Born again christian

[JJ50]

Also @JJ50
I meant Good luck adopting not only the mindset that allows someone to accept claims without sufficient evidence, but then throw on top of that a mindset that views the least significant of that insufficient evidence as overwhelmingly important or profound. Religious thinking, and belief in things that can't be demonstrated and have no presence in reality, is nearly completely backward already - you just added a component of "upside-down" to your thinking as well. So good luck using your particular mind to weed out items you should have no confidence in from those that you should. It sounds like you are going to need it (luck I mean)... A LOT.

I do that about a lot of things not only religion. Cold callers either on the phone or coming to our door, give up their sales pitch very quickly!

 

[LightofTruth]

Just out of curiosity.
Where does people get being a born again christian from.
Seeing there is no where in the Bible about being a born again christian.

How and where do people get this from

The context of Jesus' discussion with Nicodemus refers to being born from above . Jesus says that a flesh and blood man must be born of the Spirit of God and therefore be a spirit himself in order to enter the kingdom of God. Because, as the Scripture says elsewhere, flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God.

Jesus is called "the firstborn from the dead". So being born from the dead, by coming out of the grave, is likened to being born from the womb. The faithful one who comes out from the grave has a new nature. A divine nature, as Peter calls it.

Being born of water refers to baptism as it is an ordinance of God for the remission of sins and being therefore in Christ and a child of God.

Being baptized into Christ is a type of new birth, but does not change the persons nature. it simply makes them a child of God who enters covenant for resurrection of the dead where the faithful believer will be born again (from above) by coming out of the grave with a new nature that can indeed enter the kingdom of God.

 

[A Vestigial Mote]

I take much of what is in the Bible, especially the less than credible passages, with a large container of salt.

Okay... okay... wait wait. I think I see what is going on here. This is totally my misinterpretation... on two accounts actually. And I need to apologize.

For one, I thought the phrase "to take with a grain of salt" was in reference to a single grain of salt not being worth much, but apparently it has its origins in salt making something easier to swallow... so adding salt to the mix (As you implied) would mean you hold even MORE skepticism, and therefore need MORE salt to get it all down. While I was thinking more salt was worth more, etc... just dumb on my part, honestly.

I see exactly what you meant now - and that your adding salt to the equation was not to say that you meant those items to be of greater value, but that their lack of credibility required more salt for the "swallowing."

Again... accept my apologies.

 

[Audie]

Rabbi Yose said: 'One who has become a proselyte is like a newly born child.' Talmud, Yevamot 48b

Uh, the q was long ago answered?

 

[LightofTruth]

'Born again' and 'new creation' are Jewish notions about converts to Judaism and are connected with the extra-biblical rituals in which a person who converted to Judaism had to be circumcised, then baptized in a mikvah (when he emerges he is reborn, the mikvah being equated with the womb; in this sense he was considered a new creation) then bringing a sacrifice to the Temple.

The Scripture says that the Pharisees refused to be baptized with john's baptism and thereby justified themselves rather then submitting to having their sins remitted. they thought themselves righteous in the eyes of God and therefore did not need their sins forgiven. However, the Scripture has concluded all under sin both Jew and Gentile alike.

 

[Wandering Monk]

The Scripture says that the Pharisees refused to be baptized with john's baptism and thereby justified themselves rather then submitting to having their sins remitted. they thought themselves righteous in the eyes of God and therefore did not need their sins forgiven. However, the Scripture has concluded all under sin both Jew and Gentile alike.

There was no baptism for the remission of sins in ancient Judaism. This was an innovation of John. No wonder the Pharisees were reluctant.

There was however a manuscript from the fist century called The Life of Adam and Eve. In the story, after they were cast out of Eden, they immersed themselves in the Jordan River as a sign of their penance (one version says it was the Tigris River.)

 

[LightofTruth]

There was no baptism for the remission of sins in ancient Judaism. This was an innovation of John. No wonder the Pharisees were reluctant.

There was however a manuscript from the fist century called The Life of Adam and Eve. In the story, after they were cast out of Eden, they immersed themselves in the Jordan River as a sign of their penance (one version says it was the Tigris River.)

The promise of inheritance comes by faith. Abraham, the father of the Jewish people, was imputed righteousness by his faith and not by keeping the law. If the inheritance (promise) be by the law then faith is made void.

 

[leov]

There's nothing there about a Christian being born again.

Christians do however like anything else take things out of it's context in the Bible.

Nicodemus knows all to well that Christ Jesus is not talking about baptism, but something much deeper than baptism.

This why Nicodemus said to Jesus, can a man enter the womb of his mother the second time.
So by this, it's obvious that Jesus is not talking about baptism, but something to do with the womb of a woman.

Nic. misunderstood Jesus, who speaks about being born from above.

 

[Wandering Monk]

The promise of inheritance comes by faith. Abraham, the father of the Jewish people, was imputed righteousness by his faith and not by keeping the law. If the inheritance (promise) be by the law then faith is made void.

I am not interested in your theology. I am just talking history.

 

[LightofTruth]

Nic. misunderstood Jesus, who speaks about being born from above.

The resurrection of the dead had been a mystery because no one had ever seen a man who had died and been raised from the dead immortal. The mystery was revealed in Christ. However, Moses did indeed teach the resurrection of the dead when he calls God the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.

 

[LightofTruth]

I am not interested in your theology. I am just talking history.

The Scripture contains the true history of the Jewish people.

 

[Faithofchristian]

Nic. misunderstood Jesus, who speaks about being born from above.

If Jesus is speaking about being born from above, then how does being born of the water fit into being born from above?

Note that Jesus did say in John 3:5
"Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God"
So how does water fit into being born from above?
So Jesus is not speaking about being born from above.
Otherwise have to figure out how water fits

 

[LightofTruth]

There was no baptism for the remission of sins in ancient Judaism. This was an innovation of John. No wonder the Pharisees were reluctant.

There was however a manuscript from the fist century called The Life of Adam and Eve. In the story, after they were cast out of Eden, they immersed themselves in the Jordan River as a sign of their penance (one version says it was the Tigris River.)

Circumcision was a token (sign) of the promises of God. Every male had to be circumcised. It signified the cutting off of the sins of the flesh.

 

[Wandering Monk]

The Scripture contains the true history of the Jewish people.

No, it doesn't.

 

[LightofTruth]

No, it doesn't.

Says you.

 

[Wandering Monk]

Says you.

Says you. It doesn't contain ANY Jewish history between the Testaments.

 

[Faithofchristian]

The resurrection of the dead had been a mystery because no one had ever seen a man who had died and been raised from the dead immortal. The mystery was revealed in Christ. However, Moses did indeed teach the resurrection of the dead when he calls God the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.

I have a question, can yo

The context of Jesus' discussion with Nicodemus refers to being born from above . Jesus says that a flesh and blood man must be born of the Spirit of God and therefore be a spirit himself in order to enter the kingdom of God. Because, as the Scripture says elsewhere, flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God.

Jesus is called "the firstborn from the dead". So being born from the dead, by coming out of the grave, is likened to being born from the womb. The faithful one who comes out from the grave has a new nature. A divine nature, as Peter calls it.

Being born of water refers to baptism as it is an ordinance of God for the remission of sins and being therefore in Christ and a child of God.

Being baptized into Christ is a type of new birth, but does not change the persons nature. it simply makes them a child of God who enters covenant for resurrection of the dead where the faithful believer will be born again (from above) by coming out of the grave with a new nature that can indeed enter the kingdom of God.

The water that Jesus is in reference to, is not water baptism.
Otherwise Nicodemus would haved known that, seeing Nicodemus was a master of knowing the scriptures.
Nicodemus knew what Jesus was in talking about, was much deeper than water baptism.
That's why Nicodemus ask Jesus, can a man enter the womb of his mother the second time
So it's much deeper than water baptism

 

[leov]

The resurrection of the dead had been a mystery because no one had ever seen a man who had died and been raised from the dead. The mystery was revealed in Christ. However, Moses did indeed teach the resurrection of the dead when he calls God the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.

Resurrection of the dead is when soul-man becomes spirit- man (1 Cor. 15).

If Jesus is speaking about being born from above, then how does being born of the water fit into being born from above?

Note that Jesus did say in John 3:5
"Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God"
So how does water fit into being born from above?
So Jesus is not speaking about being born from above.
Otherwise have to figure out how water fits

Look at 3:31 where the word translated correctly,
John 3:31 Lexicon: "He who comes from above is above all, he who is of the earth is from the earth and speaks of the earth. He who comes from heaven is above all.

 

[Wandering Monk]

I have a question, can yo


The water that Jesus is in reference to, is not water baptism.
Otherwise Nicodemus would haved known that, seeing Nicodemus was a master of knowing the scriptures.
Nicodemus knew what Jesus was in talking about, was much deeper than water baptism.
That's why Nicodemus ask Jesus, can a man enter the womb of his mother the second time
So it's much deeper than water baptism

I think it is pretty clear that Nicodemus missed the allusion or metaphor.

 

[leov]

If Jesus is speaking about being born from above, then how does being born of the water fit into being born from above?

Note that Jesus did say in John 3:5
"Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God"
So how does water fit into being born from above?
So Jesus is not speaking about being born from above.
Otherwise have to figure out how water fits

water and spirit, in physical body
(Water) into spirit body transformation (Spirit).