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Can someone explain the Trinity please...

JayJayDee

Avid JW Bible Student
2. When do women have to wear head coverings and what does this signify?
A head covering Paul said was a sign that a woman recognised her place in Jehovah's arrangement. Headship is an integral part of that arrangement.

“I want you to know that the head of every man is the Christ; in turn the head of a woman is the man; in turn the head of the Christ is God.” (1 Cor 11:3-7)

Women were not permitted to teach in the congregations in Bible times. They had their assigned place as "helper and complement" in spiritual matters in the congregation and at home and in worship, and if we keep to Jehovah's arrangement, we will enjoy peace and blessings.....which we do.

Headship is a loving arrangement, not a dictatorship. A man was to love his wife as Christ did the congregation. There is the role model.
 
A head covering Paul said was a sign that a woman recognised her place in Jehovah's arrangement. Headship is an integral part of that arrangement.

“I want you to know that the head of every man is the Christ; in turn the head of a woman is the man; in turn the head of the Christ is God.” (1 Cor 11:3-7)

Women were not permitted to teach in the congregations in Bible times. They had their assigned place as "helper and complement" in spiritual matters in the congregation and at home and in worship, and if we keep to Jehovah's arrangement, we will enjoy peace and blessings.....which we do.

Headship is a loving arrangement, not a dictatorship. A man was to love his wife as Christ did the congregation. There is the role model.

If I was studying in the living room and my wife and her study partner came into where we men were studying,they would have to put on the head cover.
 

JayJayDee

Avid JW Bible Student
According to the NWT, Jesus is the one who sent the angel to John in Revelation 1:1.

I agree this is what the verse says.

Do you really? Read it again.......

1 A revelation by Jesus Christ, which God gave him, to show his slaves the things that must shortly take place. And he sent his angel and presented it in signs through him to his slave John,"
(NWT)

Good grief! All we have to do is read the first verse without the blinkers. o_O

So whose revelation was it? What was the chain of command? Jehovah gave it to Jesus who gave it to an angel, who then presented it to John.

So where is this great error? :eek:
 

melk

christian open minded
A head covering Paul said was a sign that a woman recognised her place in Jehovah's arrangement. Headship is an integral part of that arrangement.

“I want you to know that the head of every man is the Christ; in turn the head of a woman is the man; in turn the head of the Christ is God.” (1 Cor 11:3-7)

Women were not permitted to teach in the congregations in Bible times. They had their assigned place as "helper and complement" in spiritual matters in the congregation and at home and in worship, and if we keep to Jehovah's arrangement, we will enjoy peace and blessings.....which we do.

Headship is a loving arrangement, not a dictatorship. A man was to love his wife as Christ did the congregation. There is the role model.

Good that in the "RF congregation" we can count with your contribution not just as a helper or a complement.:D
 

JayJayDee

Avid JW Bible Student
Good that in the "RF congregation" we can count with your contribution not just as a helper or a complement.:D

LOL....this is not my congregation. ;)

Psalm 68:11..."The Lord gives the command; The women who proclaim the good tidings are a great host" (NASB)

I am declaring the good news as part of a large army of women. :)
 

JayJayDee

Avid JW Bible Student
Who is sitting at the right hand of God as we speak? The Lord Jesus Christ, wasn’t it?

Sitting at God's right hand is no proof of a trinity. Who is sitting at the left? Mr nobody. :p

Psalm 110:1 should read like this, “The Lord (YHWH) says to my Lord (ADNY), Sit at my right hand, until I make your enemies your footstool.”

Let me ask you. Who is this Lord[ADNY] that is sitting at the right hand of the Lord[YHWH]?

An “a god”?

This is Jehovah speaking to his son who is waiting for what? He is waiting for his Father to make his enemies his footstool. If he is God why is is waiting for his Father to do this for him? Is he incapable as an equal part of the godhead to do this for himself? Please explain.

God would sit with “a god” right next to Him? Just think about that.

“You shall have no other gods before Me. –Ex 20:3”

Would a "mighty one" sit with another "mighty one" who is his son? Of course.

You demonstrate no understanding of the word "god" in the original languages. It doesn't mean what we assign to it in English. If satan can be a "god" and human judges can be called "gods" we have to twig to the fact that is doesn't mean "God" in every instance. As has been stated many times, "god" is simply a "mighty one". It is not an exclusive title for the Almighty.

In Greek there are no capitals, so "god" is "god" in all instances. Capitalising the word is left to the discretion of the translator, so of one has a trinitarian bias, one can imply something by a capital that is not there in the original language

Based on this premise, Ex 20:3, we can only conclude that the one sitting next God in Psalm 110:1 cannot be an “a god” or “other/different/heteros” god or gods.
Therefore, we can only conclude that the one sitting next to God in heaven, the Lord Jesus Christ, is God, the Son of God.

You will conclude what your trinitarian bias directs you to conclude.
There is one Almighty God and there are "mighty ones" who are called "gods" in Greek. In Isaiah 9:6 the "Prince of Peace" is called "Mighty God" but you will never find a scripture that calls Jesus "Almighty".

Since your are denying the Deity of the Lord Jesus Christ, as God, the Son of God, who is at the right hand of God in heaven –“But being full of the Holy Spirit, he gazed intently into heaven and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing at the right hand of God; -Acts 7:55”- then you are therefore denying His resurrection and ascension and that makes you an antichrist.

You really can't see it can you? :confused:

You roll that off like it was scriptural. You said "The Lord Jesus Christ, as God, the son of God" like you didn't just contradict yourself.

"The son of God" is not "God the Son"......can you find me one reference to Jesus as "God the Son"? Just one will do. And whilst you're at it.....can you find one single reference to "God the Holy Spirit"? :) Do you see the holy spirit mentioned as being at God's left hand in heaven?....is "he" ever said to be at God's left hand?

Was "he" too busy 'filling' Steven to appear at all? If the Holy Spirit is part of the omnipresent God.....How do you figure?

There is no denial of the resurrection. We teach it and appreciate all aspects of it. We just don't believe that Jesus is part of a triune godhead because Jesus never taught it. o_O
 
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Katzpur

Not your average Mormon
Sitting at God's right hand is no proof of a trinity. Who is sitting at the left? Mr nobody. :p
This raises another question... When Stephen saw "the Son of Man sitting on the right hand of God," what exactly did he see? Did he see one individual or two?
 

Kolibri

Well-Known Member
This raises another question... When Stephen saw "the Son of Man sitting on the right hand of God," what exactly did he see? Did he see one individual or two?

1) he saw 2 individuals
2) he saw God say: "Get off my hand" :eek:

"Look! I see the heavens opened up and the Son of man standing at God's right hand." - Acts 7:56:D

But that isn't the issue. @katiemygirl is not debating that they are 2 distinct individuals. She is debating that the Father and Jesus are both the one and only true "God." as if they somehow share the same title between the 2-3 of them. If all we were debating was a title that would should not be a big deal, but somehow it is more than that, and yet no more than that. The best way I know how to explain her God in my own words is 2 co-dependents that do not know where one ends and the other begins. I know that sounds sacrilegious. I am just dumbfounded how else to put this in human terms that is readily understandable.
 
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Unveiled Artist

Veteran Member
This has probably been said but have to ask. To Jehovah's Witnesses (and any other who wants to answer, of course)... wouldn't it be feasible to say God is the title of someone who is without sin, supreme, if you like, and authority? If so, wouldn't God the Father (Jehovah) and God the Son (Jesus) fit under those titles; thus, they both "being God."?

Since God is a title in many faiths and not a name, I'd assume in Christianity, given Jesus is sinless, He is a God too and He is not the Father, Jehovah.
 

Unification

Well-Known Member
Very telling that you did not address this one. Can you?

The kingdom of God is within. Kingdom not of this world. Spiritual kingdom. Higher consciousness. Seeing the light/truth revealed. Nothing earthly or wordly. Doing God's will. Always was. The same gospel was preached since the beginning of mankind. Love. Treating others with love. Visiting and comforting the fatherless/orphan... One without the knowledge of the Father, and the widow (one not spiritually joined the the Lord, not having the Lord as their husbandry.) Being not of this world. Your view of scripture and Jehovah is all earthly and of this world. You see literal marriage, all literal and earthly stuff, a physical conquering kingdom, not knowing the earth is your physical body of dust and the heavens are in your head, where you're on your throne and not Jehovah. The fatherless, the orphan, and the sinner are much much closer to God than anyone who thinks they are righteous in religion. The adulterer is one who listens to man and not God. The adulterer to you is a literal earthly affair. Kingdom isn't of this world, it's spiritual, and the sooner you trust in the Lord and learn to seek Him and not yourselves or any man... The sooner you will learn truth. For now, you see all earthly wisdom and not wisdom of God. HUGE difference. The spiritual man doesn't need a bible or anything to oppress other mankind with earthly wisdom, the law of the Lord is established inside their head and heart. Now, the bible is between man and God, mankind teaches mankind the same earthly junk, they think they do God's will by trying to convert them to their religion when they have no idea what they're doing. This is the will of mankind, the carnal mind. You teach earthly wisdom, I'll teach spiritual wisdom. The Spirit of God being brought as low as earthly literal interpretations and a history lesson... My goodness. The spiritual man is taught love, peace, and oneness among all mankind. A kingdom divided against itself cannot stand. . . The spiritual man is confirmed to a higher conscious of seeing and being taught what every human has in common, so there can be only one truth, taught by the Spirit. there is nothing wrong with the bible or scripture, it's beautiful for one who sees beyond the black ink and writing, but for the earthly and wordly human.... It's used carnally and used to oppress others, misconstrued to the extreme. You ask what is truth and one can believe whatever they want and claim it to be truth, but truth is what is seen and known, and what is love, and peaceable, and in unity with all of mankind. All of scripture refers to INSIDE of the human body, again... Something all of mankind has in common. Since the kingdom is spiritual and not of this world.... Why are you "watching" for a physical conquering kingdom of this world? The kingdom comes and is within a being, and then the Lord's will be done through that being. Until one removes themselves from their throne and defeats the conditioned mind, and is brought poor(humbled) in spirit and brought low.... One is in deception and could never see Godly wisdom and Godly will. Prevented from the truth. Only perceive things earthly and naturally and historically. The Lord is looking for prudent wives, the obeying body...... Not man having any jurisdiction of a woman, women wearing coverings.... If this is truly instilled in your heart that this is Gods will and law.... Something is severely wrong. Again, truth.... What's just and fair and of equality. What's not is earthly. The spiritual man sees that the Christ is in all humans' and what is done to any human, is done to God, albeit good or evil. The spiritual man has an alter built and being built within their body bearing good fruit, with the Lord's will being done within them. The spiritual man has already seen the kingdom come in his heart and mind and body, and would never teach others to look to man or themselves or for an external God when the only access to God is WITHIN and INSIDE of them. Keep the watchtower, you're in deceit waiting on an earthly, physical, literal conquering kingdom which my friend, IS NOT Jehovah's kingdom. The kingdom is within a human, where the Lord is reigning in one's life, conquering His enemies (sin) inside of the body, and washing and cleansing by the flood of His word (not the bible, rather.... His thoughts and spoken words of His will of truth, light, knowledge, wisdom, understanding, judgment, etc.) His kingdom brings rest and peace and bliss to a human within, and we comfort and teach truth to others in need, and guide others on how to seek this same God the proper way, and not man's wide way which is oppression and lies and control, and running to man to be taught. Better yet, the spiritual know that it's not ourselves doing this, it's the Lord working through us. Apart from the Lord, we know we can do no good. Our higher Christ conscious reveals our inner selves, and discerns everything with awareness no longer on the earthly, literal, and historical levels. His kingdom brings truth and life, and forsaking all for this love and peace, and experiencing and knowing the true one God.... And this is the kingdom and the gospel.
 
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Kolibri

Well-Known Member
This has probably been said but have to ask. To Jehovah's Witnesses (and any other who wants to answer, of course)... wouldn't it be feasible to say God is the title of someone who is without sin, supreme, if you like, and authority? If so, wouldn't God the Father (Jehovah) and God the Son (Jesus) fit under those titles; thus, they both "being God."?

Since God is a title in many faiths and not a name, I'd assume in Christianity, given Jesus is sinless, He is a God too and He is not the Father, Jehovah.

The issue isn't whether they both can be called gods legitimately. The original words translated God likely only mean "mighty one(s)" or "strong one(s)." And false gods were ones that had no power to prove their existence. But the teaching that "Jesus Is God" is deceptive. People who say Jesus is God are usually promoting that Jesus is the Almighty God, that no one has more power than he does. At most, all legitimately powerful ones are secondary in power to Jehovah, the Almighty. In comparison to Jehovah, there is no God - that is, no one as mighty or mightier than him, not then, not now, not ever.

It seems silly that those of us who are basically saying that Jesus and Jehovah are both "mighty" are debating whether or not they are both Almighty and somehow the "same" "mighty one".

We designate the Triune God to be a false god, because he does not exist and has no power to prove otherwise. However the individuals, Jehovah and Jesus, will prove their existence again in a undeniable way soon enough.

When Gog attacks God's people.
"And I will certainly magnify myself and sanctify myself and make myself known before the eyes of many nations; and they will have to know that I am Jehovah." - Ezekiel 38:23

At the same time as Jehovah's chosen king:
"Look![Jesus] is coming with the clouds, and every eye will see him, and those who pierced him; and all the tribes of the earth will beat themselves in grief because of him. Yes, Amen." - Revelation 1:7
 
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Unveiled Artist

Veteran Member
It seems silly that those of us who are basically saying that Jesus and Jehovah are both "mighty" are debating whether or not they are both Almighty and somehow the "same" "mighty one".
Oh, gosh, wow. When you put it like that.

I'd conclude from scripture that Jehovah is the Father and Jesus is the Son. They both share the same nature--sinless, authority--but they are not the same person. Id say that because Jesus always said He got His Words from His Father and not His Own. If He were His Father, He would not have said that because the words would be His own.

Okay. Thank you for answering that. I don't believe there'd be a resolution to this debate, though. JW in the lead ;)
 

Kolibri

Well-Known Member
The kingdom of God is within. Kingdom not of this world. Spiritual kingdom. Higher consciousness. Seeing the light/truth revealed. Nothing earthly or wordly. Doing God's will. Always was. The same gospel was preached since the beginning of mankind. Love. Treating others with love. Visiting and comforting the fatherless/orphan... One without the knowledge of the Father, and the widow (one not spiritually joined the the Lord, not having the Lord as their husbandry.) Being not of this world. Your view of scripture and Jehovah is all earthly and of this world. You see literal marriage, all literal and earthly stuff, a physical conquering kingdom, not knowing the earth is your physical body of dust and the heavens are in your head, where you're on your throne and not Jehovah. The fatherless, the orphan, and the sinner are much much closer to God than anyone who thinks they are righteous in religion. The adulterer is one who listens to man and not God. The adulterer to you is a literal earthly affair. Kingdom isn't of this world, it's spiritual, and the sooner you trust in the Lord and learn to seek Him and not yourselves or any man... The sooner you will learn truth. For now, you see all earthly wisdom and not wisdom of God. HUGE difference. The spiritual man doesn't need a bible or anything to oppress other mankind with earthly wisdom, the law of the Lord is established inside their head and heart. Now, the bible is between man and God, mankind teaches mankind the same earthly junk, they think they do God's will by trying to convert them to their religion when they have no idea what they're doing. This is the will of mankind, the carnal mind. You teach earthly wisdom, I'll teach spiritual wisdom. The Spirit of God being brought as low as earthly literal interpretations and a history lesson... My goodness. The spiritual man is taught love, peace, and oneness among all mankind. A kingdom divided against itself cannot stand. . . The spiritual man is confirmed to a higher conscious of seeing and being taught what every human has in common, so there can be only one truth, taught by the Spirit. there is nothing wrong with the bible or scripture, it's beautiful for one who sees beyond the black ink and writing, but for the earthly and wordly human.... It's used carnally and used to oppress others, misconstrued to the extreme. You ask what is truth and one can believe whatever they want and claim it to be truth, but truth is what is seen and known, and what is love, and peaceable, and in unity with all of mankind. All of scripture refers to INSIDE of the human body, again... Something all of mankind has in common. Since the kingdom is spiritual and not of this world.... Why are you "watching" for a physical conquering kingdom of this world? The kingdom comes and is within a being, and then the Lord's will be done through that being. Until one removes themselves from their throne and defeats the conditioned mind, and is brought poor(humbled) in spirit and brought low.... One is in deception and could never see Godly wisdom and Godly will. Prevented from the truth. Only perceive things earthly and naturally and historically. The Lord is looking for prudent wives, the obeying body...... Not man having any jurisdiction of a woman, women wearing coverings.... If this is truly instilled in your heart that this is Gods will and law.... Something is severely wrong. Again, truth.... What's just and fair and of equality. What's not is earthly. The spiritual man sees that the Christ is in all humans' and what is done to any human, is done to God, albeit good or evil. The spiritual man has an alter built and being built within their body bearing good fruit, with the Lord's will being done within them. The spiritual man has already seen the kingdom come in his heart and mind and body, and would never teach others to look to man or themselves or for an external God when the only access to God is WITHIN and INSIDE of them. Keep the watchtower, you're in deceit waiting on an earthly, physical, literal conquering kingdom which my friend, IS NOT Jehovah's kingdom. The kingdom is within a human, where the Lord is reigning in one's life, conquering His enemies (sin) inside of the body, and washing and cleansing by the flood of His word (not the bible, rather.... His thoughts and spoken words of His will of truth, light, knowledge, wisdom, understanding, judgment, etc.) His kingdom brings rest and peace and bliss to a human within, and we comfort and teach truth to others in need, and guide others on how to seek this same God the proper way, and not man's wide way which is oppression and lies and control, and running to man to be taught. Better yet, the spiritual know that it's not ourselves doing this, it's the Lord working through us. Apart from the Lord, we know we can do no good. Our higher Christ conscious reveals our inner selves, and discerns everything with awareness no longer on the earthly, literal, and historical levels. His kingdom brings truth and life, and forsaking all for this love and peace, and experiencing and knowing the true one God.... And this is the kingdom and the gospel.

The heart is more treacherous (or "deceitful.") than anything else and is desperate. (or possibly, "incurable.")
Who can know it?
I, Jehovah, am searching the heart,
Examining the innermost thoughts, (or "deepest emotions." Lit., "kidneys.")
To give to each one according to his ways,
According to the fruitage of his works.
- Jeremiah 17:9,10

I think this is a VERY good reason not to rely solely on what one feels is correct. We can deceive ourselves or be deceived by our own thoughts and emotions and higher frequency emotions without something to prove them against.


When you reference "the kingdom of God is within", you are likely referencing Jesus' words to the Pharisees who opposed him. (Luke 17:21) Jesus was not saying that the kingdom of God was in their hearts surely. But as the son of man prophesied to receive the kingship, Jesus himself, was definitely within their midst. We can know what the Kingdom is definitively by what it replaces. In Daniel 2 there is a dream image of a man made of different materials. God's Kingdom is showing to utterly destroy this image and replace it. What did this image represent? The account itself goes on to show that the Head of gold was the Babylon Empire, followed by other governments that would exercise some dominion over God's people. Since the Kingdom was replacing literal governments, God's Kingdom is then literally a government.

"In the days of those kings (that of the time of the feet - as JW's recognize, the Anglo-American World Power) the God of heaven will set up a kingdom that will never be destroyed. And this kingdom will not be passed on to any other people. It will crush and put an end to all these kingdoms, and it alone will stand forever." - Daniel 2:44
 
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JayJayDee

Avid JW Bible Student
It would be nice if you took a breath.....

Walls of text don't make anyone want to read. At least put space between your thoughts.

Let's see if I can break this up a bit.....

The kingdom of God is within.
That old chestnut? :rolleyes:

Who said those words and to whom did he say them? If the kingdom was not "within" those to whom he spoke, then that is not what he meant.

Another way to phrase what Jesus said was "the kingdom of God is in your midst". This is more in keeping with what he meant.
He was speaking to the Pharisees of whom he said, "You hypocrites, Isaiah aptly prophesied about you when he said: ‘This people honor me with their lips, but their hearts are far removed from me. It is in vain that they keep worshipping me, for they teach commands of men as doctrines.’” (Matt 15:7-9; Isa 29:13)

Kingdom not of this world. Spiritual kingdom.

Yes indeed, but this spiritual kingdom rules over mankind on a material earth, not spirit creatures in heaven. (Rev 21:1-5; 1Cor 6:2)

Higher consciousness. Seeing the light/truth revealed. Nothing earthly or wordly.

Nope.
Jesus said his kingdom was "not from this source"...he didn't say it wasn't anything to do with the earth....only "this world".
This "world" is the world of wicked humanity who are under influence from the devil. (1John 5:19) This is the world that would hate Christ's true disciples for doing what Christ did....being no part of the political set up at all and actually exposing it as belonging to the devil. (John 15:19, 20)
Like the days of Noah, Jesus said......people would not listen to the kingdom message. (Matt 24:36-39)

There are "new heavens" (ruling authority over us) and a "new earth" (new earthly society) which God has promised and in these "righteousness is to dwell" (2 Peter 3:10-13)

Doing God's will.

Nope.
That is what Christ's disciples do.

The same gospel was preached since the beginning of mankind. Love. Treating others with love. Visiting and comforting the fatherless/orphan... One without the knowledge of the Father, and the widow (one not spiritually joined the the Lord, not having the Lord as their husbandry.) Being not of this world.

Nope.
Again you are detailing what it means to be a Christian. You are not talking about the kingdom. The "gospel" is "good news" and the "good news" is connected to the kingdom, but you still haven't told me what it is and what it accomplishes. Here is a clue....Dan 2:44.

Your view of scripture and Jehovah is all earthly and of this world.
Actually Jehovah's first purpose was all earthly. Read the Genesis account and you will see that there was no mention of death or heaven and hell in any of it.

Only when Adam sinned was there a need for a redeemer, a sacrifice and a kingdom. Originally humans were ruled only by their Creator and the only way they could die was if they ate the forbidden fruit. There was no other cause of death. Humans were supposed to live on earth in the flesh forever in paradise conditions.
Read Gen 322-24 and tell me what you see.

You see literal marriage, all literal and earthly stuff, a physical conquering kingdom, not knowing the earth is your physical body of dust and the heavens are in your head, where you're on your throne and not Jehovah.
See now you're going off with the pixies. Where is this in scripture and what does it have to do with the kingdom?

The "marriage of the Lamb" (if that is what you are referring to) is the union of Christ and his bride, mentioned in Rev 21 as "new Jerusalem". This "city" is pictured as "a bride adorned for her husband", coming down out of heaven extending its rulership over the earth.
This "marriage" takes place in heaven when the full number of Christ's bride have been transformed so as to rule with him in heaven.

With the rulership of this kingdom, mankind will be brought back to God's original purpose.....having a sinless race of intelligent human creatures living in the paradise conditions he gave them in the beginning.

Jesus taught us to pray..."thy kingdom come, thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven".

How does the kingdom "come" and how is God's will done "on earth as it is in heaven"? It obviously hasn't happened yet.....


I am not even going to try and respond to the rest......
The fatherless, the orphan, and the sinner are much much closer to God than anyone who thinks they are righteous in religion. The adulterer is one who listens to man and not God. The adulterer to you is a literal earthly affair. Kingdom isn't of this world, it's spiritual, and the sooner you trust in the Lord and learn to seek Him and not yourselves or any man... The sooner you will learn truth. For now, you see all earthly wisdom and not wisdom of God. HUGE difference. The spiritual man doesn't need a bible or anything to oppress other mankind with earthly wisdom, the law of the Lord is established inside their head and heart. Now, the bible is between man and God, mankind teaches mankind the same earthly junk, they think they do God's will by trying to convert them to their religion when they have no idea what they're doing. This is the will of mankind, the carnal mind. You teach earthly wisdom, I'll teach spiritual wisdom. The Spirit of God being brought as low as earthly literal interpretations and a history lesson... My goodness. The spiritual man is taught love, peace, and oneness among all mankind. A kingdom divided against itself cannot stand. . . The spiritual man is confirmed to a higher conscious of seeing and being taught what every human has in common, so there can be only one truth, taught by the Spirit. there is nothing wrong with the bible or scripture, it's beautiful for one who sees beyond the black ink and writing, but for the earthly and wordly human.... It's used carnally and used to oppress others, misconstrued to the extreme. You ask what is truth and one can believe whatever they want and claim it to be truth, but truth is what is seen and known, and what is love, and peaceable, and in unity with all of mankind. All of scripture refers to INSIDE of the human body, again... Something all of mankind has in common. Since the kingdom is spiritual and not of this world.... Why are you "watching" for a physical conquering kingdom of this world? The kingdom comes and is within a being, and then the Lord's will be done through that being. Until one removes themselves from their throne and defeats the conditioned mind, and is brought poor(humbled) in spirit and brought low.... One is in deception and could never see Godly wisdom and Godly will. Prevented from the truth. Only perceive things earthly and naturally and historically. The Lord is looking for prudent wives, the obeying body...... Not man having any jurisdiction of a woman, women wearing coverings.... If this is truly instilled in your heart that this is Gods will and law.... Something is severely wrong. Again, truth.... What's just and fair and of equality. What's not is earthly. The spiritual man sees that the Christ is in all humans' and what is done to any human, is done to God, albeit good or evil. The spiritual man has an alter built and being built within their body bearing good fruit, with the Lord's will being done within them. The spiritual man has already seen the kingdom come in his heart and mind and body, and would never teach others to look to man or themselves or for an external God when the only access to God is WITHIN and INSIDE of them. Keep the watchtower, you're in deceit waiting on an earthly, physical, literal conquering kingdom which my friend, IS NOT Jehovah's kingdom. The kingdom is within a human, where the Lord is reigning in one's life, conquering His enemies (sin) inside of the body, and washing and cleansing by the flood of His word (not the bible, rather.... His thoughts and spoken words of His will of truth, light, knowledge, wisdom, understanding, judgment, etc.) His kingdom brings rest and peace and bliss to a human within, and we comfort and teach truth to others in need, and guide others on how to seek this same God the proper way, and not man's wide way which is oppression and lies and control, and running to man to be taught. Better yet, the spiritual know that it's not ourselves doing this, it's the Lord working through us. Apart from the Lord, we know we can do no good. Our higher Christ conscious reveals our inner selves, and discerns everything with awareness no longer on the earthly, literal, and historical levels. His kingdom brings truth and life, and forsaking all for this love and peace, and experiencing and knowing the true one God.... And this is the kingdom and the gospel.

Seriously, when you can give me a succinct definition of the kingdom and what it will accomplish without the waffle....let me know. ;)

If you went to someone at their door with that spiel as an explanation about God's kingdom, how far do you suppose you would get? :eek:
 

melk

christian open minded
The kingdom of God is within. Kingdom not of this world. Spiritual kingdom. Higher consciousness. Seeing the light/truth revealed. Nothing earthly or wordly. Doing God's will. Always was. The same gospel was preached since the beginning of mankind. Love. Treating others with love. Visiting and comforting the fatherless/orphan...

When you reference "the kingdom of God is within", you are likely referencing Jesus' words to the Pharisees who opposed him. (Luke 17:21) Jesus was not saying that the kingdom of God was in their hearts surely.
I think there's no contradiction between the two posts.
Yes, Jesus was talking to the pharisees who opposed him. Surely the pharisees didnt have the kingdon inside them. They didn't seem to feel God's love and mercy. They seemed attached to the values of this world. They couldn't get along with the ones who they considered their enemies, Jesus included. They couldn't love their neighbors as themselves. They coudn't get peace within themselves.
I believe that is what Jesus was trying to show them when He said that.
 

Unification

Well-Known Member
The heart is more treacherous (or "deceitful.") than anything else and is desperate. (or possibly, "incurable.")
Who can know it?
I, Jehovah, am searching the heart,
Examining the innermost thoughts, (or "deepest emotions." Lit., "kidneys.")
To give to each one according to his ways,
According to the fruitage of his works.
- Jeremiah 17:9,10

I think this is a VERY good reason not to rely solely on what one feels is correct. We can deceive ourselves or be deceived by our own thoughts and emotions and higher frequency emotions without something to prove them against.


When you reference "the kingdom of God is within", you are likely referencing Jesus' words to the Pharisees who opposed him. (Luke 17:21) Jesus was not saying that the kingdom of God was in their hearts surely. But as the son of man prophesied to receive the kingship, Jesus himself, was definitely within their midst. We can know what the Kingdom is definitively by what it replaces. In Daniel 2 there is a dream image of a man made of different materials. God's Kingdom is showing to utterly destroy this image and replace it. What did this image represent? The account itself goes on to show that the Head of gold was the Babylon Empire, followed by other governments that would exercise some dominion over God's people. Since the Kingdom was replacing literal governments, God's Kingdom is then literally a government.

"In the days of those kings (that of the time of the feet - as JW's recognize, the Anglo-American World Power) the God of heaven will set up a kingdom that will never be destroyed. And this kingdom will not be passed on to any other people. It will crush and put an end to all these kingdoms, and it alone will stand forever." - Daniel 2:44

You have said so, one should never rely on their own feelings, thoughts, ideas, beliefs. One should rely on the Lord's teaching which is in Spirit and truth. If one can't even rely upon themselves, why are they resolving to the teachings and reliance of other men? Cursed be the man who puts his trust in man. If one doesn't believe that a new, circumsised heart is created when the Lord is reigning in ones life, and that the Lord doesn't have the power to transform a man within, and his heart, there is no hope. The entire scriptures talk about the transformation of mankind within. The head of gold was the confused ego/reputation of oneself sitting upon their own throne. Yes, church buildings and mankind have dominion of over God's people. Those outward and vain kingdoms do replace the true kingdom, which is within. Mindkind's kingdoms are all created within themselves and need destroyed, brought low, humbled, brought to nothing, brought to desolation. God's empire is of spirit and truth and power to transform. While one can live their lives in vain in "hopes" for a kingdom after this life.... One should be finding the truth and life in this life, and know and experience this.
 
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Unification

Well-Known Member
It would be nice if you took a breath.....

Walls of text don't make anyone want to read. At least put space between your thoughts.

Let's see if I can break this up a bit.....


That old chestnut? :rolleyes:

Who said those words and to whom did he say them? If the kingdom was not "within" those to whom he spoke, then that is not what he meant.

Says, you.

Another way to phrase what Jesus said was "the kingdom of God is in your midst". This is more in keeping with what he meant.
He was speaking to the Pharisees of whom he said, "You hypocrites, Isaiah aptly prophesied about you when he said: ‘This people honor me with their lips, but their hearts are far removed from me. It is in vain that they keep worshipping me, for they teach commands of men as doctrines.’” (Matt 15:7-9; Isa 29:13)

Where is ones heart, within them or in their midst?
Which is more accurate, to meditate on the Lord within day in and day out as ones only teacher or rely upon mindkind's lies and teachings?

Yes indeed, but this spiritual kingdom rules over mankind on a material earth, not spirit creatures in heaven. (Rev 21:1-5; 1Cor 6:2)



Nope.
Jesus said his kingdom was "not from this source"...he didn't say it wasn't anything to do with the earth....only "this world".
This "world" is the world of wicked humanity who are under influence from the devil. (1John 5:19) This is the world that would hate Christ's true disciples for doing what Christ did....being no part of the political set up at all and actually exposing it as belonging to the devil. (John 15:19, 20)
Like the days of Noah, Jesus said......people would not listen to the kingdom message. (Matt 24:36-39)

There are "new heavens" (ruling authority over us) and a "new earth" (new earthly society) which God has promised and in these "righteousness is to dwell" (2 Peter 3:10-13)

Indeed, this world is under the influence of the devil (mindkind-mankind). you could find this source and the only truth "within" you. What political set up do you belong to? Why am I a hated disciple and not received, exposing man's empire and teaching one to seek the Lord as ones teacher?
You have said, a new heaven and earth is created inside of us, the old man gone, the new man arising. Indeed, wisdom dwells with the prudent, and our bodies are temple wherin the Spirit dwells.


Nope.
That is what Christ's disciples do.



Nope.
Again you are detailing what it means to be a Christian. You are not talking about the kingdom. The "gospel" is "good news" and the "good news" is connected to the kingdom, but you still haven't told me what it is and what it accomplishes. Here is a clue....Dan 2:44.


Actually Jehovah's first purpose was all earthly. Read the Genesis account and you will see that there was no mention of death or heaven and hell in any of it.

Only when Adam sinned was there a need for a redeemer, a sacrifice and a kingdom. Originally humans were ruled only by their Creator and the only way they could die was if they ate the forbidden fruit. There was no other cause of death. Humans were supposed to live on earth in the flesh forever in paradise conditions.
Read Gen 322-24 and tell me what you see.

How cliche and earthly, a human nonchalantly walked up to a tree and ate an apple, his wife being tricked by a magical talking snake. How kind of God placing a devil in paradise knowing mankind would fail. What was the devil doing in paradise?

See now you're going off with the pixies. Where is this in scripture and what does it have to do with the kingdom?

The "marriage of the Lamb" (if that is what you are referring to) is the union of Christ and his bride, mentioned in Rev 21 as "new Jerusalem". This "city" is pictured as "a bride adorned for her husband", coming down out of heaven extending its rulership over the earth.
This "marriage" takes place in heaven when the full number of Christ's bride have been transformed so as to rule with him in heaven.

Precisely, you have just said the spiritual Union of husband and wife in scripture. Not earthly union. The Lord reigns inside of me, and my new Jerusalem has already been created and being created.

With the rulership of this kingdom, mankind will be brought back to God's original purpose.....having a sinless race of intelligent human creatures living in the paradise conditions he gave them in the beginning.

Precisely, I died, my ego, my mind, my reputation, my old earthly and lustful and evil ways.... And brought back to the Lord's will and not my own.

Jesus taught us to pray..."thy kingdom come, thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven".


How does the kingdom "come" and how is God's will done "on earth as it is in heaven"? It obviously hasn't happened yet.....

Speak for yourself. Spiritual stuff is still folly to you.

I am not even going to try and respond to the rest......

Because you can't.

Seriously, when you can give me a succinct definition of the kingdom and what it will accomplish without the waffle....let me know. ;)

If you went to someone at their door with that spiel as an explanation about God's kingdom, how far do you suppose you would get? :eek:

I am nothing, I don't get anywhere. I plant seeds in one's mind, the Lord gives the growth. I'm not concerned with how far "I" will get. "I" don't matter. "I" have been brought low and humbled. What matter's is the Lord's will being done through me, the transformation of others life, helping the lost, and needy, to seek the Lord properly, and sowing things to the Spirit within me to reap after the hour my Lord takes my physical life. I know and trust in God.


Expand all, please.
 
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