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Featured catholics, orthodox, and protestants: can you explain the trinity?

Discussion in 'General Religious Debates' started by Meandflower, Jul 23, 2021.

  1. Meandflower

    Meandflower Well-Known Member

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    Catholics, ortodox, protestants can you explain the trinity in this tread? Explain the trinity in the way you understand it :blush:
     
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  2. Muffled

    Muffled Jesus in me

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    I believe it is God.
     
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  3. ChristineM

    ChristineM "Be strong" I whispered to my coffee.
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    From my long gone days as CofE (protestant) i remember the father, the son and the holy ghost as the trinity. Or as us youngsters said it, big daddy, young JC and spooky
     
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  4. Muffled

    Muffled Jesus in me

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    I believe that only says what it is but does not explain it.
     
  5. ChristineM

    ChristineM "Be strong" I whispered to my coffee.
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    All three were god. Kind of confusing to a 11 year old but that's what we were told
     
  6. Meandflower

    Meandflower Well-Known Member

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    Yes i know Christians believe the trinity is God. But can you explain the trinity doctrine?
     
  7. Brickjectivity

    Brickjectivity Veteran Member
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    My opinion: First of all I base my opinion upon the protestant canon, not because I have to, but; because it is what I am familiar with. I am familiar with Genesis through Malachi and Matthew through Revelation.

    So why three words?

    Holy Spirit means "The separate breath." This alludes to being dead to the world and alive to God's new creation.

    Son alludes to our inheritance from our father in heaven. God is not male, and the church is not male. The point is that the church inherits from God. We are part of the Son or the Son dwells in us, or we are elevated from lower beings to heirs of God. This means also that we have to die to ourselves, die to this world and its ways. The transformation is destructive.

    Father alludes to the invisible, the intangible, the transcendent, omnipresent, timeless God.


    ****furthermore****
    Abraham bows to his guests. Why? I think he believes God is in them. I look at how scripture treats the people of God, as if God's wisdom (which is divine) is in them. I look at how Paul talks about bowing, too. There are many passages about things like this. John 1 says that the Logos is tabernacled in people. This affects how I understand the trinity.
    • [Gen 18:2 NIV] 2 Abraham looked up and saw three men standing nearby. When he saw them, he hurried from the entrance of his tent to meet them and bowed low to the ground.
    • [Deu 6:15 NIV] 15 for the LORD your God, who is among you, is a jealous God and his anger will burn against you, and he will destroy you from the face of the land.
    • [Jos 3:10 NIV] 10 This is how you will know that the living God is among you and that he will certainly drive out before you the Canaanites, Hittites, Hivites, Perizzites, Girga****es, Amorites and Jebusites.
    • [Deu 6:15 NIV] 15 for the LORD your God, who is among you, is a jealous God and his anger will burn against you, and he will destroy you from the face of the land.
    • [1Co 14:25 NIV] 25 as the secrets of their hearts are laid bare. So they will fall down and worship God, exclaiming, "God is really among you!"
    • [Jhn 1:14 NIV] 14 The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the one and only Son, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.

    God is understood to be transcendent of this physical world, not from it, not made through it or consisting of it.
     
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  8. Windwalker

    Windwalker Veteran Member
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    I view the Trinity doctrine as very much along the same lines of the Three-Body doctrine, or Trikaya, of Mahayana Buddhism. Trikaya | Buddhism

    Trikaya, (Sanskrit: “three bodies”), in Mahāyāna Buddhism, the concept of the three bodies, or modes of being, of the Buddha: the dharmakaya (body of essence), the unmanifested mode, and the supreme state of absolute knowledge; the sambhogakaya (body of enjoyment), the heavenly mode; and the nirmanakaya (body of transformation), the earthly mode, the Buddha as he appeared on earth or manifested himself in an earthly bodhisattva, an earthly king, a painting, or a natural object, such as a lotus.

    The concept of trikaya applies not only to the historical Buddha, Gautama, but to all other buddhas as well.
    Very much at issue for them when they proposed this doctrine, was a theological question of how the Buddha could be human and divine at the same time. It's the same issue in Christianity's view of Jesus of Nazareth, the man, was at the same time the Son of God, the very essence of God itself. In the Buddha this was his 'Buddha Nature'. Who is Jesus? Who was the Buddha?

    Answer, there are multiple modes of being. Jesus is fully human, and fully divine at the same time. As human, he is Jesus of Nazareth, a human like all of us. As Divine, his is the Christ, the Son of God, the Word, the Infinite One. That is Jesus' and Buddhas' "Buddha Nature". The Cosmic Divine Essence. This is known as the hypostatic union in Christian theology.

    So the Trinity then, in Christianity, becomes an extension of that
    Trikaya or Hypostatic Union theologies and addresses the other theological questions in light of this divine dual nature, who was the Cosmic Christ talking to then as other to himself. He speaks of the Father and to the Father, he speaks of the Spirit to come and in all, and so forth. And so the Trinity doctrine is to speak to that Divine relationship.

    How I see the Trinity would be like this. God the Father is the Unformed essence, the "Dharmakaya". That is the Source of all creation, the Divine Will, the Infinite and unknowable by the human mind.

    The Son, the Word, the Logos, is the manifestation of the Source, or the Father. What the Father wills, the Son manifests and brings into being. What existence is, is the Logos itself. The Logos is God Manifesting. When we see the heavens above or the earth beneath, it is through the Logos this all comes into being.

    The Spirit is that which is the Life that flows from the Source, through the Son, to all created wonder. It all is a living, vibrating, dynamic WHOLE, that Spirit binds together and animates though all. Spirit is the Energy of existence itself.

    And so theologically, one can take these metaphysical views, ways in which to mentally envision the Divine and related to it as a human, and read scripture through that framework of understanding. That sees a more intimate and dynamic relationship than just "God above", which traditional theism creates.

    The Trinity formulation is actually very panentheistic. God is transcendent, and fully immanent to and with creation. Traditional theism places God above or outside creation. The Trinity is a mystical perspective, and when pushed the the lense of traditional theism, comes out a bit malformed as "persons" in the sky.
     
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  9. Terrywoodenpic

    Terrywoodenpic Oldest Heretic

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    For the first 300 years the trinity was not a thing in Christianity.
    It was constructed to avoid polytheism.
     
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  10. Unveiled Artist

    Unveiled Artist Shrugs. I tried.

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    It just means relationship between three entities.

    The creator incarnated his law into flesh so believers can interact with the law without needing to be limited by it.

    The creator made his oral dictations flesh and since believers don't make difference between Word and God, they are one and the same.

    If you had children and you wrote a will for them. The person dictating the will after your passing is an medium and has no say of his own just what you're written to share to your kids.

    Since the person can't add words of his own, his words Are your words. They are one.
     
  11. Meandflower

    Meandflower Well-Known Member

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    I do not understand your explanation
     
    #11 Meandflower, Jul 23, 2021
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  12. Meandflower

    Meandflower Well-Known Member

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    This is not the trinity. What you desribed is a heresy called tritheism.

    The trinity doctrine is: three persons who share one Being. That God is only one divine Being. It is because of this Christianity is classified as monotheism

    Tritheism is the belief that the three persons is three different beings. Three different gods that work and live in unity
     
    #12 Meandflower, Jul 23, 2021
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  13. Meandflower

    Meandflower Well-Known Member

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    Very good explanation. I agree it is similar
     
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  14. Unveiled Artist

    Unveiled Artist Shrugs. I tried.

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    Trinity joins three things into one unity.

    A tri- unity. Three in one. So father/creator is the same as his oral laws....his oral laws incarnated to Jesus is the same as the creator. The message of love or holy spirit comes from the creator through Jesus is also god.

    It's like if you wanted to say I love you to your grandchild but you could only say it to your daughter. You pass away and anything your daughter says, you say. The GC can't tell the difference between you and the daughter because the daughter is the medium of your words of love.

    That unity between three people makes it one person and what defines that Trinity is love.

    Tritheism (which sounds like a new word) seems like it separates the three but unity by definition has no separates.

    If you're looking for a fundamentalist definition they have a more literal approach. They use Trinity to mean unity. That's not how I understood it in the church least not in mass and catechism.
     
  15. Brickjectivity

    Brickjectivity Veteran Member
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    ha ha ha
     
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  16. Unveiled Artist

    Unveiled Artist Shrugs. I tried.

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    Unity, duality, trinity, and so on. It speaks of the relationship between three things. The three things are one. It's just a label christians use to denote the divinity of god via creator, savior, and spirit
     
  17. Meandflower

    Meandflower Well-Known Member

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    From Wikipedia:

    Tritheism (from Greek τριθεΐα, "three divinity") is a nontrinitarian Christian heresy in which the unity of the Trinity and thus monotheism are denied. It represents more a "possible deviation" than any actual school of thought positing three separate deities. It was usually "little more than a hostile label"[3] applied to those who emphasized the individuality of each hypostasis or divine person—Father, Son and Holy Spirit—over the unity of the Trinity as a whole.[1] The accusation was especially popular between the 3rd and 7th centuries AD.[1]

    Source: Tritheism - Wikipedia

    So no, tritheism is NOT a new word. It is a old heresy according to christians
     
    #17 Meandflower, Jul 23, 2021
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  18. Unveiled Artist

    Unveiled Artist Shrugs. I tried.

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    Ok..but this doesn't invalidate the main point in my comment.

    Unless you're looking for a fundamentalist definition, it just means three come to one-tri -unity

    Unity, duality, Trinity, etc. The root word is unity.

    Scripture: I "and" the father are one.
     
  19. Meandflower

    Meandflower Well-Known Member

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    No what you desribe is tritheism. Tritheism is the belief that three different beings/gods work, live in total unity. So this is polytheism

    The trinity doctrine is that God is only one Being. And because of this God is only one. This is a kind of monotheism. It is the belief that God is only one being shared by three persons
     
  20. Unveiled Artist

    Unveiled Artist Shrugs. I tried.

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    Meandflower,the bible teaches that the the three entities of the trinity compose of creator, savior, and spirit. The crux of their relationship is divinity.

    I've only heard a handful of christians say Jesus is the creator. Most at least in the church do not teach that.

    Trinity in scripture is a relationship that make three into a unity.

    Are you asking for a nonbiblical definition?
     
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