Can you give me an explaination? Something extraordinary happened....

[Ori]

Could post the picture please?

 

[Stormygale]

I have had experiences that baffled me, yes. I tried to talk about them on this forum. Some people were serious about it, and shared their unexplained occurences. But, the few who came on poking fun ruined the whole thing and people lost interest cause the thread lost its serious motivation. We need a thread made up about such things with rules and guidelines that state...
NO spam.
NO off-topic statements.
Serious posts only.
-
I might do that again...
In parts of the country, US, where I grew up at, this topic was big. It is the oldest settled part of the country, and common occurences are ever talked about. Upon moving to Texas, I have found that such things do not exist, outside of Pentecostal Churches, and old slave plantations.

 

[Neo-Logic]

You're a liar, you have no picture. Prove it. Post it! Post it! :bounce

Just trying to get you to post the dang picture because all this talk about a picture and there is no picture!!

A picture, afterall, speaks a thousand words.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Id like to see the picture.

 

[ubothsuk]

Why is it you are only asking for Christians or Atheists? Surely people have other religions have valid points, ideas or theories on this situation as well? Or are only Christians and Atheists of any importance?

No, they are not the only ones. But I do consider them the "extremes". I welcome any and all opinions. This was originally posted in the atheist forum, but I believe it was in the wrong thread or room. So when I wrote the first message, it was for a specific audience. However, your opinion would greatly be appreciated as well!

 

[ubothsuk]

You're a liar, you have no picture. Prove it. Post it! Post it! :bounce

Just trying to get you to post the dang picture because all this talk about a picture and there is no picture!!

A picture, afterall, speaks a thousand words.

You know, I can't blame you for your opinion. In fact, I would probably say the same thing. However, as I stated, I refuse to have it exploited. And as you know, it will surely a) be put on some silly "ghost" site. b) be vandalized via morphing, Adobe Photoshop "ized" c) be vandalized and then exploited by those who make it there business to promote their own twisted ideology. You must take my word for it. Again, I am not asking for "verification", I'll leave that to those who feel the need to prove that there is or there isn't a God, or afterlife etc. I am just a regular "joe" trying to get a handle on what happened. I know what it is and what it isn't. I am just trying to figure out the why and the how!



I know that I am not the only one who has come across something as vivid and unquestionable as this. Like I said earlier, its not an "orb", vortex, mist, shadow, etc. I know what I have. I could not imagine what it must be like to have "something" in your house, or this type of incident happen to you on a consistent basis. I feel very, ALONE in this matter. I am talking about it here because I don't have to go through humiliation, embarrassment, or feel like I have to "prove" something. I am just looking for an explanation. This looked like a place where people don't read books with pop-pictures in them! Thank goodness I have friends and family, and that this, so far, has been a one-time incident.



I don't mean to single out certain groups, but it is very, very hard to sit and listen or read the thoughts of those who claim to be "free-thinkers", and then refuse to talk about, consider, or explain these types of things, but have no problem basing the foundation of their "free-thinking" ideology on ridiculing, "picking" apart, disproving, whatever you wanna call it, some other religion. So, I figured if I could get an answer, or lack of, from what I considered the two "extremes" maybe I could find some direction.



You may be thinking I am just talking about atheists. Well, no. My own brother, who I have a great relationship with, who is a Christian, has seen the picture, was amazed, and knew what happened, shocked me. He told me a year later, that he did not "know" what it was, and did not want to talk about it. I was AMAZED, but not surprised. I asked him to look at it, and tell me what it was. He REFUSED to look at it and told me that he didn't know what it was and didn't want to know. How about tennis shoe?! What do you mean you don't know?!" He simply "shut down". My own theory? Well, although I love my brother, it is my opinion, and indeed something I have learned, that confirming or facing something as bazaar as this, especially in regards to atheists and christians, would make some, not all, but some of them realize that maybe things aren't as "tidy" as they would like to believe. Maybe they will have to make some life changes, admit to their friends and family that they were wrong on some level, admit to themselves that everything does not have a place, and maybe there isn't a place for everything. For the few that have seen this picture, it has changed their lives. One of my friends tried to commit suicide. He had kids, was unemployed and had given up. He went to church EVERY Sunday. Sorry people, but that didn't do squat for him. After his stomach was pumped, and he healed, I showed him the picture. I simply told him what happened, nothing else. I didn't have to say much. He sat shocked for a while, cried, and then a month later, got a great job even though he hadn't worked in more than 2 years, took care of his kids, and is doing great. Did some “divine” inspiration come over him? I don’t think so. I think he just got a dose of reality; don’t screw around with things you know NOTHING about. Don’t assume you know everything. He was arrogant, and selfish in his suicide act, and I think he realized that the world wasn’t what he thought it was. Some christians believe in the "holy ghost", angles, etc., but don't believe in ghosts, human or otherwise, while some atheists believe in science, which includes quantum physics and the mathematical theory/existence of other dimensions, but can't accept the idea that maybe our dimension is a one way door, while another is a two-way door, both with life forms of some "sort"



Sorry about the rant. Look, I will see about getting it analyzed but Kodak, Polaroid and a university or two. I would be willing to post the results that you can easily verify with a phone call, but I will not have this item exploited in any matter by posting it. I just want people to help me figure out the how and why. Not the "what". If it makes you think or rethink your position in life, well, maybe in some sort of way, you have “seen” it. Again, I am not a “Jesus” freak, hell, I’ve got more vices than Larry Flint!(for the humorless that’s a joke..sort of) I am not looking to get a “rise” out of people. And if anyone doesn't believe I am for real, well, I DON'T CARE! (I mean that in a nice way). I'm not here to debate over things neither of us can prove. I am 100% dead serious. I look forward to more replies from the wonderfully intelligent people who frequent this website. Thx

 

[robtex]

Look asking us for an opinion of a picture we have never seen and that you won't or can't post is pointless. If you really had an intellectually honest agenda you would show the photo to someone or if you lost the photo or whatever you would research digital photography to find various theories. Whatever was on that photo you seem to have already decided it was a finger so what is the point of all this firey language about a photo you can't or won't share?

 

[Mr Spinkles]

I agree with robtex. If you want an explanation, go to a professional photographer. Then you won't have to worry about your picture being exploited.

 

[ubothsuk]

Look asking us for an opinion of a picture we have never seen and that you won't or can't post is pointless. If you really had an intellectually honest agenda you would show the photo to someone or if you lost the photo or whatever you would research digital photography to find various theories. Whatever was on that photo you seem to have already decided it was a finger so what is the point of all this firey language about a photo you can't or won't share?

Thanks for the input. However, I don't "think" its a finger, it is a finger. I have shown it to many people close to me, so thats not the issue. By the way, showing it to you, as you are an atheist, wouldn't make a difference. No amount of evidence would change your opinion. Do you really think you would look at it and decide that its real, that you would change your mind and re-think you position as an atheist? I don't. I think you just want tailor your denial to it's specifics. Read the last paragraph of my last post. If it makes things easier, assume it is real. Please think about it, before you give the predictable response of "Its a moot point; I don't deal hypotheticals...." Again, I am looking for an explaination of how this etherial image manifested itself on my photo.

BTW scientists regularly talk about things in far off galaxies no humans have ever seen. And the evidence are all photos. Are their positions "pointless" too?

 

[ubothsuk]

I agree with robtex. If you want an explanation, go to a professional photographer. Then you won't have to worry about your picture being exploited.

Your answer tells you didn't carefully read my last post:

"I will see about getting it analyzed by Kodak, Polaroid and a university or two. I would be willing to post the results that you can easily verify with a phone call, but I will not have this item exploited in any matter by posting it. I just want people to help me figure out the how and why. Not the "what". If it makes you think or rethink your position in life, well, maybe in some sort of way, you have “seen” it. Again, I am not a “Jesus” freak, hell, I’ve got more vices than Larry Flint!(for the humorless that’s a joke..sort of) I am not looking to get a “rise” out of people. And if anyone doesn't believe I am for real, well, I DON'T CARE! (I mean that in a nice way). I'm not here to debate over things neither of us can prove. I am 100% dead serious. I look forward to more replies from the wonderfully intelligent people who frequent this website." Thx

 

[Pah]

Thanks for the input. However, I don't "think" its a finger, it is a finger. I have shown it to many people close to me, so thats not the issue. By the way, showing it to you, as you are an atheist, wouldn't make a difference. No amount of evidence would change your opinion. Do you really think you would look at it and decide that its real, that you would change your mind and re-think you position as an atheist? I don't. I think you just want tailor your denial to it's specifics. Read the last paragraph of my last post. If it makes things easier, assume it is real. Please think about it, before you give the predictable response of "Its a moot point; I don't deal hypotheticals...." Again, I am looking for an explaination of how this etherial image manifested itself on my photo.

BTW scientists regularly talk about things in far off galaxies no humans have ever seen. And the evidence are all photos. Are their positions "pointless" too?

You haven't produced any evidence that it is a real finger - You haven't even produced evidence that you took a picture. You supplied no facts of the time of day, the weather and consequent lighting or any other condition such as the presence of static electricity, moisture or any other environmental circumstance. You have given us a tall tale only.

When you get to that point of evidentuary material, then you may receive opinions that are just as valid as the conclusion you've made. Your idea that atheists are too close-minded to change an opinion is both arrogant and wrong. I believe that your "cover" that you would be called a charaltan is but a distraction from being a charaltan. This isn't a flame - it's a rant


Please supply an answer to this question. Since you seem to be going round and round with the same argument, would you mind if I closed this thread in the absence of anything new?

 

[michel]

Thanks for the input. However, I don't "think" its a finger, it is a finger. I have shown it to many people close to me, so thats not the issue. By the way, showing it to you, as you are an atheist, wouldn't make a difference. No amount of evidence would change your opinion. Do you really think you would look at it and decide that its real, that you would change your mind and re-think you position as an atheist? I don't. I think you just want tailor your denial to it's specifics. Read the last paragraph of my last post. If it makes things easier, assume it is real. Please think about it, before you give the predictable response of "Its a moot point; I don't deal hypotheticals...." Again, I am looking for an explaination of how this etherial image manifested itself on my photo.

BTW scientists regularly talk about things in far off galaxies no humans have ever seen. And the evidence are all photos. Are their positions "pointless" too?

I have been following this thread from a distance; not really wanting to become involved. As Robtex pointed out, how on Earth canyou ask us to pass judgement on something we have not seen? " assume it is real" - why should we?

If I told you I had a photo of a U.F.O, and I asked you to consider it genuine, a) would you do so? and b) -if I asked you where this U.F.O came from, surely you would want to see the photo, to make a comment.

Stop playing with people's minds.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

I agree with Pah. You havent explained enough of the picture, and surrondings, to get any real opinion. Maybe the finger is a finger print left from an oily or wet finger.
If the picture is exploited, no one here will be able to say "Oh that picture was taken by this guy that lives next door to me." The best anyone could say would be "Ubothsuck took that picture." And chances are, if the picture was photoshoped, you wouldn't even know about it.

 

[ubothsuk]

I agree with Pah. You havent explained enough of the picture, and surrondings, to get any real opinion. Maybe the finger is a finger print left from an oily or wet finger.
If the picture is exploited, no one here will be able to say "Oh that picture was taken by this guy that lives next door to me." The best anyone could say would be "Ubothsuck took that picture." And chances are, if the picture was photoshoped, you wouldn't even know about it.

Oily, wet finger on a digital image. Guess I didn't consider that. Thanks for the input.

 

[ubothsuk]

I have been following this thread from a distance; not really wanting to become involved. As Robtex pointed out, how on Earth canyou ask us to pass judgement on something we have not seen? " assume it is real" - why should we?

If I told you I had a photo of a U.F.O, and I asked you to consider it genuine, a) would you do so? and b) -if I asked you where this U.F.O came from, surely you would want to see the photo, to make a comment.

Stop playing with people's minds.

I guess I thought that human beings were evolved enough to use that funny new concept called imagination. I never asked anyone to "pass judgement". I guess many people (not you specifically) feel it is their position in life to "pass judgement" even when its not requested or warranted.
I don't know who you mean by "we". I am new here so if there are certain individuals that represent a vast number of posters, I will keep it in mind for future posts. Thank you. You opinion is highly valued.

 

[ubothsuk]

I agree with Pah. You havent explained enough of the picture, and surrondings, to get any real opinion. Maybe the finger is a finger print left from an oily or wet finger.
If the picture is exploited, no one here will be able to say "Oh that picture was taken by this guy that lives next door to me." The best anyone could say would be "Ubothsuck took that picture." And chances are, if the picture was photoshoped, you wouldn't even know about it.

Please try to read the whole thing this time, and let me know specifically what I've "left out":


Edited by pah
http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=16761 Repartition is boring. The link I just supplied is preferable

 

[Pah]

Please try to read the whole thing this time, and let me know specifically what I've "left out":

You have left out all of the environmental factors as I asked for.

 

[ubothsuk]

You know, I took 2 hours out of my day to write a seething rebuttal to those who refuse….no,….are incapable to letting go of what some might call their myopic views, and the inflexible dogma for just a few moments to truly read, stop, and think before responding to my posts. It is quite evident that this will not be done by such people. I am pleased however, that the majority of you did read and are truly trying to help a stranger understand what has happened. Having a degree in biology, I do appreciate their views, and I was privileged to have professors who valued the diversification of ideas enough to devote a number of classes to scientific philosophy; something many schools don’t have. I have been in pharmaceutical and medical sales for the past 15 years and have had the experience of interacting with some of the most intelligent people on the planet, both within the confines of my job as well as socially.

So, with that in mind, I took the rebuttal, and trashed it. Why? Because, as I have repeated over and over again, I don’t NEED your approval and blessing to valid what I have in my possession. What I and others close to me have so desperately tried to explain away. I NEVER once in this thread asked anyone to judge whether I was being honest or not. I will not be goaded into participating in the same circular arguments that will go on till the day that man no longer exists in this reality. I REFUSE in regards to this particular thread to submit to the gauntlet of temptation that some have thrown down simply to make them feel better so that things “fit” in place and they can sleep at night with the proverbial smirk of self righteous and victory on their psychological faces. There was a statement that truly shocked me. Someone stated that the thread should be closed simply because he or she was not satisfied with how it was going. Free-Thinkers huh? Open minded? Maybe its me, but that smacks of censorship. Something that every Atheist, Pagan, Buddhist, Agnostic, etc should be screaming about. Also, was I mistaken, or did one of the Christians actually ask me how they can pass judgment on something they have not seen???!!!!! I must apologize to the majority of those the Christian faith. I have to confess, I was expecting that statement from your camp. I am sorry. I am not against being challenged; I invite it. But if you are invited to a Poker game don’t come in and try to force everybody play Twister and then poke fun at them because they won’t submit!

I see myself in these individuals. You see, I am a very competitive person. In sales you have to be. My wife on the other hand is not. You know, what really burns me up about her? When we have a discussion or play a board game, she will not engage in even the most civilized trash talking/heated debate. The more she does not respond to my poking and prodding, the more I felt the need to engage and pick apart her position rather than to just play the game. Sound familiar? Some people find meaning and self-worth in turmoil; they need it, like a junkie, to address their insecurity even when it not the time nor place to do so. There are so many other threads here to participate in; that is what I love about this site. I would even invite people to take parts of this thread and start another one. I would be happy to participate. However, I refuse to invite those who disagree with me to leave. I refuse to cave in to the desires of those to view a picture that they have absolutely no interest in validating. I refuse to post this picture in order to provide them with the ammunition they so desperately seek in order to quell the insecurity of their own positions. I refuse to disrespect myself as I have stated this is a very, very emotional and intellectual issue for me and the people close to me who have seen it; and if you choose to be insensitive, that is your choice. For those who are capable of trying to help a regular guy faced with irregular circumstances that one day you may encounter, or have already encountered, please read my next post. If you or others cannot come up with specific questions or explainations, then eventually the thread will run its course all by its self. I feel this thread evolving into its next phase. Something I did not expect. For everyone else, please feel free to post whatever you want provided that it does not violate the rules of this site. Thanks to all, and I do mean all of you for participating.

 

[Pah]

ubothsuk,

I owe you and the memembership a public apoplogy for my remark about closing this thread. It was not meant as official policy but as a personal remark about your recalcitrance. If it was taken as a statement from RF management, I am indeed sorry.

Bob/Pah

 

[EnhancedSpirit]

In fact, there have been a number of such photos that have been taken over the years for which no clear explanations exist. Photos can often appear for which no evidence of fraud, trickery or mistakes can be discovered. The photos presented here all lay claim to being legitimate.

The photo shown here is the famous “Lord Combermere Photograph”, which was first published in 1895. It gained almost instant fame among psychic researchers and remains a mystery to this day.

The photo was actually taken of the splendid library of the house and the camera was placed with a long exposure of about one hour, details of which were carefully noted in her photographic diary.
Although no one was in the room at the time of the exposure, the developed plate showed the head, body and arms of an older man, seated in a high-backed chair to the left side of the room. The photo was shown to a relative of Lord Combermere and she announced that if did resemble the man. However, not everyone agreed about this. Regardless, the features of the man are hard to distinguish.

The strangest thing about the photo was that, at the time it was taken, Lord Combermere was attending a funeral at the local churchyard in Wrenbury, a few miles away. The funeral was his own! Lord Combermere had been killed a few days earlier in a road accident in London.
excerpt from: The World's Most Famous Spirit Photos