By the way -- if you claim to be a Christian...

[YoursTrue]

As it has already been mentioned by someone else, you asked a rude question, and you received a rude answer.


Please correct me if I'm mistaken, but based on your answer, I can only assume that your entire theology concerning hell hinges on a single verse, Matthew 10:28. Is this correct? If I may ask, what about the other scriptures cited in my previous post? Do you not believe them, or do you consider them in light of 2 Timothy 3:16–17? Finally, I'd like to offer a different interpretation of Matthew 10:28 for you to read, which is this commentary here. I hope you will take the time to read the article, and please understand that I don't expect you to change your mind about the verse after reading it. It's just food for thought.

I looked at the article. What is your point?

 

[YoursTrue]

@Sgt. Pepper
P.S. you did not offer your understanding of Matthew 10:28 but pointed to something else in a link, but that is ok. If you want to you can put it in your own words. If not, that's obviously your choice.

 

[YoursTrue]

As it has already been mentioned by someone else, you asked a rude question, and you received a rude answer.


Please correct me if I'm mistaken, but based on your answer, I can only assume that your entire theology concerning hell hinges on a single verse, Matthew 10:28. Is this correct? If I may ask, what about the other scriptures cited in my previous post? Do you not believe them, or do you consider them in light of 2 Timothy 3:16–17? Finally, I'd like to offer a different interpretation of Matthew 10:28 for you to read, which is this commentary here. I hope you will take the time to read the article, and please understand that I don't expect you to change your mind about the verse after reading it. It's just food for thought.

Actually it was an honest question, the man enjoyed frequenting bars because that was his reputation around town, and no I don't think it was a rude question and I know he was not kidding in return. He claimed to be "saved." We all have opinions.

 

[Polymath257]

So do you think someone who is thankful, grateful and generous will live a better, more satisfying life and will receive the same in return compared to someone who is ungrateful, thankless and miserly?

I think that is likely to be true for the majority of people, since, for example, a person who is grateful and generous is more likely to receive the benefit of the doubt by others. I suspect that in any reasonably complex society, that will lead to a more satisfying life. Generally those that are ungrateful, thankless, greedy, and bigoted have lives that are not very pleasant.This is why I live my life by in this way.

But I don't see how that has *anything* to do with anything 'spiritual'. It has to do with how human beings interact with other human beings and how expectations are often self-fulfilling.

 

[Polymath257]

And you believe Paul's letters were likely written by him because??

Mainly, I take the judgement of those scholars that have studied the issue. We know, for example, that a couple of the letters were NOT written by Paul.

The reason I ask is because everything believers say about the Bible is either challenged or put down by naysayers so I hope the same relates to all in fairness. So again, why do you say that the letters attributed to Paul were likely written by him? Thanks.

1. They generally show a very early stage of the spread of Christianity.
2. They generally show a similar writing style (except for those that are unlikely to be from Paul), so were likely from the same person.
3. The earliest texts were first century.

 

[Polymath257]

That is your belief and I'm sure the belief of many others. But it is not my belief and others. Now since the Bible involves prophecy and explanation, I look forward to the future as outlined by the Bible.

I would suggest trying to read the Bible with a skeptical mind. Say, the same way you would read the Quran or the Upanishads. Then say what you think.

 

[YoursTrue]

Sometimes clarification of fruit needs to be made so we know what we are talking about in that regard. Didn’t see your comment needing a response on that. Also you were unclear who you are addressing.

That is correct.

 

[Polymath257]

The parables are stories or illustrations but they definitely relate to what they are emphasizing. I'm not asking you to believe that, I believe that. Your belief about it is that--your belief. And my belief is that. My belief.

And what are they emphasizing? Generally, an immanent apocalypse and how people will be judged during such.

 

[Polymath257]

Well, some may learn moral lessons in various ways. The Bible speaks of those who do not know the Bible but their consciences tell them certain things are...wrong. like stealing and adultery among other things. And then the Bible has many accounts of those under the law of Moses who did not obey or observe it.

Yes, and when I was young, I realized the similarity between the Biblical stories and Aesop's fables. I was astonished when I realized people thought the Biblical stories were actual history.

 

[YoursTrue]

Mainly, I take the judgement of those scholars that have studied the issue. We know, for example, that a couple of the letters were NOT written by Paul.

1. They generally show a very early stage of the spread of Christianity.
2. They generally show a similar writing style (except for those that are unlikely to be from Paul), so were likely from the same person.
3. The earliest texts were first century.

I do not necessarily analyze the Bible and look for flaws, but try to learn from it. I believe it is true and helpful for living a good life. Your definition of good life may be different from mine so it is not necessarily open to big discussion. I believe the history of the Jews as written in the Bible is absolutely correct. And that of Jesus as messiah and king is also correct.

 

[YoursTrue]

And what are they emphasizing? Generally, an immanent apocalypse and how people will be judged during such.

Not always. But yes I believe an apocalypse is coming and I might as well mention that a recent announcement was made that analysts of the world situation say mankind is closer than ever to annihilating life on earth. Called the Doomsday Clock. https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cn...ld/doomsday-clock-2024-climate-scn/index.html

 

[Sgt. Pepper]

I looked at the article. What is your point?

There is no point. I simply wanted to offer you an alternative interpretation. You said you looked at it, but I'm not sure you read it and considered it.

@Sgt. Pepper
P.S. you did not offer your understanding of Matthew 10:28 but pointed to something else in a link, but that is ok. If you want to you can put it in your own words. If not, that's obviously your choice.

My understanding of the verse relates to fearing God, which, according to the Bible, is the beginning of wisdom (Proverbs 9:10) and understanding that, from a biblical perspective, God has the ultimate power to destroy the soul. However, I don't believe this particular interpretation of God destroying the soul (total annihiliation) coincides with all the other scriptures I cited in my previous post describing hell as "a place of torment and fire," "a place where the fire is not quenched," "eternal fire," "unquenchable fire," "shame and everlasting contempt," "the smoke of torment rises forever and ever," and "the wicked are tormented day and night forever and ever." Of course, you are free to disagree with my opinion. I'm sure we will never see eye-to-eye on this.

Actually it was an honest question, the man enjoyed frequenting bars because that was his reputation around town, and no I don't think it was a rude question and I know he was not kidding in return. He claimed to be "saved." We all have opinions.

Yes, we all have opinions, and we will have to agree to disagree in this case.

 

[ElishaElijah]

I think that is likely to be true for the majority of people, since, for example, a person who is grateful and generous is more likely to receive the benefit of the doubt by others. I suspect that in any reasonably complex society, that will lead to a more satisfying life. Generally those that are ungrateful, thankless, greedy, and bigoted have lives that are not very pleasant.This is why I live my life by in this way.

But I don't see how that has *anything* to do with anything 'spiritual'. It has to do with how human beings interact with other human beings and how expectations are often self-fulfilling.

Well, those are not material consequences and blessings, but spiritual.
The same can be said for material sowing and reaping, you plant an apple seed and you will reap an apple tree not an orange tree.

 

[Kenny]

Please give any example of a 'spiritual truth'. I know of none.

love a necessary component for life?

And I found nothing out of the ordinary in his other statements. He was *mostly* focused on the apocalyptic message. Even the sermon on the mount was directed to how things would be distributed after the apocalypse.

OK… apparently you have given it deep thought already.

 

[Polymath257]

Well, those are not material consequences and blessings, but spiritual.

Absolutely, they are material. More appropriately, they are physical: they stem from the properties of physical human beings.

They are emotional and inspirational. But that does NOT imply a spiritual, which is a non-physical aspect of reality.

The same can be said for material sowing and reaping, you plant an apple seed and you will reap an apple tree not an orange tree.

Exactly: a purely physical effect. Not 'spirit' required.

 

[Polymath257]

love a necessary component for life?

Love is a human emotion. It is a part of a good life, yes. We can even point to centers in the brain that mediate the emotion.

What does that have to do with the notion of a spiritual?

OK… apparently you have given it deep thought already.

I never claim my thoughts are deep. I try to read for meaning.

I think part of the problem is whether to consider the Bible to be history (a factual description of what occurred) or as literature (motivational, inspirational, etc). As *history*, the Bible is questionable in many ways. As an inspirational tale, it clearly has meaning for many people, although I find it rather boring.

 

[F1fan]

So do you think someone who is thankful, grateful and generous will live a better, more satisfying life and will receive the same in return compared to someone who is ungrateful, thankless and miserly?

Studies reveal that people with positive attitudes tend to be more content and experience less stress and better overall health than those with negative attitudes. There’s nothing magical about this. The brain creates all sorts of physical changes that affect life.

 

[Polymath257]

I do not necessarily analyze the Bible and look for flaws, but try to learn from it. I believe it is true and helpful for living a good life. Your definition of good life may be different from mine so it is not necessarily open to big discussion. I believe the history of the Jews as written in the Bible is absolutely correct. And that of Jesus as messiah and king is also correct.

In fiction, I do not look for testing since I know it is *fiction*. For a text that claims to be non-fiction, I *do* look for tests and see where and when it may fail.

If you want a pretty *story*, many people enjoy the Bible *as literature*. that no more means it is *true* than enjoying the tales of Sherlock Holmes means you believe Sherlock Holmes was a real person.

As for the correctness of the history in the Bible, how much actual research have you done? Are you familiar with any modern scholar about the Bible? How about any modern scholar concerning Biblical archeology? The problem is that the actual facts on (or in) the ground do not support the Biblical narrative.

 

[ElishaElijah]

Absolutely, they are material. More appropriately, they are physical: they stem from the properties of physical human beings.

They are emotional and inspirational. But that does NOT imply a spiritual, which is a non-physical aspect of reality.

Exactly: a purely physical effect. Not 'spirit' required.

Ok so do you have soul? What would you say that consists of? Emotions are physical? When you say you aren’t spiritual and don’t believe there is a spiritual aspect to your life I do believe you

 

[F1fan]

Love is a human emotion. It is a part of a good life, yes. We can even point to centers in the brain that mediate the emotion.

What does that have to do with the notion of a spiritual?

To my mind being spiritual has to do with attaining emotional, physical, and intellectual balance. Those who see it as a head full of dogma tend to be the antithesis of spiritual. Such an irony.