By the way -- if you claim to be a Christian...

[Kenny]

I'm going to have to go along with @Polymath257 on this. Psychology is the study of the mind, mental development and human behavior. It is not the study of the soul. Given what we have already discussed, there isn't anything a scientist could study in that area.

Brain function can be studied. It is already known that damage to certain areas of the brain will result in somewhat predictable, though not completely predictable outcomes. Severe or chronic sleep deprivation can practically alter a person's personality. But the existence, presence and actions of a soul are beyond any capacity to study and the existence of it and anything that might be associated with it are based on belief by faith alone.

I would hold onto my position:

psychology (n.)

1650s, "the study of the soul," from Modern Latin psychologia, probably coined mid-16c. in Germany by Melanchthon from Latinized form of Greek psykhē "breath, spirit, soul" (see psyche) + logia "study of" (see -logy). The meaning "science or study of the phenomena of the mind" is attested by 1748, in reference to Christian Wolff's "Psychologia empirica" (1732). The modern behavioral sciences sense is from the early 1890s.

Yes… it includes the mind, will and emotions.

yes, I agree with you that if the brain is damaged, it affects outcome. But let me say it this way...

If your nerves in your back to your legs are damaged and you can never walk again, does that mean the brain doesn’t exist because it affected the nerve? Or the brain still exists but the nerves in the back have been affected. Likewise, if the brain is affected, it doesn’t mean the soul doesn’t exists, it means the nerve (so to speak) has been affected but the soul is still present and the same.

 

[Polymath257]

Some on here need evidence on whether you have a Soul -Mind, Will and Emotion. What are we to make of this? Maybe we aren’t allowed to say in this forum but it is quite comical. Let’s start with 2+2 = 4, I made up my mind to read the Bible and obey that today.
”My soul keeps Your testimonies, And I love them exceedingly.“
‭‭Psalms‬ ‭119‬:‭167‬ ‭NKJV‬‬

Basic assumptions:
X+0=X
X+S(Y)=S(X+Y)

Definitions:
1=S(0)
2=S(1)
3=S(2)
4=S(3)

Then
2+2=2+S(1)S(2+1)=S(2+S(0))=
S(S(2+0))=S(S(2))=S(3)=4.

 

[Dan From Smithville]

Some on here need evidence on whether you have a Soul -Mind, Will and Emotion. What are we to make of this? Maybe we aren’t allowed to say in this forum but it is quite comical. Let’s start with 2+2 = 4, I made up my mind to read the Bible and obey that today.
”My soul keeps Your testimonies, And I love them exceedingly.“
‭‭Psalms‬ ‭119‬:‭167‬ ‭NKJV‬‬

Why is it comical? What evidence do you have that you can share and show others? None. You must find the honesty of others willing to admit that fact as comical then.

 

[Dan From Smithville]

I’m not sure I understand the question since the example of babies seems (at least to me) a very clear example.



Again, not sure after the example. A 6 month baby comes out with a predisposition, a personality, just as much as a 9 month baby. At one year, we already see the manifestations of that soul. Sometimes we see a prodigy playing piano at 4 years… learned? We would have to say “no”.


We take a DISC personality test (for the purposes of what we are talking about… a soul test). You have the personality of who you are and then you have the personality that you “mask” when you are with a group of people.

I would say that you are “minted” before birth (when exactly would be up for debate) but that you can “develop” what you present to people when you are in a group.



Then I think I haven’t grasped the point you are trying to make. My apologies.


I think we are back to “Two people looking at the same evidence and coming to two different conclusions”. I revert back to the definition of “psychology” - the study of the soul.

I suppose we could contend the point but perhaps the simplest answer would be the best answer? A braid is a brain is a brain in all babies. It would be hard to hold to the position that all brains produce a different personality when it is just a brain. A soul seem to be the simplest solution.



yes… not all scriptures are black and white as some can be viewed differently because of not enough information. But it was a pretty good take, wasn’t it?

I will have to look at this closer when I have more time, but it seems that you are calling the mind and personality the soul, but these are material manifestation, so according to definitions and views I have seen, that would not be the soul.

Babies being born with a variety of established behavioral traits is not something I'm arguing against.

I don't think it is a case of two people arguing the same evidence to different conclusions. You have claimed that the soul is immaterial, but are using the evidence of the material in an attempt to demonstrate it. What I'm asking is for the evidence that demonstrates it exclusive of the material.

 

[Dan From Smithville]

Some on here need evidence on whether you have a Soul -Mind, Will and Emotion. What are we to make of this? Maybe we aren’t allowed to say in this forum but it is quite comical. Let’s start with 2+2 = 4, I made up my mind to read the Bible and obey that today.
”My soul keeps Your testimonies, And I love them exceedingly.“
‭‭Psalms‬ ‭119‬:‭167‬ ‭NKJV‬‬

There is evidence of mind, will, and emotion. What there isn't evidence for is the soul as it is described. Some on here seem to believe they are all knowing, all seeing and omniscient without being able to effectively answer questions. I find that humorous.

Referencing a source that is claiming something without demonstrating it, is not evidence for what is claimed. Surely even you can understand that?

 

[Dan From Smithville]

I would hold onto my position:

psychology (n.)

1650s, "the study of the soul," from Modern Latin psychologia, probably coined mid-16c. in Germany by Melanchthon from Latinized form of Greek psykhē "breath, spirit, soul" (see psyche) + logia "study of" (see -logy). The meaning "science or study of the phenomena of the mind" is attested by 1748, in reference to Christian Wolff's "Psychologia empirica" (1732). The modern behavioral sciences sense is from the early 1890s.

Yes… it includes the mind, will and emotions.

yes, I agree with you that if the brain is damaged, it affects outcome. But let me say it this way...

If your nerves in your back to your legs are damaged and you can never walk again, does that mean the brain doesn’t exist because it affected the nerve? Or the brain still exists but the nerves in the back have been affected. Likewise, if the brain is affected, it doesn’t mean the soul doesn’t exists, it means the nerve (so to speak) has been affected but the soul is still present and the same.

Where did you get this definition? Modern psychology studies the mind and human behavior with a material basis. Scientists are not arguing that the undemonstrated exists and is doing something.

I'm not sure what you last statements express.

If the mind, emotions, thought and feelings are the soul, then there is no evidence that it is immaterial as the conceptual definitions that you have presented indicate. And the above definition actual indicates it has a physical basis only.

That is the problem here. The physical basis is established by the evidence, but no immaterial basis is known.

 

[Polymath257]

Some on here need evidence on whether you have a Soul -Mind, Will and Emotion. What are we to make of this? Maybe we aren’t allowed to say in this forum but it is quite comical. Let’s start with 2+2 = 4, I made up my mind to read the Bible and obey that today.
”My soul keeps Your testimonies, And I love them exceedingly.“
‭‭Psalms‬ ‭119‬:‭167‬ ‭NKJV‬‬

The question is not whether we have a mind, emotion, and will.

The question is whether those are ultimately physical or not. All evidence points to them being physically based.

 

[Polymath257]

I would hold onto my position:

psychology (n.)

1650s, "the study of the soul," from Modern Latin psychologia, probably coined mid-16c. in Germany by Melanchthon from Latinized form of Greek psykhē "breath, spirit, soul" (see psyche) + logia "study of" (see -logy). The meaning "science or study of the phenomena of the mind" is attested by 1748, in reference to Christian Wolff's "Psychologia empirica" (1732). The modern behavioral sciences sense is from the early 1890s.

Yes… it includes the mind, will and emotions.

yes, I agree with you that if the brain is damaged, it affects outcome. But let me say it this way...

If your nerves in your back to your legs are damaged and you can never walk again, does that mean the brain doesn’t exist because it affected the nerve? Or the brain still exists but the nerves in the back have been affected. Likewise, if the brain is affected, it doesn’t mean the soul doesn’t exists, it means the nerve (so to speak) has been affected but the soul is still present and the same.

Once again, give evidence that there is anything but the brain involved.

The question is whether there is anything non-physical going on. Up to this point, there is no such evidence.

 

[Polymath257]

Where did you get this definition? Modern psychology studies the mind and human behavior with a material basis.

I think the problem is that the definitions have shifted in the last 375 years. In 1650, most people assumed that there was a non-physical aspect to our thoughts, beliefs, emotions, and will.

That is no longer the case.

 

[McBell]

I think the problem is that the definitions have shifted in the last 375 years. In 1650, most people assumed that there was a non-physical aspect to our thoughts, beliefs, emotions, and will.

That is no longer the case.

The problem is the hiding behind semantics.

 

[Polymath257]

I completely agree with you! If we really think about it, mankind still knows only a pinhole to what is yet to be learned and discovered!

True. But we know enough to discard some views because they don’t agree with the evidence.

We don’t have to know everything in order to know something.

 

[ElishaElijah]

The question is not whether we have a mind, emotion, and will.

The question is whether those are ultimately physical or not. All evidence points to them being physically based.

If that is all it is is physical then everyone would be exactly the same and have the same reactions to life and work like an automobile or mechanical device, but we don’t.

 

[McBell]

If that is all it is is physical then everyone would be exactly the same and have the same reactions to life and work like an automobile or mechanical device, but we don’t.

Do you have anything other than your opinion to support this claim?

 

[ElishaElijah]

Why is it comical? What evidence do you have that you can share and show others? None. You must find the honesty of others willing to admit that fact as comical then.

Do you need a volt meter, a prod, it’s obvious to me as obvious as there is an engineer, architect, planning when I see an automobile, building, bridge. Or a computer, according to your thinking it doesn’t need software, just a hunk of metal, plug it in and it works. That’s why it’s comical that you can believe human beings are reduced to just physical impulses by chemical reactions and that’s it.

 

[wellwisher]

The revelation that God's divine spirit of love, forgiveness, kindness and generosity exists within us all, and the promise that if we will allow ourselves to embody that spirit within us, we will be healed and saved from ourselves. And we can help encourage others to do the same.

After Jesus left the earth, he left behind a comforter, the spirit of truth; Holy Spirit. This spirit was not a spirit of the past carved ni stone, but a living spirit of the present and the future. This is what I focus on, since a living spirit from the time of Jesus to the present should leave behind data, if it was true.

If you look at the history of Christianity, after Jesus left behind the Spirit, the Christians helped modernized the world. My view is less about opinion in terms of New Testament scripture, but the data connected to works of the spirit, that was given to the Christians; Holy Roman Empire and the conversion of Europe. The Age of Discovery, the Age of Reason, the world modernization due to third world Colonialism; England, France, Spain, Germany, all had huge world empires, etc. The founding of the USA and the Constitution, the Industrial revolution and even the breaking up the Colonial era Colonies, so their own people could administer the upgrades; China, India, and everywhere.

Even modern Atheism was a spawn of Christianity, which is why Christianity is their main target; the spirit of brothers. When Rome and Christianity merged in the 4th century, the secular and spiritual merged. Atheism today is helping to fine tune separate the spiritual from the secular; render onto God what is God's and render onto Caesar what is Caesar's; secular. Even in America, where God shined his grace on thee, Christians on both sides of the political isle, are part of the USA evolution which impacts the world stage. The Spirit is still in motion and is what gives America that unique creative flux of change.

The third Testament of Judea-Christianity; an unwritten third book of the Bible, has yet to be compiled. It will document the key movements of the Spirit of Truth, as Christianity evolves and changes along with the world they touch. The Catholic Church alone has 10,000 Saints. There are way more than that, connected to the peoples whom they served; Dr Martin Luther King. He had a dream.

 

[Polymath257]

If that is all it is is physical then everyone would be exactly the same and have the same reactions to life and work like an automobile or mechanical device, but we don’t.

Why would you think everyone would be the same?

Our genetics are all different. Our brains all develop in different ways because of slightly different genetics and environments. We are all *physically* different in the ways that directly impinge on personality, beliefs, thoughts, emotions, will, etc.

Our physical brains are all very different.

 

[Dan From Smithville]

Do you need a volt meter, a prod, it’s obvious to me as obvious as there is an engineer, architect, planning when I see an automobile, building, bridge. Or a computer, according to your thinking it doesn’t need software, just a hunk of metal, plug it in and it works. That’s why it’s comical that you can believe human beings are reduced to just physical impulses by chemical reactions and that’s it.

If it is so obvious to you, then you should be able to easily demonstrate it. Since you don't, my only conclusion is that you can't and are merely repeating things.

There is no theory that says what you describe. It is just more words to hide the fact that you can't demonstrate what you claim is easily seen. That I am willing to admit that fact is not a source of amusement. I find it telling that you have tried to make it seem so while doing nothing but repeating claims.

Don't tell me what I'm saying when you are wrong about that. I haven't said anything about humans being reduced to only the physical. I have stated the fact that no evidence is known or has been offered to support the existence of the soul. Turn your gaze inward if you seek comedy.

Perhaps I should be a little forgiving. Maybe this subject is beyond you.

 

[ElishaElijah]

If it is so obvious to you, then you should be able to easily demonstrate it. Since you don't, my only conclusion is that you can't and are merely repeating things.

This whole thread and life demonstrates this, repetition is obviously needed.

 

[McBell]

This whole thread and life demonstrates this, repetition is obviously needed.

Ah.
So you got nothing.
No surprise there.

 

[ElishaElijah]

Why would you think everyone would be the same?

I already said why