catholics, orthodox, and protestants: can you explain the trinity?

[Starlight]

Meandflower,the bible teaches that the the three entities of the trinity compose of creator, savior, and spirit. The crux of their relationship is divinity.

I've only heard a handful of christians say Jesus is the creator. Most at least in the church do not teach that.

Trinity in scripture is a relationship that make three into a unity.

Are you asking for a nonbiblical definition?

Wrong. The Bible do NOT teach three gods. The Bible teach only one God.

Jews believe God is only one Being and one person. But christians believe God is only one Being and three persons.

So jews believe in strict monotheism and christians believe in soft monotheism

The Bible do NOT support the belief in three gods\entities\beings

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Wrong. The Bible do NOT teach three gods. The Bible teach only one God.

Jews believe God is only one Being and one person. But christians believe God is only one Being and three persons.

So jews believe in strict monotheism and christians believe in soft monotheism

The Bible do NOT support the belief in three gods\entities\beings

What's wrong?

I can list where the bible talks about relationship between creator, Jesus, and the spirit thereof.

Are you looking for a fundamentalist definition that says Jesus is the creator itself?

 

[Starlight]

1. There Is Only One God That Exists

Foundational to the doctrine of the Trinity is the biblical teaching of the existence of only one God. No other divine being has real existence. Trinitarians, or those who believe in the Trinity, are emphatic that only one God exists.

Furthermore the essence of God cannot be divided. God, by nature, is spirit; He has no physical form. It is not possible to divide up spirit. The God of the Bible is one single eternal, infinite being who is indivisible or impossible to divide.

2. There Are Three Distinct Persons Who Exist (The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit)

Scripture is also clear there are three distinct Persons who exist. They are God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit. The Father is not the Son, the Son is not the Holy Spirit, and the Holy Spirit is not the Father.

For example, Jesus prayed to God the Father, He did not pray to Himself. At His baptism the voice of the Father spoke in an approving way of Jesus, it was not Jesus who spoke of Himself. Therefore the three Persons should not be confused with one another.

How Can There Be One God in Three Persons? by Don Stewart

 

[Starlight]

What's wrong?

I can list where the bible talks about relationship between creator, Jesus, and the spirit thereof.

Are you looking for a fundamentalist definition that says Jesus is the creator itself?

Well according to most christians in the world God is only one Being shared by three persons.

Tritheism, the belief that God is three beings\gods is a heresy according to most christians in the world.

Both catholics, ortodox, and many protestants agree about that

 

[Vouthon]

Catholics, ortodox, protestants can you explain the trinity in this tread? Explain the trinity in the way you understand it

Catholic.

I understand the Trinity to be the belief that there exists only one eternal and infinite Creator God, the transcendent origin and first principle of all things.

This supreme reality is perfectly unitary and single in essence, being and substance; yet He relates to Himself in three subsisting relations - or instantiations - of the one divine essence to Itself.

As such, the Trinitarian aspect is not about God as he relates or reveals Himself to us but rather as He is in Himself, in his divine life: how He relates to Himself and in what ways, namely through these three eternal relations, which subsist - that is "really exist" - in the one divine nature.

These eternal relations of origin are known distinctly as the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit.

The Father is God as the unbegotten or unoriginate (akin to the Mind in St. Augustine's psychological analogy, that which generates thoughts and mental images), the Son is God as the generated self-image of the Father (i.e. the begotten, the knowledge with which God knows Himself, hence we also call Him the Word) and the Holy Spirit is God as the bond of love proceeding from the two (i.e. the spirated, the love with which God loves Himself).

One God, like a perfect circle whose center is everywhere (omnipresent) and circumference nowhere (utterly transcendent and unknowable except to Himself, in the inner life of the Trinity).

So, we say that He - this singular Divine Being - is one in essence but three in "hypostases" (subsisting relations of that one being to Himself), otherwise translated into English somewhat inarticulately as "persons".

 

[Starlight]

Catholic.

I understand the Trinity to be the belief that there exists only one single, eternal Creator God, the transcendent origin and first principle of all things.

This supreme reality is perfectly unitary in essence, being and substance, yet relates to Himself in three subsisting relations - or instantiations - of the one divine essence to Itself.

These eternal relations of origin are called the Father, Son and Holy Spirit. The Father is unbegotten (akin to the Mind in Augustine's psychological analogy), the Son is the generated self-image of the Father (i.e. the knowledge with which He knows Himself) and the Holy Spirit is the bond of love spirated from the two (the love with which God loves Himself).

So, we say that He is one in essence but three in "hypostases" (subsistent relations), otherwise translated into English somewhat inarticulately as "persons".

Good explanation

But i like to use the word one substance or one being insted of one essence because more people understand the trinity doctrine better with the word one being\substance

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Well according to most christians in the world God is only one Being shared by three persons.

Tritheism, the belief that God is three beings\gods is a heresy according to most christians in the world.

Both catholics, ortodox, and many protestants agree about that

Creator, human, and spirit are not each other by definition. "They" are one because of their relationship.

Jesus is not the god/creator as in he created the heavens and earth. He is god because Through Jesus creation was made. Through-shows the relationship the creator has with Christ. If they were each other, they'd be no prepositions.

Understanding the Trinity: How Can God Be Three Persons in One? | Cru

If the bible spoke of Jesus as God there'd be no "father, son, " and" holy spirit." They'd be referenced as one creator.

As for what christians say they vary in interpretation. All christians would most likely say if you want the answer it's in the bible.

But that's the bare bones of trinity. How christians wish to view it depends on what god tells them and their "relationship" with Christ.

 

[Starlight]

Creator, human, and spirit are not each other by definition. "They" are one because of their relationship.

Jesus is not the god/creator as in he created the heavens and earth. He is god because Through Jesus creation was made. Through-shows the relationship the creator has with Christ. If they were each other, they'd be no prepositions.

Understanding the Trinity: How Can God Be Three Persons in One? | Cru

If the bible spoke of Jesus as God there'd be no "father, son, " and" holy spirit." They'd be referenced as one creator.

As for what christians say they vary in interpretation. All christians would most likely say if you want the answer it's in the bible.

But that's the bare bones of trinity. How christians wish to view it depends on what god tells them and their "relationship" with Christ.

Tritheism is what you are describing.

According to the trinity doctrine essence has the same meaning as substance or being. In the trinity doctrine the three persons has one essence/substance/being.

Yes you are correct that the Father, Jesus, Holy spirit according to the trinity is three different persons who can communicate with each other and that they has a relationship with each other. But at the same time they has the same essence/substance/being.

So according to the trinity God is only one Being/Essence/Substance shared by three persons

 

[Vouthon]

Tritheism is what you are describing.

According to the trinity doctrine essence has the same meaning as substance or being. In the trinity doctrine the three persons has one essence/substance/being.

Precisely.

Trinitarianism is a variation of monotheism, not a polytheistic Tritheism.

It strictly posits one single divine being - and so the "personality" of God (as we would understand the term today, His Divine "consciousness") is actually of His single divine essence/being, and thus the exact same in each of the three "persons". The three "persons" are not three different personalities, but the exact same personality.

The word translated person in English technically and properly refers to a "subsisting relation", a relation which exists in the divine nature, whereby the one Divine Being relates to Himself. It does not - under any circumstances - mean three independent beings, centres of consciousness, personalities or entities united together, or anything remotely of that ilk. That would be polytheism. We're talking here purely about one Divine Mind.

That's what we're talking about when we speak of three divine Persons - not three separate "minds" but rather one Mind thrice over, relating to Itself in three distinct and eternal manners of subsistence of the one selfsame being to and in and with Himself (defined by their relations of origin with each other: the Ungenerated, the Generated and the Spiration from the two - which St. Augustine explained by analogy as: "the Mind, and the Knowledge wherewith the mind knows itself, and the Love wherewith it loves both itself and its own knowledge; and these three are one".)

The Trinity, in this way, presents itself as a revelation about the one God's own inner life, which no prior (or indeed subsequent) monotheistic conception had dared to envisage (hence, it's inherent inexplicability to conventional human understanding).

 

[Unveiled Artist]

So according to the trinity God is only one Being/Essence/Substance shared by three persons

Shared denotes more than one thing involved, so does relation-ship, and so does tri-nity.

Edit.
The essence of the shared nature or relationship is the spirit christians say it's love, grace, etc.

The only ones I know believe Jesus Is the creator (not sharing essence) are biblical literalist.

 

[Starlight]

Shared denotes more than one thing, so does relation-ship, and so does tri-nity.

The only ones I know believe Jesus Is the creator (not sharing essence) are biblical literalist.

Well then you know only people who believe in tritheism

According to the trinity doctrine:

Tri = three persons

Unity = one Being/Substance/Essence

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Well then you know only people who believe in tritheism

According to the trinity doctrine:

Tri = three persons

Unity = one Being/Substance/Essence

Are you reading my comments?

 

[Starlight]

Are you reading my comments?

Yes and what you describe is tritheism

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Yes and what you describe is tritheism

Please please please read my posts. I can wait.

Trinity joins three things into one unity.

A tri- unity. Three in one. So father/creator is the same as his oral laws....his oral laws incarnated to Jesus is the same as the creator. The message of love or holy spirit comes from the creator through Jesus is also god.

Unity, duality, Trinity, etc. The root word is unity.

Scripture: I "and" the father are one.

Trinity in scripture is a relationship that make three into a unity.

Shared denotes more than one thing involved, so does relation-ship, and so does tri-nity.

Edit.
The essence of the shared nature or relationship is the spirit christians say it's love, grace, etc.

Tri = three persons

Unity = one Being/Substance/Essence

-

Tri-is three persons
Unity-is making these three persons one
Hence the term tri-nity (and not unity and not duality etc).

The same or shared essense is also called a relationship. Christians have a relationship with father, son, "and" holy spirit with that share essense of love, grace, and faith.

I used divinity and you used essence but the point is the same.

Unless you are saying Jesus IS the creator, I'm not sure where you're disagreeing outside what christians say vs the bible and preference in word choice.

 

[Vouthon]

Unity-is making these three persons one
Hence the term tri-nity (and not unity and not duality etc).

The same or shared essense is also called a relationship. Christians have a relationship with father, son, "and" holy spirit with that share essense of love, grace, and faith.

With all due respect, what you describe fails to align with the definition of Trinitarianism, so far as I too can tell.

The Divine Persons are not, under this belief, "made" one (as if we are talking about the coming together of three originally separate beings), they already are the one, selfsame being in essence, from all eternity one.

You draw an analogy above with an individual Christian's "relationship" with God. That's not the same as the relations between the Divine Persons in Trinitarianism, because the individual Christian and God are (in our dualistic framework) separate beings / centres of consciousness, whereas the Persons of the Trinity are the exact same Being relating to Itself.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

With respect, what you describe fails to align with the definition of Trinitarianism.

The persons are not, under this belief, made one (as if one is bringing together three originally separate beings), they already are the one, selfsame being in essence, from all eternity one.

You draw an analogy above with an individual Christians "relationship" with God. That's not the same as the relations between the Divine Persons in Trinitarianism, because the individual Christian and God are (in our dualistic framework) separate beings / centres of consciousness, whereas the Persons of the Trinity are the exact same Being relating to Itself.

But isn't that playing semantics?

 

[Vouthon]

But isn't that playing semantics?

In Trinitarian theology, no - because if the wording is flawed or not properly articulated, then the implied meaning can change drastically, in a polytheistic fashion in one extreme (which is heretical to the staunch monotheism of Trinitarianism) and a modalism on the other (which gravitates towards a Jewish or Islamic unitarianism, that is heretical to Trinitarianism for denying the Trinity).

 

[Starlight]

Please please please read my posts. I can wait.

Tri = three persons

Unity = one Being/Substance/Essence

-

Tri-is three persons
Unity-is making these three persons one
Hence the term tri-nity (and not unity and not duality etc).

The same or shared essense is also called a relationship. Christians have a relationship with father, son, "and" holy spirit with that share essense of love, grace, and faith.

I used divinity and you used essence but the point is the same.

Unless you are saying Jesus IS the creator, I'm not sure where you're disagreeing outside what christians say vs the bible and preference in word choice.

According to most christians in the world and the trinity doctrine the Father, Jesus, Holy spirit is the one God who created the universe/universes, named Jahve.

So both the Father, Jesus, Holy spirit is the one God, named Jahve. Jahve is only one Being shared by three persons.

The three persons of God named Jahve is really three different persons who can communicate with each other and have a love relationship with each other but at the same time they have the same being.

So the Father is not Jesus or the Holy spirit but all the three persons share one Being/Substance/Essence

So God according to the trinity doctrine is only one Being shared by three persons. And this God is called Jahve.

What you describe is tritheism. Tritheism is the belief that three beings/gods/entities work and live in total unity. That the three beings/gods share a love relationship and because of that they are very close to each other, the love bring them togheter. They live in total unity.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

With all due respect, what you describe fails to align with the definition of Trinitarianism, so far as I too can tell.

The Divine Persons are not, under this belief, "made" one (as if we are talking about the coming together of three originally separate beings), they already are the one, selfsame being in essence, from all eternity one.

You draw an analogy above with an individual Christian's "relationship" with God. That's not the same as the relations between the Divine Persons in Trinitarianism, because the individual Christian and God are (in our dualistic framework) separate beings / centres of consciousness, whereas the Persons of the Trinity are the exact same Being relating to Itself.

That would make jesus the creator?

 

[Vouthon]

That would make jesus the creator?

For Trinitarians like myself, yes.