Challenge for those that believe in billions of years for the age of things. Give anything that is more than 6000 years old. NO ASSUMPTIONS ALLOWED.

[SavedByTheLord]

Holy mind bending irrational confusion.

"God witnessed it" ? Thats not what is being talked about when talking "Eye-wittness" .. we are not talking "everything in the Bible being God Breathed" ..which also false nonsense which makes God a Liar but -- this is not what is being discussed.

The person that wrote down the story .. was not an eye-witness -- and for many parts of the Bible we know the person writing the story was not an eye-witness ... there is no eye-witness accounts of Jesus for example .. The folks writing the story were not disciples. For example - the earliest story of Jesus we have is from the Gospel of Mark - While we don't know exactly who wrote this gospel or what source material he used .. Tradition holds that he was an student of Peter -- which is not an eyewitness account .. but it is as close as we get in the NT to an eye-witness account of Jesus.

The next Gospel "Matt" .. this author "obviously not an eye-witness" uses near all of Mark as a source document .. leaving out only a few passages .. which happen to be derogatory to Jesus and/or the disciples .. .. a small "Pious Fraud" .. but never the less .. "Not an eye-witness account"

Now perhaps the author of Matt had some source documents other than Mark that were composed by an eye-witness .. and that would be nice .. the author himself however was not an eye- witness .. and the fact that God may have witnessed it has absolutely no bearing on the issue.

Did you not know the Bible contains lies friend ? how could you not know this .. and at the same time claim to be a student of the Bible ?

I have a Bible, the King James Bible. It is also online.
There is nothing of that in the book I have,
That ruse has been tried by other sand dismissed.

 

[It Aint Necessarily So]

Here is simple challenge for those that believe in billions of years for the age of things. Give anything that is more than 6000 years old. NO ASSUMPTIONS ALLOWED.

Sorry, but I don't play that game with creationists any longer - the let's-see-if-you-can-make-me-believe-what-I-have a stake-in-not-understanding. 'See if you can penetrate my faith-based confirmation bias without my cooperation. I double dare you!'

You're not ready to learn the science. You'd need to be a critical thinker with an open mind to be taught the science that contradicts your faith.

And really, it's just fine that you hold such beliefs. I have no desire to talk you out of them.

Your turn. Name a galaxy that's less than 6000 years old. NO ASSUMPTIONS ALLOWED.

Science is knowledge.

Science contradicts what you believe by faith.

 

[SavedByTheLord]

Sorry, but I don't play that game with creationists any longer - the let's-see-if-you-can-make-me-believe-what-I-have a stake-in-not-understanding. 'See if you can penetrate my faith-based confirmation bias without my cooperation. I double dare you!'

You're not ready to learn the science. You'd need to be a critical thinker with an open mind to be taught the science that contradicts your faith.

And really, it's just fine that you hold such beliefs. I have no desire to talk you out of them.

Your turn. Name a galaxy that's less than 6000 years old. NO ASSUMPTIONS ALLOWED.

Science contradicts what you believe by faith.

All of them.

 

[F1fan]

I have a Bible, the King James Bible. It is also online.
There is nothing of that in the book I have,
That ruse has been tried by other sand dismissed.

Why assume you are interpreting it correctly?

 

[SavedByTheLord]

Why assume you are interpreting it correctly?

So six days means what?

 

[Alien826]

Declaring yourself victorious doesn't make it so, but it does make you sound conceited.

It's how the Gish gallop works.

- Present a claim.
- The responder starts to answer.
- Present another claim while the responder is still talking.
- The responder tries to reply to both.
- Present another claim.
- Repeat for a while.
- Eventually the responder gives up.
- Claim victory ("See, you can't answer any of my points!").

Except that in this case all the claims were presented all at once, which makes it a lot less effective.

Here's an idea. Why don't both sides agree on one claim to discuss, then go into it in detail? Nobody is going to tackle the whole list in the detail needed to either establish or refute the truth of all the claims, life is too short.

 

[SavedByTheLord]

It's how the Gish gallop works.

- Present a claim.
- The responder starts to answer.
- Present another claim while the responder is still talking.
- The responder tries to reply to both.
- Present another claim.
- Repeat for a while.
- Eventually the responder gives up.
- Claim victory ("See, you can't answer any of my points!").

Except that in this case all the claims were presented all at once, which makes it a lot less effective.

Here's an idea. Why don't both sides agree on one claim to discuss, then go into it in detail? Nobody is going to tackle the whole list in the detail needed to either establish or refute the truth of all the claims, life is too short.

Nobody has yet answered satisfactory.
And will they agree to stop the personal attacks like name calling.
Better yet the evolutionist can only have 1 person posting, at a time.

Any evolutionist that break the rules is removed from this discussion unless they admit that they did wrong.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Just a bunch of false accusations.
Young Earth Creationsts do not call God a liar. Newton, Pascal and dozens more never did.
They just reject your false theories.

Not one. All are factual. And yes, you regularly claim that God is a liar. This has been explained to you. But since you are scientifically illiterate you do not understand how you do that. That is why I repeatedly offer to go over the basics of science with you.

 

[SavedByTheLord]

Not one. All are factual. And yes, you regularly claim that God is a liar. This has been explained to you. But since you are scientifically illiterate you do not understand how you do that. That is why I repeatedly offer to go over the basics of science with you.

More false accusations.

God created all things, the universe and the earth in 6 days, about 6000 years – the Bible and real science prove this is true

God created man by a direct act and not through evolution from lower life forms. This is clear from the following passages.

26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth. 27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them. - Gen 1:26-27

7 And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.21 And the Lord God caused a deep sleep to fall upon Adam, and he slept: and he took one of his ribs, and closed up the flesh instead thereof;22 And the rib, which the Lord God had taken from man, made he a woman, and brought her unto the man.23 And Adam said, This is now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh: she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man. – Gen 2:7,21-23

The age of the earth is easily determined from the Bible, which is the true word of God. In Genesis 1, it is clear that God created all things, including the earth, the universe, the sun, the moon, the stars, all life and of course Adam and Eve on the 6th day. To determine the age of the earth, extensive genealogies are given along with the age at which each father begat the named sun. Historical kings are mentioned in the book of Daniel and elsewhere in the Old Testament. The command to rebuild the temple and the 70-week prophecy in Daniel gives 70x7=490 yrs. The Biblical precept of a day is a year is found in Numbers where the Israelites were punished to wander 40 years in the desert, a year for each day since they spied out the land of the Canaanites and did not believe what God could do.

Usher and Isaac Newton followed the same logic, and both determined the earth to have been created about 6000 years ago. There are others who have done the same thing. All the logic, all the real science and all the facts also confirm that the earth and everything in it is about 6000 years old.

Light is created early on the first day and separated from darkness. Thus, there is directional light from the very beginning. This is even before the sun is created on the 4th day. Directional light plus a rotating earth gives night and day. Thus, the days below are very close to 24 hrs. That is shown by the 6x “the evening and the morning” are used. The ordinal count of days also proves that these are 24-hour days.

5 … And the evening and the morning were the first day. 8 … And the evening and the morning were the second day. 13 And the evening and the morning were the third day. 19 And the evening and the morning were the fourth day. 23 And the evening and the morning were the fifth day. 31 And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day. Gen 1:5,8,13,19,23,31

God created all things in 6 days. He did it, knows how it was done and knows when it was done. So, God’s eyewitness testimony is 100% true. All supposed “science”, which disagrees, is therefore false. God spoke with His mouth 2x and wrote with His finger 2x the following. By the way Christ may have written the 10 commandants with His finger in the sand. He certainly used that to teach as it says “all taught of God” in John 6:45.

1 And God spake all these words, saying, 11 For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the Lord blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it. - Exo 20:1,11

17 It is a sign between me and the children of Israel for ever: for in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, and on the seventh day he rested, and was refreshed. 18 And he gave unto Moses, when he had made an end of communing with him upon mount Sinai, two tables of testimony, tables of stone, written with the finger of God. - Exo 31:17-18

And the tables were the work of God, and the writing was the writing of God, graven upon the tables. - Exo 32:16

And the Lord said unto Moses, Hew thee two tables of stone like unto the first: and I will write upon these tables the words that were in the first tables, which thou brakest. - Exo 34:1

The Lord Jesus Christ, who created all things in 6 days about 6000 years ago, was there, did it and knows when it happened. The following 4 passages shows that Jesus Christ believed in 6-day recent creation. Many times throughout the Bible, creation, the fall, Cain and Abel, and the flood are spoken as real events.

4 And he answered and said unto them, Have ye not read, that he which made them at the beginning made them male and female, 5 And said, For this cause shall a man leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife: and they twain shall be one flesh? - Matt 19:4-5

6 But from the beginning of the creation God made them male and female. 7 For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and cleave to his wife; 8 And they twain shall be one flesh: so then they are no more twain, but one flesh. 9 What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder. - Mark 10:6-9

As he spake by the mouth of his holy prophets, which have been since the world began: - Luke 1:70

50 That the blood of all the prophets, which was shed from the foundation of the world, may be required of this generation; 51 From the blood of Abel unto the blood of Zacharias which perished between the altar and the temple: verily I say unto you, It shall be required of this generation. - Luke11:50-51

For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse: - Rom 1:20

A man names Henry Morris, a creation scientist, said that if you deny 6-day recent creation, you will also have to deny the worldwide flood in Noah’s day. The Atheistic Origin “Scientists” with there no God assumption will just not allow God, period. See the topic “Don’t be conned with the no God Assumption of Atheistic Origin Science”.

 

[Subduction Zone]

I have a Bible, the King James Bible. It is also online.
There is nothing of that in the book I have,
That ruse has been tried by other sand dismissed.

The King James version uses dated English that you probably do not understand and it is far from being the most accurate translation.

 

[SavedByTheLord]

The King James version uses dated English that you probably do not understand and it is far from being the most accurate translation.

I do understand it. Without error too,

 

[Subduction Zone]

More false accusations.

God created all things, the universe and the earth in 6 days, about 6000 years – the Bible and real science prove this is true

God created man by a direct act and not through evolution from lower life forms. This is clear from the following passages.

26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth. 27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them. - Gen 1:26-27

7 And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.21 And the Lord God caused a deep sleep to fall upon Adam, and he slept: and he took one of his ribs, and closed up the flesh instead thereof;22 And the rib, which the Lord God had taken from man, made he a woman, and brought her unto the man.23 And Adam said, This is now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh: she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man. – Gen 2:7,21-23

The age of the earth is easily determined from the Bible, which is the true word of God. In Genesis 1, it is clear that God created all things, including the earth, the universe, the sun, the moon, the stars, all life and of course Adam and Eve on the 6th day. To determine the age of the earth, extensive genealogies are given along with the age at which each father begat the named sun. Historical kings are mentioned in the book of Daniel and elsewhere in the Old Testament. The command to rebuild the temple and the 70-week prophecy in Daniel gives 70x7=490 yrs. The Biblical precept of a day is a year is found in Numbers where the Israelites were punished to wander 40 years in the desert, a year for each day since they spied out the land of the Canaanites and did not believe what God could do.

Usher and Isaac Newton followed the same logic, and both determined the earth to have been created about 6000 years ago. There are others who have done the same thing. All the logic, all the real science and all the facts also confirm that the earth and everything in it is about 6000 years old.

Light is created early on the first day and separated from darkness. Thus, there is directional light from the very beginning. This is even before the sun is created on the 4th day. Directional light plus a rotating earth gives night and day. Thus, the days below are very close to 24 hrs. That is shown by the 6x “the evening and the morning” are used. The ordinal count of days also proves that these are 24-hour days.

5 … And the evening and the morning were the first day. 8 … And the evening and the morning were the second day. 13 And the evening and the morning were the third day. 19 And the evening and the morning were the fourth day. 23 And the evening and the morning were the fifth day. 31 And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day. Gen 1:5,8,13,19,23,31

God created all things in 6 days. He did it, knows how it was done and knows when it was done. So, God’s eyewitness testimony is 100% true. All supposed “science”, which disagrees, is therefore false. God spoke with His mouth 2x and wrote with His finger 2x the following. By the way Christ may have written the 10 commandants with His finger in the sand. He certainly used that to teach as it says “all taught of God” in John 6:45.

1 And God spake all these words, saying, 11 For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the Lord blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it. - Exo 20:1,11

17 It is a sign between me and the children of Israel for ever: for in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, and on the seventh day he rested, and was refreshed. 18 And he gave unto Moses, when he had made an end of communing with him upon mount Sinai, two tables of testimony, tables of stone, written with the finger of God. - Exo 31:17-18

And the tables were the work of God, and the writing was the writing of God, graven upon the tables. - Exo 32:16

And the Lord said unto Moses, Hew thee two tables of stone like unto the first: and I will write upon these tables the words that were in the first tables, which thou brakest. - Exo 34:1

The Lord Jesus Christ, who created all things in 6 days about 6000 years ago, was there, did it and knows when it happened. The following 4 passages shows that Jesus Christ believed in 6-day recent creation. Many times throughout the Bible, creation, the fall, Cain and Abel, and the flood are spoken as real events.

4 And he answered and said unto them, Have ye not read, that he which made them at the beginning made them male and female, 5 And said, For this cause shall a man leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife: and they twain shall be one flesh? - Matt 19:4-5

6 But from the beginning of the creation God made them male and female. 7 For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and cleave to his wife; 8 And they twain shall be one flesh: so then they are no more twain, but one flesh. 9 What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder. - Mark 10:6-9

As he spake by the mouth of his holy prophets, which have been since the world began: - Luke 1:70

50 That the blood of all the prophets, which was shed from the foundation of the world, may be required of this generation; 51 From the blood of Abel unto the blood of Zacharias which perished between the altar and the temple: verily I say unto you, It shall be required of this generation. - Luke11:50-51

For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse: - Rom 1:20

A man names Henry Morris, a creation scientist, said that if you deny 6-day recent creation, you will also have to deny the worldwide flood in Noah’s day. The Atheistic Origin “Scientists” with there no God assumption will just not allow God, period. See the topic “Don’t be conned with the no God Assumption of Atheistic Origin Science”.

No, those are just quotes from a book of myths. If you want to refute me you either have to prove that the Bible is reliable, or use real science, and you refuse to learn what that is.

I know that you don't mean to, but you still call your God a liar regularly.

 

[Subduction Zone]

I do understand it. Without error too,

You keep demonstrating that that is false.

 

[SavedByTheLord]

You

Just more trash.

 

[Sgt. Pepper]

Holy mind bending irrational confusion.

"God witnessed it" ? Thats not what is being talked about when talking "Eye-wittness" .. we are not talking "everything in the Bible being God Breathed" ..which also false nonsense which makes God a Liar but -- this is not what is being discussed.

The person that wrote down the story .. was not an eye-witness -- and for many parts of the Bible we know the person writing the story was not an eye-witness ... there is no eye-witness accounts of Jesus for example .. The folks writing the story were not disciples. For example - the earliest story of Jesus we have is from the Gospel of Mark - While we don't know exactly who wrote this gospel or what source material he used .. Tradition holds that he was an student of Peter -- which is not an eyewitness account .. but it is as close as we get in the NT to an eye-witness account of Jesus.

The next Gospel "Matt" .. this author "obviously not an eye-witness" uses near all of Mark as a source document .. leaving out only a few passages .. which happen to be derogatory to Jesus and/or the disciples .. .. a small "Pious Fraud" .. but never the less .. "Not an eye-witness account"

Now perhaps the author of Matt had some source documents other than Mark that were composed by an eye-witness .. and that would be nice .. the author himself however was not an eye- witness .. and the fact that God may have witnessed it has absolutely no bearing on the issue.

Did you not know the Bible contains lies friend ? how could you not know this .. and at the same time claim to be a student of the Bible ?

Well said, Sargonski.

According to the Christian theological and apologetic websites I read online, the Bible was authored over a period of 1,500 years by forty men, from three continents, and in three languages: Hebrew, everyday Greek (called "Koine"), and Aramaic (an ancient language originating in Syria). And that's not to mention the number of times the Bible has been translated into different languages. I searched online to find out how many English versions of the Bible are now in print, and the results ranged from 50 to more than 60 (see the search results here). With all of that in mind, which Bible should we read? Should we read the Catholic Bible, with a 73-book canon; the Greek Orthodox Bible, with a 79-book canon; or the Protestant Bible, with a 66-book canon? If it's a Protestant Bible, then we have to decide which version is more accurate. Is it the King James Version or one of the other English versions? Or perhaps we should read the Bible in its original languages of Greek, Hebrew, and Aramaic to ensure its authenticity? Finally, the following articles provide a plenitude of examples of why I believe that the Bible is riddled with contradictions and why it should never be used to form a personal understanding of morality.

Violence in the Bible: Greatest Hits

101 Clear Contradictions In The Bible

10 Christ-Like Figures that Predate Jesus

The Bible is Fiction: A Collection of Evidence

Other Gods That Rose From the Dead in Spring Before Jesus Christ

BibViz Project-Bible Contradictions, Misogyny, Violence, Inaccuracies interactively visualized

Personally, I think that we should take whatever is written in the Bible with a grain of salt. As far as I am concerned, the Bible is chock full of contradictions, such as the scriptures that claim that God never changes. For instance, Numbers 23:19 states, "God is not a man, that he should lie, or a son of man, that he should change his mind. Has he said it, and will he not do it? Or has he spoken, and will he not fulfill it?" And Malachi 3:6 also states, "I the Lord do not change; therefore you, O children of Jacob, are not consumed." However, other verses imply that God changes his mind (Jeremiah 18:5–10; Joel 2:13; Jonah 4:2), describe God changing his mind (Exodus 32:14; Amos 7:3, 6; Jonah 3:10), or assume that God will change his mind (Jeremiah 26:3; Joel 2:14; Jonah 3:9).

Amos 7:3 "The Lord changed His mind about this. "It shall not be," said the LORD.

Amos 7:6 "The Lord changed His mind about this. "This too shall not be," said the Lord God.

Exodus 32:14 "So the Lord changed His mind about the harm that He said He would do to His people."

 

[Alien826]

Who observed the bb?
And of course, any discoveries are made public through the scientific method , if your media choses to ignore them it is hardly the fault of scoence

Plus, something like this is not particularly interesting to the average person. They either see it as too hard to understand, or irrelevant to their day to day lives.

 

[SavedByTheLord]

Well said, Sargonski.

According to the Christian theological and apologetic websites I read online, the Bible was authored over a period of 1,500 years by forty men, from three continents, and in three languages: Hebrew, everyday Greek (called "Koine"), and Aramaic (an ancient language originating in Syria). And that's not to mention the number of times the Bible has been translated into different languages. I searched online to find out how many English versions of the Bible are now in print, and the results ranged from 50 to more than 60 (see the search results here). With all of that in mind, which Bible should we read? Should we read the Catholic Bible, with a 73-book canon; the Greek Orthodox Bible, with a 79-book canon; or the Protestant Bible, with a 66-book canon? If it's a Protestant Bible, then we have to decide which version is more accurate. Is it the King James Version or one of the other English versions? Or perhaps we should read the Bible in its original languages of Greek, Hebrew, and Aramaic to ensure its authenticity? The following articles provide a plenitude of examples of why I believe that the Bible is riddled with contradictions and why it should never be used to form a personal understanding of morality.

Violence in the Bible: Greatest Hits

101 Clear Contradictions In The Bible

10 Christ-Like Figures that Predate Jesus

The Bible is Fiction: A Collection of Evidence

Other Gods That Rose From the Dead in Spring Before Jesus Christ

BibViz Project-Bible Contradictions, Misogyny, Violence, Inaccuracies interactively visualized

Personally, I think that we should take whatever is written in the Bible with a grain of salt. As far as I am concerned, the Bible is chock full of contradictions, such as the scriptures that claim that God never changes. For instance, Numbers 23:19 states, "God is not a man, that he should lie, or a son of man, that he should change his mind. Has he said it, and will he not do it? Or has he spoken, and will he not fulfill it?" And Malachi 3:6 also states, "I the Lord do not change; therefore you, O children of Jacob, are not consumed." However, other verses imply that God changes his mind (Jeremiah 18:5–10; Joel 2:13; Jonah 4:2), describe God changing his mind (Exodus 32:14; Amos 7:3, 6; Jonah 3:10), or assume that God will change his mind (Jeremiah 26:3; Joel 2:14; Jonah 3:9).

Amos 7:3 "The Lord changed His mind about this. "It shall not be," said the LORD.

Amos 7:6 "The Lord changed His mind about this. "This too shall not be," said the Lord God.

Exodus 32:14 "So the Lord changed His mind about the harm that He said He would do to His people."

Yes people are and were wicked but God told the truth about them.
And yes God did punish some of them.
Devil knows Christ from his creation by God.
Bible is historical
Please put up some contradictions.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Just more trash.

Aahh! Don't be so hard on yourself.

Even you can learn if you try.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Yes people are and were wicked but God told the truth about them.
And yes God did punish some of them.
Devil knows Christ from his creation by God.
Bible is historical
Please put up some contradictions.

Matthew and Luke have a ten year difference between the date of Jesus's birth in their Nativity myths.

 

[Alien826]

The Bible is true and I believe what it says.

And there we have it. The whole argument in one sentence.