Can every sin be forgiven?

[Scuba Pete]

To err is human: to forgive is not company policy.

I find it easy to forgive some things... those that happen to others.

I find it harder to forgive things that happen to me.

I find it intolerable if you even THINK about touching my kids.

But while I may "forgive" in both spirit and in truth, there may still be consequences to those actions.

Yesterday, I took the battery out of my wife's van. Being sick with a form of Lymes desease, I about fainted when I picked it up (the pain in my joints was unbearable). So I asked my son to put the battery in the back seat on the floor behind the front seat and that I would trot the battery in to Goodyear the very next day.

So this morning as I started out, I looked to see that the battery was where I asked it to be placed. It was not. I thought, silly bumpkin probably put it my Wife's van. So I stopped and took a look in the very back, just to be sure. Opppps... there was the battery, but it didn't look right.

So I opened the hatch (Isuzu Rodeo) and found that the battery was on it's side, on MY CLOTHES and on MY $2000+ dry suit! I was aghast! I was a hundred feet from the house and I broke in a dead run to get there and rinse off my dry suit. There are white spots all over. I swooned again, but am not sure if it was from the sickness or the loss this time.

My son and I had a bit of discussion, where he wanted to accept the blame, "even though" he thought it was truly my fault for asking for his help. Hmmmmnnnnnn. After we worked out just whose fault it was, he was indeed forgiven there was still a problem;

My drysuit is still ruined.

So even after sins are forgiven, we might still need to deal with the consequences of our acts. Or those close to us may have to deal with those consequences. No one said life would be fair!

 

[ibn_abbas]

The correct answer is from the Quran:

"Indeed Allah does not forgive that partners be ascribed to Him, but He forgives other than that to whomever He wills."

In other words, God's mercy is immense, He can forgive any sin. However, the only sin that leads to eternal hellfire is violating monotheism because that is a crime against God.

It can be violated by giving the qualities of God to His creation or vice versa. Or, it can be done by directing an act of worship to other than God. Examples of violating monotheism are: claiming divinity for Jesus, worshipping idols, praying to saints, etc.

We as humans owe our thanks and worship only to the Creator, not the creation.

The only way to have true monotheism is to become a Muslim. Everything else either merely claims monotheism, is outright polytheism, or is complete denial of the Creator.

 

[Malus 12:9]

He can forgive any sin. However, the only sin that leads to eternal hellfire...

Therefore God can not forgive every sin, for God wishes us to be "saved"
from this "eternal hellfire". No? Would He not forgive, if this sinner asks
for His forgiveness?

 

[Melody]

Yes, by God, but...well, let's just say I'm working on it

I find it impossible at the moment to forgive those who abuse and torture and rape...perhaps one day I'll be able to, but not right now. I'm not even sure I WANT to be able to.

Your last statement, "I'm not even sure I want to be able to" struck a real chord with me. I have been struggling with forgiving someone who, no matter how often I hold out the olive branch, slaps me down (figuratively) every single time. After the last time, I've been struggling with the forgiveness and it just occurred to me, after reading the above statement, that it's because I don't want to forgive her yet again because she's already had way too many opportunities and why should I continually have to forgive when she should be the one asking for forgiveness. I can think of only one reason I'd feel that way...pride (one of my *biggest* failings).

Oops....sure hope God doesn't tell me I've had way too many chances.

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

I think it is almost impossible for us to forgive everything, and not hold something back in the corner of our hearts, unfortunately we are not perfect.

Just as it is not our place to judge others, Judging and forgiving will be done by God.
Terry


__________________________________________________
Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for justice. The justice of God shall be theirs.

 

[Scuba Pete]

Renaldo...

That might be the Islamic God.

The Christian God has already had your sins paid for in full. You just simply have to accept that and love him.

 

[EnhancedSpirit]

I think it is almost impossible for us to forgive everything, and not hold something back in the corner of our hearts, unfortunately we are not perfect.

Just as it is not our place to judge others, Judging and forgiving will be done by God.
Terry
__________________________________________________
Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for justice. The justice of God shall be theirs.

With God, all things are possible. The problem is that we assume to forgive somebody means we condone an unwanted behavior, and this is just not true.

Forgiveness is accepting the fact that the past can not be changed. And Forgiveness is accepting the fact that despite what we feel, or know, the other person was only acting in a way they knew in pursuit their own happiness, and really had nothing to do with you.

You may have been a 'victim' of their actions, but if someone one else had been in your shoes, that person would have acted the same way.

Jesus taught that we should forgive, even if the other person does not ask for forgiveness, and even if they do not admit any wrong doing. Forgive and you shall be forgiven, judge and be judged.

 

[lilithu]

I think it is almost impossible for us to forgive everything, and not hold something back in the corner of our hearts, unfortunately we are not perfect.

Just as it is not our place to judge others, Judging and forgiving will be done by God.
Terry

Forgiving is done by humans too. It's not for us to leave it all to God, as if we bear no responsibility.

Jesus said, "Be perfect as your father in heaven is perfect." I don't think that means we're condemned if we fail at that, but we need to at least try.

 

[lilithu]

Renaldo...

That might be the Islamic God.

The Christian God has already had your sins paid for in full. You just simply have to accept that and love him.

Is there more than one God, Netdoc? Islam and Christianity both look to the god of Abraham as their god. You guys just look at him a little differently. But from the outsider's perspective, your beliefs are much more similar than they are different.

Besides, there's at least one passage in the Christian bible that also claims there is an unforgiveable sin - blaspheming against the Holy Spirit. What it means to blaspheme against the Holy Spirit is a matter of interpretation. Just as what it means to violate monotheism is a matter of interpretation. As IacobPersul pointed out in another thread, most people do not understand the Trinity and think that Christians worship three gods. Christians (and those who love them) know that Christians worship only one God. The holy spirit and the Christ are not separate from God.

 

[Scuba Pete]

I have no idea Lil... I am not Islamic. I have no idea how "their God" compares to the true God. Hence the use of the word "might" in my post.

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

Forgiving is done by humans too. It's not for us to leave it all to God, as if we bear no responsibility.

That is why I said almost imposable implying that we try but don't always succeed.

Terry

 

[lilithu]

I have no idea Lil... I am not Islamic. I have no idea how "their God" compares to the true God. Hence the use of the word "might" in my post.

You do have some idea, Netdoc. You know that God is Love, which I have seen you say many times. If God is Love, how can God be the God of Christians but not Muslims?

The God of Islam is the God of Abraham, the same God of Jews, Christians, and Muslims. Abraham fathered Isaac thru Sarah, and Isaac fathered the Jews. Abraham also fathered Ishmael thru Hagar, and Ishmael fathered the Arabs. When Sarah kicked Hagar and baby Ishmael out, Hagar thought that she and her son would die. It was God who came to her aid.

Muslims believe that Jesus was sent by God to reveal God's will. They believe in the virgin birth. They believe that in the history of humanity, only Adam and Jesus were formed directly by God (with all others formed from the natural process of procreation). They believe that on the Last Judgement, it is Jesus will come to judge. Mohammed is revered as the "seal of the prophets" - in other words, the last prophet and the best of the prophets. But Jesus is revered of a different nature altogether.

Where you guys disagree is on the death and ressurection. Christians believe that Jesus was crucified and ressurected. Muslims believe that God would never allow such an injustice to happen to Jesus. Hence, the crucifixion was a illusion. The Romans and the crowd may have thought that they saw Jesus crucified but he did not die. No death; no ressurection. Jesus ascended into heaven. And Muslims believe that it is a mistake to worship Jesus as God.

Now, I realize that the death, ressurection and divinity of Jesus is the crux of Christianity, and so this difference of opinion is no small matter. My point is to show how much you do share in common. And to say that when Muslims reject the death and ressurection, it is not out of disrespect for Jesus. Rather, they respect Jesus and God so much that they can't believe that God would allow Jesus to be crucified. And they respect God so much that they can't believe that God and human can be one and the same. The latter is a feeling shared by the Jews. Regardless, you all worship the same God.

 

[Scuba Pete]

Lil,

God is indeed Love.

I have no idea if the Islamic concept of God is such.

I have no idea if the Hindu concept of God is such.

I could go on like this for most all of the various religions. Just because I see God in one light, others see him in a completely different light. Deut and I have the same "God", but he views God's actions with anger and distrust, while I view them with love and complete trust. (I hope I am not putting words in Deut's mouth here... I don't think I am)

 

[Saw11_2000]

Can't forgive murderers.

Death penalty for them...

 

[Ori]

Can't forgive murderers.

Death penalty for them...

And if they were convicted when they were really innocent?

 

[Saw11_2000]

And if they were convicted when they were really innocent?

That absolutely sucks then. Unfortunately, I don't think the justice system should come to a grinding halt, although.

 

[Fluffy]

That absolutely sucks then. Unfortunately, I don't think the justice system should come to a grinding halt, although.

Its no longer a justice system if we start convicting and irrevesibly punishing the innocent. Technically it is no longer a justice system if we do any sort of punishing at all.

Are you sure you wouldn't change your mind if it was a person you cared about who was about to be executed even though they were innocent? Or yourself for that matter?

 

[Saw11_2000]

Its no longer a justice system if we start convicting and irrevesibly punishing the innocent. Technically it is no longer a justice system if we do any sort of punishing at all.

Are you sure you wouldn't change your mind if it was a person you cared about who was about to be executed even though they were innocent? Or yourself for that matter?

There's always a chance you will get the wrong person.

For any crime. You could be walking down the street and someone thinks you are a serial rapist. Child abuser/molester, does that mean we don't punish these people just because there's a chance they might be "innocent" I'm sure I would care if I was alleged with murder, and I sure as hell would get a lawyer to prove my innocence to the best of their ability. Even if someone is wrongly convicted of a lesser charge, like rape and spends a few years in prison, that's years off a person's life. The only way you can avoid this is to simply say "we're not going to punish anyone, free reign for all!". Even if I was wrongly convicted of rape and put in jail for a few years, I, and I'm sure everyone else would be pretty pissed...

 

[Fluffy]

For any crime. You could be walking down the street and someone thinks you are a serial rapist. Child abuser/molester, does that mean we don't punish these people just because there's a chance they might be "innocent" I'm sure I would care if I was alleged with murder, and I sure as hell would get a lawyer to prove my innocence to the best of their ability. Even if someone is wrongly convicted of a lesser charge, like rape and spends a few years in prison, that's years off a person's life. The only way you can avoid this is to simply say "we're not going to punish anyone, free reign for all!". Even if I was wrongly convicted of rape and put in jail for a few years, I, and I'm sure everyone else would be pretty pissed...

Agreed but the dealth penalty is more costly a mistake to make. Its a case of limiting the damage caused by such a risk. However, now we are getting into a discussion over the pros and cons of the death penalty which I'm sure you didn't mean to get into from your original post so I will agree to disagree .

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

And if they were convicted when they were really innocent?

I do not agree with the death penalty for anything.

The only blessing for the innocent is found in the Beatitudes
Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for Justice. The justice of God shall be theirs.

and of course they return to God rather sooner than they expected.But which dose little to console those left behind. Though also in the Beatitudes it says.
Blessed are those who morn. they shall be consoled.

Terry