Can anyone answer this?

[Brian2]

No, in most cases it refers to the person, not the body.

https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1200004192

(@Conscious thoughts , you might enjoy this link.)

Best wishes to y’all.

And the person is the body with the added spirit that gives it life. But as I have shown from the Bible, the spirit is more than just a force for life, even if it starts off that way. It has potential, just as the body does and grows along with the body.
I don't think the spirit part of man is immortal, but is certainly lives on after the death of the body (Matt 10:28)
Let's face it, God can remember our body also and remake it, but that does not mean that our body does not die.
We are made from dirt and we have a spirit that gives the dirt life and is the life we have. We have a spirit and when it leaves the body it is the living person and so is the soul. When it is in the body, the body and spirit combine to be the living person.
A human is not complete without a body however.

 

[HonestJoe]

No I can not explain it in a none religious way, not in a good way anyway.
I believe each soul or spirit has been created out of God ( highest form of consciousness) but I can not explain how it is done because simple do not know, I only believe.

Then isn't a little hypocritical for you to present an entirely religious based belief but then expect people to counter it without any reference to the religious context? You seem to want us to start from an unjustified assumption that your beliefs are true and then explain why they're not. That isn't how this works.

You can ask an open question of how life, consciousness or human thought works (which is how some people tried to answer your question anyway) but you can't introduce other concepts in the same discussion without having any rational basis behind them. If you want a religious discussion, start a religious discussion. If you want a temporal discussion, don't bring your religious beliefs in to it.

 

[Spirit of Light]

I do not see the body as self, and I so not see the physical life as the real life, all of that comes when the body is no longer needed.

 

[Spirit of Light]

Then isn't a little hypocritical for you to present an entirely religious based belief but then expect people to counter it without any reference to the religious context? You seem to want us to start from an unjustified assumption that your beliefs are true and then explain why they're not. That isn't how this works.

You can ask an open question of how life, consciousness or human thought works (which is how some people tried to answer your question anyway) but you can't introduce other concepts in the same discussion without having any rational basis behind them. If you want a religious discussion, start a religious discussion. If you want a temporal discussion, don't bring your religious beliefs in to it.

I don't care if people think my belief is true/truth or not. All people have their versions of their personal belief.

I asked to have a discussion on how life can exist if there is no soul/spirit that manage it.

You are free to have any understanding of how it works, all I asked was if someone could explain their understanding.

I already know my own belief so I dont need to answer my own question on it.

 

[Aupmanyav]

But as I have shown from the Bible, the spirit is more than just a force for life, even if it starts off that way.

All you lack is a proof outside of Bible.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

I am not sure i it in correct par of the forum.

Last night I had a dream about.

"If there is no God, no soul/spirit or anything outside our body." What is it that make us alive?
If we do only exist because of electric impulin the brain. What made us feel example emotion, anger, happiness, or how can life exist without any form of spirit?

I know this is a difficult question,
And in this OP I will try to not see it from a religious p.o.w, so in your answer do not think of OP starters background in sufism, just explain outside of any religious belief if you can.

Maybe step back and reconsider the assumption underlying your question by asking yourself another question:

If we did have a soul/spirit in our body that makes us alive, how would it do that and how would we know?

 

[Spirit of Light]

Maybe step back and reconsider the assumption underlying your question by asking yourself another question:

If we did have a soul/spirit in our body that makes us alive, how would it do that and how would we know?

Personally to me that was Gods creation, to me that is not difficult to believe

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Personally to me that was Gods creation, to me that is not difficult to believe

And you don't go deeper than that?

Your position isn't anything more than just (if you'll forgive some inference on my part) something like: "God keeps people alive with his magic. The exact mechanism is unknown, but I know a soul is involved"?

 

[Azrael Antilla]

There is no way around creation, God said He did that and God said He gave life.
The line in the sand is with the creation and science can't come up with testable hypotheses, it's all speculation and will continue to be.
The other stuff in the past has been ignorance of science but the reality is that knowing the scientific mechanism of how something happens does not eliminate God anyway unless you first believe the God of the gaps idea, which probably not even theist do.

There is absolutely no evidence of a creator. Why would I care what your holy book says your God says? Meaningless..to a non believer in article of faith.
I am not a Christian. Have never attended a church service. If I was to choose a human monotheism, it would be Islam, which makes more sense.

 

[Spirit of Light]

And you don't go deeper than that?

Your position isn't anything more than just (if you'll forgive some inference on my part) something like: "God keeps people alive with his magic. The exact mechanism is unknown, but I know a soul is involved"?

I go much deeper in my daily practice but I realize it has no use in discussion with non-believers and its personal

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

I go much deeper in my daily practice but I realize it has no use in discussion with non-believers and its personal

Your daily practice deals with the physiology of how our body's systems might require the presence of a soul in order to function?

 

[Azrael Antilla]

I don't care if people think my belief is true/truth or not. All people have their versions of their personal belief.

I asked to have a discussion on how life can exist if there is no soul/spirit that manage it.

You are free to have any understanding of how it works, all I asked was if someone could explain their understanding.

I already know my own belief so I dont need to answer my own question on it.

Do bacteria need spirits or souls to function? What about Sponges or Fungi?

 

[Aupmanyav]

"A 'reference man' (one who is 70 kilograms, 20–30 years old and 1.7 meters tall) contains on average about 30 trillion human cells and 39 trillion bacteria, say Ron Milo and Ron Sender at the Weizmann Institute of Science in Rehovot, Israel, and Shai Fuchs at the Hospital for Sick Children in Toronto, Canada." (Google Search)
So many souls, +1 in our body ! ?

 

[Azrael Antilla]

Search for a materialist cause continues. Searching for God is outside the area of science but should be in the area of human research anyway.

We've got better things to do than search for supernatural controlling entities. Other matters like fusion power generation, are taking priority. Things that will change the world forever.

 

[Azrael Antilla]

A 'reference man' (one who is 70 kilograms, 20–30 years old and 1.7 meters tall) contains on average about 30 trillion human cells and 39 trillion bacteria, say Ron Milo and Ron Sender at the Weizmann Institute of Science in Rehovot, Israel, and Shai Fuchs at the Hospital for Sick Children in Toronto, Canada. (Google Search)

Yes. Human (somatic) cells are outnumbered by the bacterial cells that inhabit human bodies.

 

[A Vestigial Mote]

Not to dispute your views, but if there is no need for us to be alive, isnt it strange that we sre here with no actual purpose?

Can you see a definitive need for there to be a purpose? As in, without a purpose, could you go on living and surviving? The easy answer to that is "yes" - yes you could very easily survive without a "purpose" (whatever this means - unless you redefine it to mean oxygen, food, water, warmth, etc.) I feel this puts "purpose" into the category of "do as you like." Because there is no "do as you need" when talking about a "purpose." With regard to the species as a whole and reproduction, then, I suppose, one could argue that reproduction constitutes a "need." But from an individual standpoint this is not a need in the same way as things like oxygen or water are.

I dont say the purpose is God, it could be that it isn't, but is there any proof that no purpose life is more correct that a spiritual reason?

I think the evidence points to my assessment - that "purposes" are just abstract, often grandiose ideas we humans dwell on because life can seem chaotic and unfortunate sometimes. I think it helps some people to think of things as though all the strife and pain ultimately has some greater meaning - because they'd like to think they went through it for something at least.

Unfortunately, I think anticipation of a "purpose" forthcoming in life is just another trick of the ego. Some people believe they are literally entitled to a purpose. Some people seem to think "Look at me, a human... so very, very special - there must have been a plan for me to have been so beautifully crafted!" - just another playing out of ego/hubris/conceit. Some people take a personal affront, and even appear to be insulted by life's twists and turns, ups and downs... as if the universe should somehow know to "take it easy" on them. That's basically "Do you know who I am?" (like some pompous celebrity might say) without saying exactly that.

 

[Azrael Antilla]

Can you see a definitive need for there to be a purpose? As in, without a purpose, could you go on living and surviving? The easy answer to that is "yes" - yes you could very easily survive without a "purpose" (whatever this means - unless you redefine it to mean oxygen, food, water, warmth, etc.) I feel this puts "purpose" into the category of "do as you like." Because there is no "do as you need" when talking about a "purpose." With regard to the species as a whole and reproduction, then, I suppose, one could argue that reproduction constitutes a "need." But from an individual standpoint this is not a need in the same way as things like oxygen or water.

I think the evidence points to my assessment - that "purposes" are just abstract, often grandiose ideas we humans dwell on because life can seem chaotic and unfortunate sometimes. I think it helps some people to think of things as though all the strife and pain ultimately has some greater meaning - because they'd like to think they went through it for something at least.

Unfortunately, I think anticipation of a "purpose" forthcoming in life is just another trick of the ego. Some people believe they are literally entitled to a purpose. Some people seem to think "Look at me, a human... so very, very special - there must have been a plan for me to have been so beautifully crafted!" - just another playing out of ego/hubris/conceit. Some people take a personal affront, and even appear to be insulted by life's twists and turns, ups and downs... as if the universe should somehow know to "take it easy" on them. That's basically "Do you know who I am?" (like some pompous celebrity might say) without saying exactly that.

Agreed.

The universe and all it contains is wholly indifferent to humanity and it's delusions of grandeur. Or would be if it had sentience and had noticed humanity existed.

 

[viole]

"If there is no God, no soul/spirit or anything outside our body." What is it that make us alive?

Do you think the e-coli bacterium is asking itself the same question?

Ciao

- viole

 

[HonestJoe]

I don't care if people think my belief is true/truth or not.

That isn't what I said. I pointed out that your question assumed that your belief is true. You presented the existence of a soul or spirit as the default answer and asked people to counter that.

I asked to have a discussion on how life can exist if there is no soul/spirit that manage it.

But you also asked for no religious context, which would make it impossible to challenge the soul/spirit aspect since you only have religious basis to include it in the first place.

Again, you can ask a temporal question about how life and consciousness works, but you can't add religious elements to that temporal question. If you want to ask a question with religious aspects, you can't expect those religious aspects to be excluded from the answers. It really boils down to trying to shift away from the implicit biases we're all subject to.

 

[wellwisher]

I am not sure i it in correct par of the forum.

Last night I had a dream about.

"If there is no God, no soul/spirit or anything outside our body." What is it that make us alive?
If we do only exist because of electric impulin the brain. What made us feel example emotion, anger, happiness, or how can life exist without any form of spirit?

I know this is a difficult question,
And in this OP I will try to not see it from a religious p.o.w, so in your answer do not think of OP starters background in sufism, just explain outside of any religious belief if you can.

The human brain has two centers of consciousness; the inner self and the ego. The inner self is much older and is connected to our DNA. The inner self is what natural animals have and it defines humans as a species; human nature. Animals have a single center of consciousness; inner self. Only humans have two centers.

The secondary center or ego is much newer, in terms of evolution, and only occurs within humans. It offers a secondary POV more based on learned cultural knowledge. The inner self is connected to innate knowledge and forward integrating of experience; instinctive. When the bible talks about Adam appearing from the dust of the earth, it talking about the ego center, which evolved about 6000 years ago with the rise of civilization. The earth symbolizes instinct and dust is all the connected memories. The ego is a satellite subroutine wired to the inner self's data base.

Having two centers allows for two POV's; natural and cultural. Like having two eyes this can create a stereo affect that allow one to see in 3-D. The team become more than the sum of its parts. It is this 3-D feeling that stimulates questions about there being secondary aspects like soul and spirit beyond the ego . The ego senses more that itself is creating these 3-D feelings and awareness. The inner self creates this type of awareness through its dynamics, mediated through genetic based firmware; archetypes of the collective unconscious.

As a simple home experiment to witness the inner self in action, have someone agree to scare you when you are off guard. What will happen is your inner self instincts will react before the ego engages. Sometimes being caught off guard and being scared can make you scream, which can be embarrassing for the ego. However, the ego does not have time to censor this impulsive reaction. Something else was in control which acts sooner.

This something else affect is controlled by the inner self, through a range of personality firmware common to humans.These firmware define us as a species; human nature common to all humans. The ego, is less uniform since it is based on cultural learning which is very diversified. Through cultural learning we will learn ways to express and explain these software; religion and mythology. These systems helped the ancients map out the inner psyche and allowed more access to the main frame parts of the brain, beyond the ego terminal.

For example, in system of mythology, one would pray to a specialty god or goddess, such as for love or strength and courage in war. If this was sincere, the inner self becomes animated, it will add a natural and instinctive boost to the ego from the mainframe parts of the brain; gods helping. The ego does not have the wiring to access these parts of the brain without the inner self; wall between the realms. It needs to use the command lines of prayers. The heroes of old were often inner selves and not egos. The inner self used the Pharaoh and gave him better data crunching ability and personality drive so he could build the pyramids. He would then be called a god, incarnate.