to keep all 10 of the commandments. Is it still sin to committ adultery? Is it still sin to murder? Is it still sin to worship other idols? Then why is it not sin to neglect the Sabbath? Why do people worship on a Sunday when the Sabbath is explicity Saturday?
     
  7. michel

    michel Administrator Emeritus
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    You make a valid point; I think you will find, that for anyone who is employed, and who has made it clear that he/she finds it impossible to do something 'wrong' according to his/her religious dictates, that the employer will do his best to try and accomodate that person.

    I dare say that there a re a few employers who would tell the person to 'get lost' - take the job 'as is' or walk.......but that is no different in any other aspect of people's reactions to such subjects.:)
     
  8. CaptainXeroid

    CaptainXeroid Following Christ

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    Most definitely yes!

    16 And behold, one came up to him, saying, "Teacher, what good deed must I do, to have eternal life?" 17 And he said to him, "Why do you ask me about what is good? One there is who is good. If you would enter life, keep the commandments." 18 He said to him, "Which?" And Jesus said, "You shall not kill, You shall not commit adultery, You shall not steal, You shall not bear false witness, 19 Honor your father and mother, and, You shall love your neighbor as yourself."

    As for keeping the Sabbath Holy, my personal belief is that I honor that commandment by participating in worship service.:162:
     
  9. kimfuge

    kimfuge New Member

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    Commandment says, "Keep the Sabbath (7th day) holy," not merely "participe in worship service." It's like celebrating July 4th on July 3rd. By all means, I respect your thoughts, but don't you thik all commandments should be taken holy?
     
  10. michel

    michel Administrator Emeritus
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    [PART QUOTE=Katzpur]................."Do you, as a Christian, believe that the Ten Commandments apply to us?"..............[/PART QUOTE]

    I realized that I had missed answering the question in my last post. Yes, assuredly, I do so.

    Even when I did not consider myself to be a 'practicing Christian' (and that is wrong anyway, because I have always believed that Jesus Christ was portrayed in the Bible as he was, and I have always believed in what I knew of his teachings), I still did.

    In fact, I would assume that most moral people (oops - asking for trouble saying that) would follow the ten commandements (less the ones relating to religious beliefs, of course).

    Coincidentally; on:- http://www.moseshand.com/questions/p24a.htm , there is a list of the ten Commandements, in two colums - one headed " The Law Of God
    Old Testament" - and one "The Law Of God new Testament".:)
     
  11. Melody

    Melody Well-Known Member

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    As Christians, I believe we are bound by the laws of the NT...Jesus. I think if you read the NT, you'll find that we are still commanded to follow the ideals of the 10 commandments. We still follow the 10 commandments but not under Mosaic Law. We do so because we are followers of Christ who is the fulfillment of the law.

    Owe no one anything except to love one another, for he who loves another has fulfilled the law. For the commandments, “You shall not commit adultery,” “You shall not murder,” “You shall not steal,” “You shall not bear false witness,”] “You shall not covet,” and if there is any other commandment, are all summed up in this saying, namely, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.” Love does no harm to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfillment of the law.
    Romans 13:8-10

    I won't go into tithing on this thread since the top is 10 commandments. I will start a new one.
     
  12. kimfuge

    kimfuge New Member

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    Many people who worship on Sunday attest to the changes from Old Testament to New Testament to justify their worship on Sunday. But the source Michel provides is an excellent attestment to the fact that all the 10 commandments should be kept - including the fourth.
     
  13. kimfuge

    kimfuge New Member

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    Melody, can you clarify on the differences between the Mosaic and the NT laws?
     
  14. true blood

    true blood Active Member

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    It's clearly stated in the Scriptures that as born again sons of God are not under law, but grace. Romans 7:4 even states that, the brethren, are become dead to the law. One reason many christians gather on a Sunday for to worship is because it was just such the day that Jesus was first seen in His resurrected body. It's not that because most christians observe Sunday does not mean we keep it under the compulsion of the law. No, no. We keep it because we are under grace and wish to do so. Because of this Age of Grace, if we so wish to look at every day as sacred and not one day more so than any other day, we shall. Each day should be lived unto the Lord, but through tradition most have set aside Sunday especially as a day of rest and special worship. I also hear about Sunday as being the "Lord's Day". This is incorrect. The Lord's Day (or the Day of the Lord) is not a day of the week as commonly believed. It is not Sunday, nor Saturday. But the Lord's Day is His Day on earth, when the Lord Himself shall rule in righteousness and power and glory. IMO, christians should make it known that they are not believers tied to one legalistic day of worship. They should worship God daily in spirit and in truth. Oft times tradition blinds us to the truth of the light of God's word.
     
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  15. Terrywoodenpic

    Terrywoodenpic Oldest Heretic

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    Even if there was no religion in the world, we should keep what are after all the best set of life rules going.
    As a Christian there is no contest.

    Terry
    ________________________________
    Blessed are the merciful, mercy shall be shown unto them.
     
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  16. michel

    michel Administrator Emeritus
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    Absolutely, and unequivocally. Except that if there was no religion, maybe the first four commandments would become redundant..although the unions might try to invent the fourth one anyway.:D
     
  17. oneWord

    oneWord New Member

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    I believe they are for us. Jesus said they were and added more. If the Word was 'written on our hearts' (i.e. we can't pretend to not know right from wrong) then, of course, where can we run and pretend to deny our pretentiousness?
     
  18. Katzpur

    Katzpur Not your average Mormon

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    So which of the laws first given in Old Testament times no longer apply to Christians? We're certainly not required to live the Mosaic Laws any more. But how many Christians are even clear on what the Mosaic Laws were. I know a lot of Christians don't believe that the law of tithing applies to us any more, and that it was done away with by Jesus Christ. What laws do you believe were rescinded by the new covenant?
     
  19. Baerly

    Baerly Active Member

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    Hi, How are you? Did you know that the 10 Comm were ONLY given to the Jews according to (Ex.34:27). The Gentiles never were under the 10 comm.

    I am a Gentile,how about you? in love Baerly
     
  20. joeboonda

    joeboonda Well-Known Member

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    Jesus said 2 commandments, love God and love your fellow man, that this is the law and the prophets. The first 4 commandments deal with loving God, the last 6 with loving our fellow man. Paul said that the Law was our 'schoolmaster' to bring us to Christ. We look at the Law like a mirror, it shows us every wrinkle, blemish, wart, every sin. It is like a whip, or hammer driving us to Christ. We see in the Law how we sin and fall short of God's Holiness, thus being in need of a Saviour. Paul said He could keep the commandments pretty well, except covetousness slayed him. He didn't commit adultery, lie, steal, etc., but he coveted, he wanted to do those things.

    Once the Law shows us our unholiness compared to a Holy God, like the doctor tells us we have cancer and will die, Grace comes in with the cure! Trusting alone in Christ alone, accepting the free gift of salvation, His paying for our sins in our place, His righteousness in place of our own. Repenting from the sin of unbelief to believing in, trusting in Christ's work on the cross for us. We are under grace, and free from the law of sin and death.

    In Acts (and Galatians) people tried to corrupt the simplicity of the Gospel by adding other laws to simple faith in Christ for salvation. Paul sharply rebuked these people. Grace by faith is the only way.

    15:5 But there rose up certain of the sect of the Pharisees which believed, saying, That it was needful to circumcise them, and to command them to keep the law of Moses.
    15:6 And the apostles and elders came together for to consider of this matter.
    15:7 And when there had been much disputing, Peter rose up, and said unto them, Men and brethren, ye know how that a good while ago God made choice among us, that the Gentiles by my mouth should hear the word of the gospel, and believe.
    15:8 And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as he did unto us; 15:9 And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith.
    15:10 Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear? 15:11 But we believe that through the grace of the LORD Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they.
    15:19 Wherefore my sentence is, that we trouble not them, which from among the Gentiles are turned to God: 15:20 But that we write unto them, that they abstain from pollutions of idols, and from fornication, and from things strangled, and from blood.
    15:24 Forasmuch as we have heard, that certain which went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls, saying, Ye must be circumcised, and keep the law: to whom we gave no such commandment: 15:28 For it seemed good to the Holy Ghost, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things; 15:29 That ye abstain from meats offered to idols, and from blood, and from things strangled, and from fornication: from which if ye keep yourselves, ye shall do well. Fare ye well.
    (King James Bible, Acts)

    2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.
    2:21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.
    3:1 O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you? 3:2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? 3:3 Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?
    3:8 And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.
    3:9 So then they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham.
    3:10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.
    3:11 But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.
    3:12 And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them.
    3:13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree: 3:14 That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.
    3:22 But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.
    3:23 But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.
    3:24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
    3:25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.
    3:26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
    3:27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
    4:4 But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law, 4:5 To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons.
    4:9 But now, after that ye have known God, or rather are known of God, how turn ye again to the weak and beggarly elements, whereunto ye desire again to be in bondage? 4:10 Ye observe days, and months, and times, and years.
    4:11 I am afraid of you, lest I have bestowed upon you labour in vain.
    4:16 Am I therefore become your enemy, because I tell you the truth? 4:17 They zealously affect you, but not well; yea, they would exclude you, that ye might affect them.
    4:21 Tell me, ye that desire to be under the law, do ye not hear the law?
    5:1 Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.
    5:2 Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing.
    5:3 For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law.
    5:4 Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.
    5:5 For we through the Spirit wait for the hope of righteousness by faith.
    5:6 For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love.
    5:7 Ye did run well; who did hinder you that ye should not obey the truth? 5:8 This persuasion cometh not of him that calleth you.
    5:9 A little leaven leaveneth the whole lump.
    5:10 I have confidence in you through the Lord, that ye will be none otherwise minded: but he that troubleth you shall bear his judgment, whosoever he be.
    5:11 And I, brethren, if I yet preach circumcision, why do I yet suffer persecution? then is the offence of the cross ceased.
    5:12 I would they were even cut off which trouble you.


    Actually, the whole third, fourth, and fifth chapters of Galatians are a strong rebuke to those who would trouble us with this issue, and would help people understand how we are freely saved by faith and not by the Law. The Bible says also not to judge others in holy days, sabbaths, meat, drink, etc. Loving God and our fellow man is good, making legalistic rules and tying them in with our salvation, corrupting the gospel message is vehemently warned against by the Bible, Paul in Galatians 5 said he wished these people who troubled them were even cut off.
     
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