Christian Pacifists Go Against Their Belief If They Live In The USA

[DebateChallenge]

Those extreme Christian pacifists, I would like to point out that they do not practice what they preach and they go against their belief of pacifism if they live in countries such as the USA.

 

[VoidCat]

Not trying to debate just trying to understand but which ones?I'm an extreme pacifist in the USA. I've had people try to harm me physically on quite a few occasions but never once tried to hit someone else or otherwise cause bodily harm. So which ones are you talking about?

 

[shunyadragon]

. . . onward Christian soldiers forward as to war!'

 

[Brickjectivity]

Those extreme Christian pacifists, I would like to point out that they do not practice what they preach and they go against their belief of pacifism if they live in countries such as the USA.

So...they should not try to change the USA but instead should paddle away into the ocean. What if they make a boat first? If they use a boat is that wrong, too?

 

[SalixIncendium]

**MOVED TO SAME FAITH DEBATES**​

 

[Tranquil Servant]

Those extreme Christian pacifists, I would like to point out that they do not practice what they preach and they go against their belief of pacifism if they live in countries such as the USA.

Well I understand you might think the USA is a warmongering, bully country (and I don't blame you) but Countries and/or their government's policies don't necessarily represent it's people....ESPECIALLY the United States

 

[columbus]

Those extreme Christian pacifists, I would like to point out that they do not practice what they preach and they go against their belief of pacifism if they live in countries such as the USA.

I am an extreme pacifist.
I also have a lot of relatives, including some very elderly ones.
Is leaving them here what you think is the Christian thing to do?
Tom

 

[MonkeyFire]

I'm a conciencous objector of violence but not our service men and women. I believe fighting isn't necessarily violent, but I am suppose to resolve conflict with equanimity.

 

[Spirit of Light]

In my understanding being a pacifist is a part of many religions, but then it is called, do not kill orkillig is a wrong action. just living in US does not make them go against their own religious views, they can work toward a better USA with less Guns and other weapons. Being a pacifist is a personal choice and they can be agaist American politic with their view, but they can aso say, they follow the "rules" of the bible and not the country law.

 

[Brickjectivity]

Those extreme Christian pacifists, I would like to point out that they do not practice what they preach and they go against their belief of pacifism if they live in countries such as the USA.

I am not sure who 'Those extreme pacifists' are but consider reading this book:
How to Read the Bible and Still Be a Christian: Is God Violent? An Exploration from Genesis to Revelation

How to Read the Bible & Still Be a Christian: Is God Violent? An Exploration from Genesis to Revelation by John Dominic Crossan

 

[VoidCat]

In my understanding being a pacifist is a part of many religions, but then it is called, do not kill orkillig is a wrong action. just living in US does not make them go against their own religious views, they can work toward a better USA with less Guns and other weapons. Being a pacifist is a personal choice and they can be agaist American politic with their view, but they can aso say, they follow the "rules" of the bible and not the country law.

Agreed. I have a very pacifistic view and in my belief I will not hurt another person unless it's obvious they are about to kill me or rape me. And even then only to the extent to save myself. Those are the only two times I would fight someone.And in the situation if someone is trying to kill me it depends on there reasoning..I'm still trying to figure out if I would fight someone in order to save someone else's life. I think life is more important then causing bodily harm so I probably would fight I don't know. I have gotten into a few situations where someone has tried to hurt me and managed not to cause the other person any harm...There are people here who have guns and such but just living in the US doesn't mean I have to own one. Nor does it mean I have to harm someone else.

 

[DebateChallenge]

Not trying to debate just trying to understand but which ones?I'm an extreme pacifist in the USA. I've had people try to harm me physically on quite a few occasions but never once tried to hit someone else or otherwise cause bodily harm.

You could've called the police, then again you might not do that if you're a pacifist.

 

[DebateChallenge]

So this is why a true extreme pacifist cannot live in the USA, or really any country, without going against what they preach and believe. I've heard some extreme pacifists say that the only use for weapons is for use against animals, such as if you're going hunting, that weapons should never be used against people under any circumstances including self defense or the defense of another. They say that self, loved ones, possession, and kingdom all belong to God and are not to be protected with violence.

So if that is what they believe and if they live in the USA, then by living in the USA they are going against what they believe. Why? Because the USA has an army and a police force. By living in a country with an army and a police force they are going against what they believe. Just about every country has an army and a police force so the only way that I can think of for them to practice what they believe is to live on an island that is uncharted and cut off from the rest of the world.

 

[Brickjectivity]

The pacifists whom I have had a privilege of meeting struggle with their feelings, because they are human beings. They hope that under pressure they will not ever break and use violence. I also think some of them occasionally do, and they are ashamed of it. Many absolutely do believe, however, that they should not use violence. All I know is there is not an extremist or permissive group. Obviously if we are defining by the extreme then that leads us to just a very small group, but how is that group defined? What is an extreme pacifist? I have never killed anyone. I could be called an extreme pacifist just from that.

 

[VoidCat]

You could've called the police, then again you might not do that if you're a pacifist.

I did not call the police because I do not trust them and besides they would not have got there on time.

 

[Spirit of Light]

So this is why a true extreme pacifist cannot live in the USA, or really any country, without going against what they preach and believe. I've heard some extreme pacifists say that the only use for weapons is for use against animals, such as if you're going hunting, that weapons should never be used against people under any circumstances including self defense or the defense of another. They say that self, loved ones, possession, and kingdom all belong to God and are not to be protected with violence.

So if that is what they believe and if they live in the USA, then by living in the USA they are going against what they believe. Why? Because the USA has an army and a police force. By living in a country with an army and a police force they are going against what they believe. Just about every country has an army and a police force so the only way that I can think of for them to practice what they believe is to live on an island that is uncharted and cut off from the rest of the world.

Maybe you forget that Religion and politics should not be bleded. A pasifist who have a religious belief will follow the religion not the military or government when those go again the religious belief.
That a person is born in a country who do different then any religion teach is not the persons fault, it is the military and governments that choose to act with weapons.

I do not see any reason to use a weapon aginst any living being.

 

[VoidCat]

Maybe you forget that Religion and politics should not be bleded. A pasifist who have a religious belief will follow the religion not the military or government when those go again the religious belief.
That a person is born in a country who do different then any religion teach is not the persons fault, it is the military and governments that choose to act with weapons.

I do not see any reason to use a weapon aginst any living being.

This I agree with. This guy worded the post better then I could.

 

[DebateChallenge]

Maybe you forget that Religion and politics should not be bleded. A pasifist who have a religious belief will follow the religion not the military or government when those go again the religious belief.
That a person is born in a country who do different then any religion teach is not the persons fault, it is the military and governments that choose to act with weapons.

Well the fact remains that as long as they're living in a country such as the USA they are living under the protection of the US government and that includes government entities such as the military and the police. Not only that but if you're paying taxes, which if you're living in the USA you should be doing, you're helping to pay for those things. A good portion of your tax dollars goes towards defense. So anybody who disagrees with those methods should make arrangements to move out of the country ASAP and go somewhere where they don't have a military or police force. As long as they live in the USA they're going against what they believe.

I do not see any reason to use a weapon aginst any living being.

Well according to your profile you're a Buddhist. I don't know much about Buddhism but for the Christian the Bible at the very least justifies the hunting of animals so according to the Bible weapons can, at least, be used against animals. Weapons can be used for hunting or for protection from vicious animals. As to whether or not weapons should ever be used against people according to the Bible, that is still a subject of much debate although anybody who believes they shouldn't be, for the reasons I explained above they're going against their belief by living in countries such as the USA. As a Buddhist you probably don't believe the Bible so what the Bible says about hunting might not apply to you, as I said I don't know much about your religion and if it allows hunting and the eating of animal flesh.

 

[VoidCat]

Well the fact remains that as long as they're living in a country such as the USA they are living under the protection of the US government and that includes government entities such as the military and the police. Not only that but if you're paying taxes, which if you're living in the USA you should be doing, you're helping to pay for those things. A good portion of your tax dollars goes towards defense. So anybody who disagrees with those methods should make arrangements to move out of the country ASAP and go somewhere where they don't have a military or police force. As long as they live in the USA they're going against what they believe.

There are other things tax money is used for and while some of it is used for the military I see nothing wrong with paying taxes...Jesus didn't reject paying taxes to the Roman government or did you not hear that story?

 

[Spirit of Light]

Well the fact remains that as long as they're living in a country such as the USA they are living under the protection of the US government and that includes government entities such as the military and the police. Not only that but if you're paying taxes, which if you're living in the USA you should be doing, you're helping to pay for those things. A good portion of your tax dollars goes towards defense. So anybody who disagrees with those methods should make arrangements to move out of the country ASAP and go somewhere where they don't have a military or police force. As long as they live in the USA they're going against what they believe.


Well according to your profile you're a Buddhist. I don't know much about Buddhism but for the Christian the Bible at the very least justifies the hunting of animals so according to the Bible weapons can, at least, be used against animals. Weapons can be used for hunting or for protection from vicious animals. As to whether or not weapons should ever be used against people according to the Bible, that is still a subject of much debate although anybody who believes they shouldn't be, for the reasons I explained above they're going against their belief by living in countries such as the USA. As a Buddhist you probably don't believe the Bible so what the Bible says about hunting might not apply to you, as I said I don't know much about your religion and if it allows hunting and the eating of animal flesh.

So in your understanding all Christian people in USA have to move to a country who do not have military or police? Iceland is a good choice then

I dont follow the Bible my self, but even as a Buddhist i do not reject that both the bible and Jesus is a valid truthful path for those who follow it. Personally i study the Buddhist scripture and follow the guidelies put forth by Buddha Sakyamuni.

When it comes to pasifism for religious people they understand that killing (specially other humans) are against Gods words and teaching, Also for me as a Buddhist i see the problem with killing people (karma law) But i can not say what others should do or not do.
To pay tax has nothing to do with the religion, that is a political law that most all countries in the world have today. So no matter where a Christian or people from other religions choose to live, they will have to pay tax. Tht is not going against God or other deities, it is only a part of being a human being.
Taking part in the military by cary weapon will be a personal choice every religious person will have to take them self, personally i have never been in the military or carried weapons (except for knife when i worked in a warehouse.
Weapon in it self can be used to do many things, but what a pasifist do not wish to do is to kill other people, this is why they do not take part in military actions or choose to cary weapons.
It is all coming down to a personal choice, and many Christians do not want to take life because the bible tell them it is a sin. and i really understand them well.

But i respect your vies too, even i am not directly agree with you