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Caste System

Discussion in 'General Debates' started by The Hammer, Jun 23, 2022.

  1. The Hammer

    The Hammer Lord of Animals
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    What are your thoughts regarding an implemented caste system within a society? For instance, India has a loose caste system now:

    39720184_7.png

    Would you live in a caste system? Why or why not?
     
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  2. JustGeorge

    JustGeorge Unknown Member
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    I feel that I already live in a caste system. Its not like India's, but we're very caste aware in the US. It seems to be more based off of income or earning capacity rather than birth or occupation, though.
     
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  3. Heyo

    Heyo Veteran Member

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    The problem with caste and class systems is that you are born into them. Even in the US you are likely to die the same class as you were born into. Kids from poor families have to work harder than rich kids to reach the same goals.
     
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  4. Heyo

    Heyo Veteran Member

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    Interestingly, the IT industry has done much to open up the Indian caste system. As programmer is not a classical occupation, it has been open to people from all castes, even dalits.
     
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  5. JustGeorge

    JustGeorge Unknown Member
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    Its true. Rich kids often have their educations payed for, and have connections with other rich people, while poor kids often have to take out loans, are saddled in debt, and don't have the same connections that rich kids do.

    A friend of mind was given an opportunity to attend a class that extended over several weeks about how to get out of poverty. Much to her surprise, the class did not stress education to the degree she expected. Sure, get one, it stated, but ultimately it is about who you know, not what you know. People that have poor friends and family tend to stay poor. If you're hoping for wealth, you need to mingle with people with money, because the connections are where its at, according to this class.
     
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  6. MikeF

    MikeF Proponent of RAEism
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    Do those who live in a caste or class system have a choice? Does someone born in a racist society have a choice? It seems to me it is all out of the hands of the individual and dictated by the society they may find themselves in.
     
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  7. The Hammer

    The Hammer Lord of Animals
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    Maybe?

    There tends to be upward mobility as far as I've noticed.

    But just like someone born into poverty tends to stay there, unless without very hard work, the class system seems to denote the same.
     
  8. Orbit

    Orbit I'm a planet

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    Mobility in the US tends to occur at the edges of social class -- rags to riches stories are rare. I grew up very poor, but because of education am now middle class. That's typical--I didn't rise into the rich strata. I agree with JustGeorge about social networks and connections. It's definitely "who you know" to break into the upper class.
     
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  9. MikeF

    MikeF Proponent of RAEism
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    Upward mobility depends on the class/caste system and the rigidity to which it is maintained. This does not mean that societies do not change.

    How fluid would you consider the Indian caste system to have been prior to British rule?

    How fluid would you consider the South African apartheid system prior to the fall of that system?

    How fluid was the institution of slavery in the United States prior to the Civil War?

    How much choice was involved for those born into those systems?
     
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  10. The Hammer

    The Hammer Lord of Animals
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    Apples to oranges. Outside of the first analogy.

    It was mobile enough imo, both before and after British rule. It was as mobile as the society deemed necessary for the individual.
     
  11. Secret Chief

    Secret Chief Veteran Member

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    The UK has a caste system. What chance a working class person becoming prime minister? Slim to zero. But if your parents have £48,000 per year to spend on a child's yearly fees to go to Eton College you have just improved the odds - TWENTY prime ministers have attended Eton, including the current lying, racist, self-serving, philandering buffoon. But he was born into the right caste to become PM so none of that matters.
     
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  12. MikeF

    MikeF Proponent of RAEism
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    Apples to Apples, what about the class systems of pre-enlightenment Britain and the class system of Tsarist Russia? Could a serf in Russia become Noble if they worked hard enough?

    As to pre-British India, I cannot speak with any authority as to mobility, I would imagine, as in many systems throughout history, there could be some adjacent mobility, but even so, there would be some that could only be entered by birth and others at the bottom, that one would never escape from. This could be said of serfs in Russia. I would also argue that Japan's feudal caste system was also similar to India's.

    My main point is that mobility comes from dismantling the class system, not enforcing it. I just don't understand the premise of the OP suggesting that there was ever much choice. Who would choose to be an untouchable, for example, a caste found both in India and Japan in the past.
     
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  13. The Hammer

    The Hammer Lord of Animals
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    I never said their was "choice" outside of some form of mobility.

    What I stated in the OP is that it still seems to fit the way our society operates. Whether we want it or not their is still a "class system" in society. And I don't see that as a bad thing.
     
  14. The Hammer

    The Hammer Lord of Animals
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    Bingo
     
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  15. MikeF

    MikeF Proponent of RAEism
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    I guess I interpreted your question, "Would you live in a caste system?", as "Would you choose to live in a caste system?"

    Choosing to create a caste system would also be the same as choosing to live in a caste system, in my opinion.

    There certainly is incentive for those in the high end of wealth in a society to institute a caste system as a way of preserving wealth and privileged status for their descendants, barring entry to competition and dilution of the income/privilege gap.
     
  16. The Hammer

    The Hammer Lord of Animals
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    We never choose the society we live in, and yet we have a caste sytem in the US imo. As pointed out where, wealth is a level/caste creator.
     
    #16 The Hammer, Jun 23, 2022
    Last edited: Jun 23, 2022
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  17. Twilight Hue

    Twilight Hue Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.

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    It's a horrible premise.

    It give people the excuse to treat others badly since they feel it's a punishment from a past life.
     
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  18. The Hammer

    The Hammer Lord of Animals
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    But does it have to work like that? I mean there is some class infighting in India, but as it stands it's not very prevalent anymore, even if the classes are still socially maintained. It's about implementation imo.
     
  19. ChristineM

    ChristineM "Be strong" I whispered to my coffee.
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    I have as going to say precisely that including the philanering buffoon bit
     
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  20. Secret Chief

    Secret Chief Veteran Member

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    Depressing really that it's so obvious but so many working class seem not to care and continue to vote for a party that is hollowing out British society in pursuit of ever more obscene wealth. God I should work for Socialist Worker. :p
     
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