I'm sorry. I didn't realize you were still going.
You didn't answer his questions. If that is what you call the last word, then it isn't what I know for that phrase.
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By the way -- if you claim to be a Christian...
- Thread starter YoursTrue
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You didn't answer his questions. If that is what you call the last word, then it isn't what I know for that phrase.
YoursTrue
Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
Thank you. As with many things, it depends on one's view of the matter. Some sum it up one way, while others sum it up differently. It's good to try to look at it carefully. Some things are clear to me and not necessarily agreed upon by everyone. (Obviously.) One of the scriptures I have in mind is the following, although to better understand it, one may want to go over various translations and importantly, the Hebrew and Greek contexts of the words.
Right now I'm giving these two translations. One says hell the other says Gehenna. But the outcome is the same. There is more, however, to the meanings and translations, however please look at what Jesus said at Matthew 10:28.
Berean Literal Bible
And you should not be afraid of those killing the body but not being able to kill the soul. Indeed rather you should fear the One being able to destroy both soul and body in Gehenna.
King James Bible
And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.
So according to this, what is destroyed?
Many Christians still seem to think that way and believe they have the right to judge the Christianity of others as well. It is not my favorite part of Christianity, but it is a factual state.
YoursTrue
Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
Well, I remember speaking to someone who claimed to be saved but he was a fornicator and I asked him if he thought he'd be doing that in heaven and he said yes. So I left the conversation anyway.
Subduction Zone
Veteran Member
Okay, but believing in God does not mean believing in the myths of Genesis. Most Christians do not believe those fables.
Subduction Zone
Veteran Member
It was a bit of a rude question so you got a rude answer.
The problem with taking the Bible too literally is that there are clearly some beliefs that are evil in it today. The reason is that situations change, so the laws of the Bible need to change too. Paul actually knew this when it came to some aspects of Christianity. He advocated for Christianity being more than a Jewish faith. So men did not have to chop the end of their penises off. People could eat pork. He did not see those laws as being forever.
As far as I know, you can believe in God and accept Christ as your Savior without ever having read the Bible. An illiterate person can be saved. All the people that became Christian prior to the Bibles concatenation and collation, and accepted Christ as their Savior and became Christian.
This demand that the entire Bible be read literally and viewed as if it were a history and science text isn't a requirement for Salvation. You can believe creation story or the flood of Noah are true events, but it doesn't make you a Super Christian or any more Christian than someone that views it allegorically.
Evangelical fundamentalists only make up about 24% of US Christians. By some peoples judgement, it would seem the other 76% aren't true Christians. It is fortunate for Christians that minority doesn't set the conditions for God.
ElishaElijah
Return
Well, we are to judge fruit, but these warnings should be heeded by people claiming to be believers:
”“Enter by the narrow gate; for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and there are many who go in by it. Because narrow is the gate and difficult is the way which leads to life, and there are few who find it. “Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravenous wolves. You will know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes from thornbushes or figs from thistles? Even so, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a bad tree bear good fruit. Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. Therefore by their fruits you will know them. “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’“
Matthew 7:13-23 NKJV
I see a lot of fruit that doesn't look as good as it thinks it does in my opinion. But I leave that judgement to God and consider only the claims, advice and declarations that they make.
What do you think about Christian nationalism? Seems sort of a trend these days. Good fruit or bad?
ElishaElijah
Return
I don’t have an opinion on it, not even sure I know the trend, I tend to stay away from trends and fads
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ElishaElijah
Return
Good fruit - fruit of the Spirit
Bad fruit - works of the flesh
”I say then: Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh. For the flesh lusts against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; and these are contrary to one another, so that you do not do the things that you wish. But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law. Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God. But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control. Against such there is no law. And those who are Christ’s have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires. If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit. Let us not become conceited, provoking one another, envying one another.“
Galatians 5:16-26 NKJV
ElishaElijah
Return
Jesus said these things and as a Christian I find these stories to be true and not myths:
”But He answered and said to them, “An evil and adulterous generation seeks after a sign, and no sign will be given to it except the sign of the prophet Jonah. For as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of the great fish, so will the Son of Man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth. The men of Nineveh will rise up in the judgment with this generation and condemn it, because they repented at the preaching of Jonah; and indeed a greater than Jonah is here. The queen of the South will rise up in the judgment with this generation and condemn it, for she came from the ends of the earth to hear the wisdom of Solomon; and indeed a greater than Solomon is here.“
Matthew 12:39-42 NKJV
”But as the days of Noah were, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be. For as in the days before the flood, they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark, and did not know until the flood came and took them all away, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be. Then two men will be in the field: one will be taken and the other left. Two women will be grinding at the mill: one will be taken and the other left. Watch therefore, for you do not know what hour your Lord is coming.“
Matthew 24:37-42 NKJV
”But He answered and said to them, “An evil and adulterous generation seeks after a sign, and no sign will be given to it except the sign of the prophet Jonah. For as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of the great fish, so will the Son of Man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth. The men of Nineveh will rise up in the judgment with this generation and condemn it, because they repented at the preaching of Jonah; and indeed a greater than Jonah is here. The queen of the South will rise up in the judgment with this generation and condemn it, for she came from the ends of the earth to hear the wisdom of Solomon; and indeed a greater than Solomon is here.“
Matthew 12:39-42 NKJV
”But as the days of Noah were, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be. For as in the days before the flood, they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark, and did not know until the flood came and took them all away, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be. Then two men will be in the field: one will be taken and the other left. Two women will be grinding at the mill: one will be taken and the other left. Watch therefore, for you do not know what hour your Lord is coming.“
Matthew 24:37-42 NKJV
Subduction Zone
Veteran Member
Why do you insist on claiming that Jesus was just a man? He would often use poetic licence when speaking to the disciples. That there never was a flood of Noah is obvious if one has studied any of the sciences.
You're starting to become very consistent in what can only be called nonresponses. In other words, you respond to questions with posts about something else. I'll have to remember that.
I didn't ask for your definition of good fruit and bad fruit. I'm pretty sure I know them and recognize them when I see them.
So you don't keep up with current events.
How about the prosperity doctrine? Are you familiar with that? That's been around for a while.
ElishaElijah
Return
Some current events I do some not so much.
Prosperity doctrine - if it’s the teaching that some use to fleece the flock and take advantage of people, no.
Psalm 1 and 15 are more in line with what I teach
and see in the Scriptures but there’s more than those.
”Blessed is the man Who walks not in the counsel of the ungodly, Nor stands in the path of sinners, Nor sits in the seat of the scornful; But his delight is in the law of the Lord, And in His law he meditates day and night. He shall be like a tree Planted by the rivers of water, That brings forth its fruit in its season, Whose leaf also shall not wither; And whatever he does shall prosper. The ungodly are not so, But are like the chaff which the wind drives away. Therefore the ungodly shall not stand in the judgment, Nor sinners in the congregation of the righteous. For the Lord knows the way of the righteous, But the way of the ungodly shall perish.“
Psalms 1:1-6 NKJV
”Lord, who may abide in Your tabernacle? Who may dwell in Your holy hill? He who walks uprightly, And works righteousness, And speaks the truth in his heart; He who does not backbite with his tongue, Nor does evil to his neighbor, Nor does he take up a reproach against his friend; In whose eyes a vile person is despised, But he honors those who fear the Lord; He who swears to his own hurt and does not change; He who does not put out his money at usury, Nor does he take a bribe against the innocent. He who does these things shall never be moved.“
Psalms 15:1-5 NKJV
I thought the question is how difficult it can be to determine the truth. You had claimed it to be easy and I was pointing out how it is often not.
Go back 2000 years. Most people didn't travel more than a few miles away from their birth place. News mostly moved by word of mouth. It would have been *trivial* for someone that *did* travel to make claims about events in another land with no fear of contradiction.
I look at the number of people who 'saw Elvis' after his death. If something similar happened to Jesus, it would have easily been the start of the legends we see at the beginning of Christianity. Claims that he stuck around for an extended period of time came later, as the legend grew. Again, in a society that got news largely by word of mouth, this would not have been difficult.