China Defends Muslim Detentions as Vital for Stability

[Vee]

I've been seeing a lot of reports lately about China arresting Muslims and sending them to camps where they are brain washed into renouncing their faith and worshiping the communist party instead of their god.
Today there was this article in the WSJ: China, Ending Denials, Defends Muslim Detentions as Vital for Stability.
I find it particular appalling their claim that some Muslims chose to go to the "reeducation camps". Right! Who wouldn't dream of being stuck in a place like that?
People who came back from those camps tell horror stories about the punishments endured when they refuse to renounce their faith.
Most of us weren't yet born in 1940, but we all know what happened back then. Is history repeating itself?
China's oppression of religious groups is nothing new, but they've been escalating lately, not just against Muslims, but their situation is particularly bad.
Aljazeera did a good piece about this as well. starts at 12 minutes into the video:

Any thoughts?

 

[Jumi]

They want to "build a wall" between the Province and rest of China. Whether it's figurative or not, is unknown.

China: Xi Jinping wants ‘Great Wall of Steel’ in violence-hit Xinjiang

 

[Nakosis]

I've been seeing a lot of reports lately about China arresting Muslims and sending them to camps where they are brain washed into renouncing their faith and worshiping the communist party instead of their god.
Today there was this article in the WSJ: China, Ending Denials, Defends Muslim Detentions as Vital for Stability.
I find it particular appalling their claim that some Muslims chose to go to the "reeducation camps". Right! Who wouldn't dream of being stuck in a place like that?
People who came back from those camps tell horror stories about the punishments endured when they refuse to renounce their faith.
Most of us weren't yet born in 1940, but we all know what happened back then. Is history repeating itself?
China's oppression of religious groups is nothing new, but they've been escalating lately, not just against Muslims, but their situation is particularly bad.
Aljazeera did a good piece about this as well. starts at 12 minutes into the video:

Any thoughts?

Do you think Islam opposes secular rule? Just fundamentally, not as an active rebellon, just something that if they had a chance to, they'd try to implement?

Maybe it's true, maybe not but I suspect that is the fear China faces.

 

[Spiderman]

The European Union might start doing that, once they realize it becomes necessary for survival, such instincts may kick in.

https://www.politico.eu/article/with-anti-muslim-laws-france-denmark-europe-enters-new-dark-age/

 

[Vee]

Do you think Islam opposes secular rule? Just fundamentally, not as an active rebellon, just something that if they had a chance to, they'd try to implement?

Maybe it's true, maybe not but I suspect that is the fear China faces.

Maybe, but what right does anyone have to punish people for a crime they hypothetically would commit if they had the opportunity?
I'm not a fan of the Muslim culture, on the contrary, but I can't agree that their human rights should be violated because some of them are radicals and turn violent. China would be right to find the ones that do bad things and put them in jail after a fair trial (not sure if that exists over there), but jail entire families in concentration camps? No, I can't find a justification for that:

 

[Jumi]

The European Union might start doing that, once they realize it becomes necessary for survival, such instincts may kick in.

https://www.politico.eu/article/with-anti-muslim-laws-france-denmark-europe-enters-new-dark-age/

It didn't work out well in Europe the last times something like that was done.

 

[Nakosis]

Maybe, but what right does anyone have to punish people for a crime they hypothetically would commit if they had the opportunity?
I'm not a fan of the Muslim culture, on the contrary, but I can't agree that their human rights should be violated because some of them are radicals and turn violent. China would be right to find the ones that do bad things and put them in jail after a fair trial (not sure if that exists over there), but jail entire families in concentration camps? No, I can't find a justification for that:

Socialist countries seem to feel a need to enforce conformity. (snarky comment)

Isn't this what the US does with Iran? Use sanctions as punishment for what we are afraid they might do? While I'd probably agree with you China is not alone in this behavior.

 

[Spiderman]

It didn't work out well in Europe the last times something like that was done.

Not at all...

 

[Audie]

Maybe, but what right does anyone have to punish people for a crime they hypothetically would commit if they had the opportunity?
I'm not a fan of the Muslim culture, on the contrary, but I can't agree that their human rights should be violated because some of them are radicals and turn violent. China would be right to find the ones that do bad things and put them in jail after a fair trial (not sure if that exists over there), but jail entire families in concentration camps? No, I can't find a justification for that:

The 19th century civil war in China
lasted 15 years, overlapping the American
Civil War, resulted in 30,000,000 dead.

Equal to the entire population of the US in 1860!

The person who led it was inspired by none
other than your Christian Bible!!

Not that it was exactly the only civil war
China has suffered. There was a vastly
destructive one well within living memory, for
example-one made far worse by American
meddling in support of the christian
Chiang Kai-shek.

The Moslems are far worse about sponsoring
terrorism and war than christians are.

Any sane and responsible governmant in
China is going to be touchy about anti-
social elements.

When the polite, gentle p.c. way of
fighting a war, or preventing one is
devised, I am sure Beijing will be
interested.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Well, the Chinese government isn't known for respecting human rights. China is a polluted backwards authoritarian craphole.

Why am I not surprised that some people in here are basically excusing this? More evidence of RF's hatred of Muslims.

 

[lewisnotmiller]

Well, the Chinese government isn't known for respecting human rights. China is a polluted backwards authoritarian craphole.

Why am I not surprised that some people in here are basically excusing this? More evidence of RF's hatred of Muslims.

RF doesn't have an opinion, but is a collection of people and opinions, @Saint Frankenstein.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

RF doesn't have an opinion, but is a collection of people and opinions, @Saint Frankenstein.

Yes, and most of those opinions are biased against Islam. You even have a staff member who insults it.

 

[lewisnotmiller]

Yes, and most of those opinions are biased against Islam. You even have a staff member who insults it.

My point remains.
I'm a little sensitive towards people telling me what opinions are held by loose collectives I'm part of.
Are you not, now, part of RF?

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

My point remains.
I'm a little sensitive towards people telling me what opinions are held by loose collectives I'm part of.
Are you not, now, part of RF?

My point remains, too. I'm a minority when it comes to that. This board is not welcoming to Muslims. You have a staff member who calls Islam a "mental disease". If you'll notice, there's hardly any Muslims who post. Many of the regulars have left or only post once in a while.

 

[lewisnotmiller]

My point remains, too. I'm a minority when it comes to that. This board is not welcoming to Muslims. You have a staff member who calls Islam a "mental disease". If you'll notice, there's hardly any Muslims who post. Many of the regulars have left or only post once in a while.

It hasn't always been the case that you've been super welcoming to Islam, Frank.
People do change.

As for why we have a relatively small number of Muslims posting here, I think there are numerous reasons for it, which would include general attitudes towards Islam, and particularly a propensity to put all Muslims in a single bucket. I also think language, and a general willingness to associate and debate Islam with non-Muslims and particularly non-Abrahamaics is part of the reason.

There is a tendency for Quranists or Baha'i to find it easier going here I think.

But that's just me.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

It hasn't always been the case that you've been super welcoming to Islam, Frank.
People do change.

As for why we have a relatively small number of Muslims posting here, I think there are numerous reasons for it, which would include general attitudes towards Islam, and particularly a propensity to put all Muslims in a single bucket. I also think language, and a general willingness to associate and debate Islam with non-Muslims and particularly non-Abrahamaics is part of the reason.

There is a tendency for Quranists or Baha'i to find it easier going here I think.

But that's just me.

At least you admit that at least some of the problem is the attitude of users on this board.

 

[lewisnotmiller]

At least you admit that at least some of the problem is the attitude of users on this board.

Right or wrong, I try to be honest as I see things.

 

[Vee]

The 19th century civil war in China
lasted 15 years, overlapping the American
Civil War, resulted in 30,000,000 dead.

Equal to the entire population of the US in 1860!

The person who led it was inspired by none
other than your Christian Bible!!

The person leading that war picked up the bible for inspiration like they could have picked something else. When people want to make war if there is no reason they fabricate one. The Bible has been used as an excuse for many crimes because it was convenient for the perpetrators. That isn't the fault of the Bible itself or of the other millions of people who believe it and never hurt anyone.
Some Muslims are terrorists, I suspect most aren't. Should we jail them all just in case?

 

[Vee]

More evidence of RF's hatred of Muslims.

Sorry but that's not true. We each express our individuals thoughts and feelings. There isn't a collective attitude against any particular group.
Any Muslims or people from any other religious background who want to participate in RF are very welcome as long as they remain open minded, respectful and follow the rules that have been established for all members of the forum.
Take care.

Vee

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Sorry but that's not true. We each express our individuals thoughts and feelings. There isn't a collective attitude against any particular group.
Any Muslims or people from any other religious background who want to participate in RF are very welcome as long as they remain open minded, respectful and follow the rules that have been established for all members of the forum.
Take care.

Vee

Yeah, well, I'm not seeing that at all so we'll disagee there.