Christ Has returned, what should have we looked for?

[Neb]

Baha'u'llah did not come from Ishmael. Why do you keep saying that, just so you can rule Him out as being the Messiah? It won't work, because Baha'u'llah is descended from David and He sat on the throne of David.

Hopefully, I will only have to post this one more time.

1559. Bahá’u’lláh was a Descendent of Abraham Through Both Katurah and Sarah—Jesse, Son of Sarah, was the Father of David and Ancestor of Bahá’u’lláh

"Regarding your question concerning the Jesse from whom Bahá’u’lláh is descended: The Master says in 'Some Answered Questions', referring to Isaiah, chapter 11, verses 1 to 10, that these verses apply 'Word for word to Bahá’u’lláh'. He then identifies this Jesse as the father of David in the following words: '…for Joseph was of the descendants of Jesse the father of David…', thus identifying the Jesse of Isaiah, chapter 11, with being the father of David. Bahá’u’lláh is thus the descendant of Jesse, the father of David.

"The Guardian hopes that this will clarify the matter for you. It is a tremendous and fascinating theme, Bahá’u’lláh's connection with the Faith of Judaism, and one which possesses great interest to Jew and Christian alike." (From a letter written on behalf of Shoghi Effendi to an individual believer, July 11, 1942)

12: COMMENTARY ON THE ELEVENTH CHAPTER OF ISAIAH

Mt 1:1 The book of the generation of Jesus Christ, the son of David, the son of Abraham.
Mt 1:2 Abraham begat Isaac; and Isaac begat Jacob; and Jacob begat Judah and his brethren;
Mt 1:3 and Judah begat Perez and Zerah of Tamar; and Perez begat Hezron; and Hezron begat Ram;
Mt 1:4 and Ram begat Amminadab; and Amminadab begat Nahshon; and Nahshon begat Salmon;
Mt 1:5 and Salmon begat Boaz of Rahab; and Boaz begat Obed of Ruth; and Obed begat Jesse;
Mt 1:6 and Jesse begat David the king. And David begat Solomon of her that had been the wife of Uriah;
Mt 1:7 and Solomon begat Rehoboam; and Rehoboam begat Abijah; and Abijah begat Asa;
Mt 1:8 and Asa begat Jehoshaphat; and Jehoshaphat begat Joram; and Joram begat Uzziah;
Mt 1:9 and Uzziah begat Jotham; and Jotham begat Ahaz; and Ahaz begat Hezekiah;
Mt 1:10 and Hezekiah begat Manasseh; and Manasseh begat Amon; and Amon begat Josiah;
Mt 1:11 and Josiah begat Jechoniah and his brethren, at the time of the carrying away to Babylon.
Mt 1:12 And after the carrying away to Babylon, Jechoniah begat Shealtiel; and Shealtiel begat Zerubbabel;
Mt 1:13 and Zerubbabel begat Abiud; and Abiud begat Eliakim; and Eliakim begat Azor;
Mt 1:14 and Azor begat Sadoc; and Sadoc begat Achim; and Achim begat Eliud;
Mt 1:15 and Eliud begat Eleazar; and Eleazar begat Matthan; and Matthan begat Jacob;
Mt 1:16 and Jacob begat Joseph the husband of Mary, of whom was born Jesus, who is called Christ.

See if you can find Mírzá Ḥusayn-`Alí Núrí, aka, Baha’u’llah, a Persian Shi'ite, that came from Ishmael and NOT from Isaac here.

 

[Neb]

Good thing is I have the Word of Christ and the Word of Baha'u'llah which is the Word of God freely available and can make up my mind on this matter.

With them available, the Gospel according to Neb is death and to be avoided. It is only fair I share that with you.

Have a very happy life, it is short and it ends.

I will always wish you well and strong and prosperous Faith, Regards Tony

The Lord Jesus is in the bible but Mírzá Ḥusayn-`Alí Núrí, aka, Baha’u’llah, a Persian Shi'ite, who came from Ishmael and NOT from Isaac is NOT or was not mentioned at all in the bible. In the four gospel or in the New Testament there are NO baha'u'llahs or any Persian Shi'ites or any Muslim Sunnis.
Is this really hard to understand?

 

[Kelly of the Phoenix]

Some of their deaths are related in the Hebraic texts of the time, and would still be known by Yeshua, the Essenes, etc, who rejected the Sanhedrin for this same cause.

The problem remains that Jesus acts like "the Jews" killed all their prophets, when that's not even remotely how it happened. The author's bitterness about Jews shouldn't be treated like, well, "gospel". You and I both have issues with Peter, Paul, and John, so we are already aware that just because it's in there doesn't make it right.

christ will come at the end of time.

And by then it will be too late to care or celebrate. It's like hiding behind a car while there's a school shooter and only "engaging" when everyone's already dead.

 

[JustWondering]

Everything's better with popcorn, especially movie popcorn.


The sad thing is, Jesus could come back and it turns out the bible was less than accurate about what he was. Ten bucks says Christianity would hang him back up on a cross.

If he came back preaching peace and tolerance again I agree that many American "Christians" would call him a lying liberal with a evil socialist agenda, lol.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

christ will come at the end of time.

Good to see you Syo, thanks for dropping by.

That is what this thread is about. The End of the Age was May 22nd AD1844 which was also the year AH1260.

Both these years have been shown to be in Daniel and Revelation, the Two books dedicated to the End Times.

Stay well and happy.

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

If he came back preaching peace and tolerance again I agree that many American "Christians" would call him a lying liberal with a evil socialist agenda, lol.

You got it right, it is what most have done. Many are still unaware that it has happened, thus this thread is your chance to know.

There is an old saying....you can lead a horse to water, but........

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Mt 1:1 The book of the generation of Jesus Christ, the son of David, the son of Abraham.
Mt 1:2 Abraham begat Isaac; and Isaac begat Jacob; and Jacob begat Judah and his brethren;
Mt 1:3 and Judah begat Perez and Zerah of Tamar; and Perez begat Hezron; and Hezron begat Ram;
Mt 1:4 and Ram begat Amminadab; and Amminadab begat Nahshon; and Nahshon begat Salmon;
Mt 1:5 and Salmon begat Boaz of Rahab; and Boaz begat Obed of Ruth; and Obed begat Jesse;
Mt 1:6 and Jesse begat David the king. And David begat Solomon of her that had been the wife of Uriah;
Mt 1:7 and Solomon begat Rehoboam; and Rehoboam begat Abijah; and Abijah begat Asa;
Mt 1:8 and Asa begat Jehoshaphat; and Jehoshaphat begat Joram; and Joram begat Uzziah;
Mt 1:9 and Uzziah begat Jotham; and Jotham begat Ahaz; and Ahaz begat Hezekiah;
Mt 1:10 and Hezekiah begat Manasseh; and Manasseh begat Amon; and Amon begat Josiah;
Mt 1:11 and Josiah begat Jechoniah and his brethren, at the time of the carrying away to Babylon.
Mt 1:12 And after the carrying away to Babylon, Jechoniah begat Shealtiel; and Shealtiel begat Zerubbabel;
Mt 1:13 and Zerubbabel begat Abiud; and Abiud begat Eliakim; and Eliakim begat Azor;
Mt 1:14 and Azor begat Sadoc; and Sadoc begat Achim; and Achim begat Eliud;
Mt 1:15 and Eliud begat Eleazar; and Eleazar begat Matthan; and Matthan begat Jacob;
Mt 1:16 and Jacob begat Joseph the husband of Mary, of whom was born Jesus, who is called Christ.

See if you can find Mírzá Ḥusayn-`Alí Núrí, aka, Baha’u’llah, a Persian Shi'ite, that came from Ishmael and NOT from Isaac here.

Neb that line terminates 2000 years ago, its purpose is in showing the line to Jesus who was the Christ.

Logic would say since this is the case, genealogy that happened after that list and had branched from that list to other persons, would not be on it.

Lines to the Bab and Baha'u'llah have been posted which show the required Biblical lines of connection, as per Prophecy.

Stay well and happy, regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

If Christ returns (or Mohammed, or Joseph Smith, or Baha'u'llah or any of the other revelators of our modern religions) just look for anyone to take on the role of "Grand Inquisitor" (Brothers Karamazov, book 5). In any such event, we will have a modern-day religious "authority" who will make the unwelcome re-interloper go away without a great deal of fuss.

In each and every case, our religions today -- all of them -- have changed enough that their founders wouldn't recognize them, and would therefore rail against them. And goodness knows, we can't have that!

We can indeed have that. That is what this thread is about.

The return has happened, the world is in its judgement day, all of us face this judgement and the Standard we are judged against is to be found in the Writings of the Baha'i faith.

Regards Tony

 

[oldbadger]

So what if Baha’i laws would be imposed, both criminal and civil and be controlled by the above named houses of justice. If they are, they will only be imposed upon Baha’is, not on anyone else. I guess you did not read the fine print.

I know about some of that, but so what? None of this applies to anyone else except Baha’is, so just don’t join and you will be a-okay.

Good, so we have established that you do know that Bahai is a theocracy.......... Religious government, legislation, laws, court systems, and control...... a theocracy.

And we have established that forces would be present to keep order and law.

Now, one post at a time, let me begin to show that a Bahai government would not be pacifist in efforts to control and would use force if required. A kind of Holy force, or holy war, even....

"Such a peace demandeth that the Great Powers should resolve, for the sake of the tranquillity of the peoples of the earth, to be fully reconciled among themselves. Should any king take up arms against another, all should unitedly arise and prevent him. If this be done, the nations of the world will no longer require any armaments, except for the purpose of preserving the security of their realms and of maintaining internal order within their territories. This will ensure the peace and composure of every people, government and nation."
(Baha'u'llah: Gleanings,


"Bahá'ís recognize the right and duty of governments to use force for the maintenance of law and order and to protect their people. Thus, for a Bahá'í, the shedding of blood for such a purpose is not necessarily essentially wrong.

The Bahá'í Faith draws a very definite distinction between the duty of an individual to forgive and "to be killed rather than to kill" and the duty of society to uphold justice. This matter is explained by 'Abdu'l-Bahá in Some Answered Questions.

In the present condition of the world Bahá'ís try to keep themselves out of the internecine conflicts that are raging among their fellow men and to avoid shedding blood in such struggles, but this does not mean that we are absolute pacifists.

Letter from the Universal House of Justice, dated February 9, 1967, to a National Spiritual Assembly

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Good, so we have established that you do know that Bahai is a theocracy.......... Religious government, legislation, laws, court systems, and control...... a theocracy.

You are trying to define a New System with old terminology. The Baha'i Administrative System is not any of the past systems, it contains most likely the best aspects of all of them.

It has been defined in the writings by Shoghi Effendi, but the Future is yet to unfold. Thus your vision is of this age and its turmoil in Government, that will not be the future. The Future will be a unity of the majority that looks out for the welfare of the minority.

This is the wiki link on the Administrative Order - Bahá'í administration - Wikipedia

"Shoghi Effendi wrote that the Bahá'í Administrative Order incorporates within its structure certain elements which are to be found in each of the three recognized forms of secular government: autocracy, aristocracy and democracy. His objective in effectively designing the Bahá'í Administrative Order was to embody, reconcile and assimilate within it "such wholesome elements as are to be found in each one of them..." while excluding the "admitted evils inherent in each of these systems..." such that it "cannot ever degenerate into any form of despotism, of oligarchy, or of demagogy which must sooner or later corrupt the machinery of all man-made and essentially defective political institutions."

So the future will have a role model, It is currently called "The Baha'i Administrative Order", which is organic and will suit the needs of the age it is implemented in. As such only a tiny portion is currently implemented.

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Now, one post at a time, let me begin to show that a Bahai government would not be pacifist in efforts to control and would use force if required. A kind of Holy force, or holy war, even....

"Such a peace demandeth that the Great Powers should resolve, for the sake of the tranquillity of the peoples of the earth, to be fully reconciled among themselves. Should any king take up arms against another, all should unitedly arise and prevent him. If this be done, the nations of the world will no longer require any armaments, except for the purpose of preserving the security of their realms and of maintaining internal order within their territories. This will ensure the peace and composure of every people, government and nation."
(Baha'u'llah: Gleanings,


"Bahá'ís recognize the right and duty of governments to use force for the maintenance of law and order and to protect their people. Thus, for a Bahá'í, the shedding of blood for such a purpose is not necessarily essentially wrong.

The Bahá'í Faith draws a very definite distinction between the duty of an individual to forgive and "to be killed rather than to kill" and the duty of society to uphold justice. This matter is explained by 'Abdu'l-Bahá in Some Answered Questions.

In the present condition of the world Bahá'ís try to keep themselves out of the internecine conflicts that are raging among their fellow men and to avoid shedding blood in such struggles, but this does not mean that we are absolute pacifists.

Letter from the Universal House of Justice, dated February 9, 1967, to a National Spiritual Assembly

Again you see this as the Baha'i Administrative System, it is not. These quotes are advice to the current Governments of the world. They will implement this advice in the future of their own free will.

A Baha'i is a loyal follower of all justly elected Governments.

Regards Tony

 

[ronandcarol]

This thread is simple. This is about the promise of Christ Return.
From a Baha'i point of view this event has happened and was Fulfilled in the Messages of the Bab ("Gate") and Baha'u'llah ("Glory of God", or "Glory of the Lord").
As many await this event, both Christians and Muslims, how did we miss the greatest moment in History to date, would be the over-riding question to consider with this OP.

I have no idea Bahai faith or Muslims say happen, and I would have to agree that all people alive today did indeed miss the greatest moment in History. When Jesus arose from the dead and ascended into Heaven to set on the right side of God the Father, and He has promised that He will come again. He has not yet returned, but His 2nd coming will be witnessed by everyone on the planet. He will come with a host of Angels and all the dead will rise and those who are still alive will rise also to meet Jesus in the air, that will be the 2nd coming of Christ. Don't be deceived, but be ready.
ronandcarol

 

[Trailblazer]

I will be ok because a Baha'i world will not exist in my lifetime, but where a majority of the world is Baha'i and Baha'i laws have been imposed, then outsiders most certainly will be subject to Baha'i laws.

First, I do not know why you think that anyone outside of the Baha'i Faith will be subject to Baha'i Laws. As far as I know, it is in the authoritative writings of the Baha'i Faith that only Baha'is are subject to Baha'i Laws. How could that change at some time in the future unless the Baha'i institutions went against the Baha'i Writings? Why would the Baha'is go against their own Writings? Why would the Baha'is want to impose their Laws on outsiders? What would be their motive?

Regarding Laws, the Baha'i Faith really is no different from the Jewish Faith. Judaism has many Laws that pertain to Jews but they have never imposed those Laws on outsiders.

Second, I do not know why we are even discussing something that is so far in the future. None of us can know what will happen that far into the future, only God knows the future.

Third, you said, where a majority of the world is Baha'i in a future world. Does that mean that you think that the Baha'i Faith is more than just a new age movement that will eventually die out? How could it ever get to a majority if it was not a religion of God?

 

[Trailblazer]

Good, so we have established that you do know that Bahai is a theocracy.......... Religious government, legislation, laws, court systems, and control...... a theocracy.

And we have established that forces would be present to keep order and law.

Now, one post at a time, let me begin to show that a Bahai government would not be pacifist in efforts to control and would use force if required. A kind of Holy force, or holy war, even....

"Such a peace demandeth that the Great Powers should resolve, for the sake of the tranquillity of the peoples of the earth, to be fully reconciled among themselves. Should any king take up arms against another, all should unitedly arise and prevent him. If this be done, the nations of the world will no longer require any armaments, except for the purpose of preserving the security of their realms and of maintaining internal order within their territories. This will ensure the peace and composure of every people, government and nation."
(Baha'u'llah: Gleanings,

So, in this passage it says that the Great Powers will resolve things among themselves. It says that is what is required if we are ever to have peace on earth. It says nothing about the Baha'is stepping in, let alone using force. In The Kitáb-i-Aqdas – The Most Holy Book, Holy war has been abrogated. It is strictly forbidden.

In another Tablet Bahá’u’lláh stresses the importance of fellowship with the followers of all religions; He also states that “the law of holy war hath been blotted out from the Book”.
The Kitáb-i-Aqdas, p. 241

 

[Trailblazer]

See if you can find Mírzá Ḥusayn-`Alí Núrí, aka, Baha’u’llah, a Persian Shi'ite, that came from Ishmael and NOT from Isaac here.

Note where Jesus Christ is on this chart. His lineage stops when he dies. So it is a moot point where anyone came out of, although the chart shows that. The Divine Standard Unfurled : Genealogy of Baha'u'llah

Jesus died and never rose and ascended so Jesus can never be the Messiah of the latter days.
You can keep believing that Jesus is going to return but that will not make Jesus return.

 

[Faithofchristian]

This thread is simple. This is about the promise of Christ Return.

From a Baha'i point of view this event has happened and was Fulfilled in the Messages of the Bab ("Gate") and Baha'u'llah ("Glory of God", or "Glory of the Lord").

As many await this event, both Christians and Muslims, how did we miss the greatest moment in History to date, would be the over-riding question to consider with this OP.

View attachment 20526

But lets go for a further three options;

What should have we looked for?
What are you still waiting for?
Why are you sitting with popcorn?

There are 4 things to look for.
When Christ Jesus returns.

Three of these are found in the book of Revelation.

The other one is found in 1 Corinthians.

 

[Trailblazer]

There are 4 things to look for.
When Christ Jesus returns.

Three of these are found in the book of Revelation.

The other one is found in 1 Corinthians.

What are they?

 

[TransmutingSoul]

I have no idea Bahai faith or Muslims say happen, and I would have to agree that all people alive today did indeed miss the greatest moment in History. When Jesus arose from the dead and ascended into Heaven to set on the right side of God the Father, and He has promised that He will come again. He has not yet returned, but His 2nd coming will be witnessed by everyone on the planet. He will come with a host of Angels and all the dead will rise and those who are still alive will rise also to meet Jesus in the air, that will be the 2nd coming of Christ. Don't be deceived, but be ready.
ronandcarol

Thank you ronandcarol. I would offer the deception had been great, it is of our own making.

Consider if what Baha'u'llah offered, is what Christianity has waited for, the deception was complete.

Regards Tony

 

[Buddha Dharma]

but Mírzá Ḥusayn-`Alí Núrí, aka, Baha’u’llah, a Persian Shi'ite, who came from Ishmael and NOT from Isaac is NOT or was not mentioned at all in the bible

Do you think that the Bible teaches that it's covenant has nothing to do with Ishmael or his descendants? Because you'd be incorrect. The Bible itself affirms Ishmael was circumcised and brought into the covenant. According to Paul's very own claims, whom Christians typically follow- that made Ishmael part of the covenant of Israel.

When I read the Bible, that was one of the details that stuck out to me from what I usually hear Christians say about Ishmael having no part in the covenant. The Bible says he did.

I believe Shi'ite Muslims also claim the Bible prophesies the 12 Imams by saying 12 princes will come from Ishmael's line.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

There are 4 things to look for.
When Christ Jesus returns.

Three of these are found in the book of Revelation.

The other one is found in 1 Corinthians.

It would be good for you to list your 4 things as If my post is correct and Christ has indeed returned, then the 4 things you wait for have happened, would you like to know how?

Regards Tony