1. Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

Featured Blasphemy

Discussion in 'Religious Debates' started by Wu Wei, Mar 3, 2021.

  1. Shadow Wolf

    Shadow Wolf Rival's Wife

    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2005
    Messages:
    72,286
    Ratings:
    +28,172
    Religion:
    God is in the Rain
    Not the first time he's had issues with their blasphemy laws. At one point the band Behemoth was allegedly banned from performing in their home country of Poland for tearing a Bible up on stage.
    And Behemoth is a very anti-Christian band. If you don't like it don't watch or listen.
     
    #61 Shadow Wolf, Mar 3, 2021
    Last edited: Mar 4, 2021
    • Like Like x 1
    • Informative Informative x 1
  2. Fallen Prophet

    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2021
    Messages:
    210
    Ratings:
    +40
    The freedom to offend seems to only apply to those on the left or the anti-religious.

    If anyone on the right or a religious person says or does something offensive - the established media and big tech censure them and activists do whatever they can to ruin their lives.

    Either way - we should all be free to say and do what we want as long as it does not impede the rights of others.

    No one has the right not to be offended.
     
  3. Heyo

    Heyo Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2019
    Messages:
    6,489
    Ratings:
    +5,575
    Religion:
    none
    Nope. It only requires the court to believe that a person of the blasphemed religion feels hurt by the remark and that hurting people by insulting their religious beliefs (as wrong as they may be) is illegal.
    The hypocrisy only starts when religious beliefs are treated different from secular beliefs.
     
  4. Heyo

    Heyo Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2019
    Messages:
    6,489
    Ratings:
    +5,575
    Religion:
    none
    It's pretty easy. Rational morality is dealt with by philosophy. It tackles questions like basic principles of morality, how to derive actionable guilds for behaviour from those and discusses moral dilemmas.
    Religious "morality" teaches how to behave without having to think long and hard about basic principles and rational deduction of the behaviours.
     
  5. lewisnotmiller

    lewisnotmiller Grand Hat
    Staff Member Premium Member

    Joined:
    May 6, 2013
    Messages:
    19,071
    Ratings:
    +11,314
    Religion:
    atheist
    Yes, it clarifies. In that context, I agree with you.
     
  6. Heyo

    Heyo Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2019
    Messages:
    6,489
    Ratings:
    +5,575
    Religion:
    none
    With the Euthyphro dilemma - Wikipedia.
     
    • Winner Winner x 1
  7. Earthtank

    Earthtank Active Member

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2019
    Messages:
    789
    Ratings:
    +265
    Religion:
    Deist
    I don't know why are you asking me?
     
  8. Earthtank

    Earthtank Active Member

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2019
    Messages:
    789
    Ratings:
    +265
    Religion:
    Deist
    You are missing the point, Christianity, Judaism and Islam all say that all mortality comes from God, so whether you want to say that is based of philosophy or not, they will say philosophers got it from God and so forth. Unless, someone can claim and prove objective morality or even rational morality, this whole talk of of rational vs religious morality is just a waste of time.

    As someone who's studied Christianity, Islam and Judaism, I can you tell, without a shadow of a doubt, that you are 100% incorrect in this statement.
     
  9. Earthtank

    Earthtank Active Member

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2019
    Messages:
    789
    Ratings:
    +265
    Religion:
    Deist
    Not sure what this proves, I read the first few sentences but I will be honestly i am not going to read the whole thing
     
  10. Heyo

    Heyo Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2019
    Messages:
    6,489
    Ratings:
    +5,575
    Religion:
    none
    Because you are arguing the law.
     
    • Winner Winner x 1
  11. Heyo

    Heyo Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2019
    Messages:
    6,489
    Ratings:
    +5,575
    Religion:
    none
    Do I understand you correctly that you are saying there is no difference between rational and religious morality and I can use rationality to discuss morality with religious people? (After having them taught what rationality is.)
     
  12. Heyo

    Heyo Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2019
    Messages:
    6,489
    Ratings:
    +5,575
    Religion:
    none
    Not knowing the Euthyphro Dilemma and not wanting to know says a lot about your interest in morality. (And here comes the difference between rational and religious morality again: Euthyphro is the central point of rational morality against religious morality. You have not studied morality when you can't answer it.)
     
    • Winner Winner x 1
  13. Shadow Wolf

    Shadow Wolf Rival's Wife

    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2005
    Messages:
    72,286
    Ratings:
    +28,172
    Religion:
    God is in the Rain
    Here's how it works with the issue at hand.
    Darksi goes on stage, he pulls out a Bible, says some people call it holy, but he can't agree, he says it's filled with the greatest evils ever and tears pages out. He has a point, he is justified in his claim. This has nothing much to do with politics (especially not notions of Left versus Right - keep in mind this is another country), except for the unholy union of church and state that dares to have and enforce blasphemy laws. And Darski is a Satanist. In this case, blasphemy to the Christians is the act of a religious ritual to the Satanists.
     
    • Like Like x 3
  14. Musing Bassist

    Musing Bassist Mihi Quaestio Factus Sum

    Joined:
    May 18, 2014
    Messages:
    2,760
    Ratings:
    +1,330
    Religion:
    Ordinariate Catholic
    No actually. It is an indication of the deep conviction of many Poles that the image of the Virgin Mary represents something sacred to them. Something that is owed reverence. Your incredulity that people hold deep and sincere religious beliefs is not proof of insecurity. That said, as little sympathy as I have for the guy, I don't think being an arse on Facebook should be a criminal offense.

    Your implicit comparison of Catholicism with Neo-Nazism aside, I question the existence of any such "right". At least as you phrase it. By all means, advocate for atheism all you want. Argue against Catholicism until you're blue in the face. But I'm not convinced that a society owes you the "right" to publicly desecrate objects of deep religious sentiment. It may allow you to do so, but again, I'm not sold on the idea you're owed it as a human right.
     
    #74 Musing Bassist, Mar 4, 2021
    Last edited: Mar 4, 2021
  15. viole

    viole Metaphysical Naturalist
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2014
    Messages:
    10,290
    Ratings:
    +5,127
    Religion:
    Gnostic Atheism
    It depends what we mean with "offend". I think that offending someone directly because of her complexion, culture, religion etc. is NOT a fundamental right.

    On then other hand, offending/ridiculing the tenets of a certain culture, political movement, religion, IS a fundamental right.

    For instance: saying "you are a primitive and despicable person for allowing female genital mutilation" is a no go, while saying "female genital mutilation is a ridiculous, primitive and unacceptable superstition" is a go.

    I never understood why offending God, Mary or Whomever is considered so bad. I mean, we are talking of entities that I am sure can take care of themselves if they existed, for instance by zapping the offender out of existence, or some other magical thing. I think they take it as an offence because they are not so positive they really exist, either, and do not like it to be reminded. Who can say?

    Ciao

    - viole
     
    • Like Like x 2
  16. icehorse

    icehorse Veteran Member
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2014
    Messages:
    10,686
    Ratings:
    +6,108
    Religion:
    spiritual anti-theist : )
    I think your list is problematic. I would say, let's not conflate things a person cannot change, with things a person can change. A person cannot change their complexion. A person CAN change their religion, because after all, a religion is just a set of ideas.
     
  17. Earthtank

    Earthtank Active Member

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2019
    Messages:
    789
    Ratings:
    +265
    Religion:
    Deist
    I feel comfortable enough with my understanding of morality. I have put countless hours studying it, just because I have not read every single article or opinion on it does not mean I don't know what I am talking about. If you would like to summarize what the Euthyphro dilemma and we can talk about it, I have no problem with that. I am sure it's got good points it makes as well as going to have its own weakness and possibly assumes a bunch of stuff as well that I or many disagree with. I can't be changing my stance on what i think or believe every time someone has a new or different opinion.
     
  18. Earthtank

    Earthtank Active Member

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2019
    Messages:
    789
    Ratings:
    +265
    Religion:
    Deist
    No I am saying you can NOT objectively prove that there is a difference between rational and religious morality.

    Let's use killing as an example, is it a rational or religious morality? Well, rationally and logically speaking we know as a general statement that killing is wrong, but so do the Jews, Muslims and Christians and God has already said so in their books. So when we say killing is wrong is that a rational or religious moral stance? or both?
     
  19. Earthtank

    Earthtank Active Member

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2019
    Messages:
    789
    Ratings:
    +265
    Religion:
    Deist
    Don't recall arguing the law. Can you please be more specific?
     
  20. Erebus

    Erebus Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2009
    Messages:
    5,399
    Ratings:
    +2,408
    Religion:
    Pagan
    I'm all in favour of punishing blasphemy.

    It seems to me that there are far too many un-stepped on images of the Virgin Mary out there. This is deeply offensive to Satanists and those responsible for displaying these un-stepped on images should be held to account. Claiming that the images are a part of their religious belief is clearly nothing more than childishness.


    Okay, serious face on now. By all means criticise Darski for stepping on the image. Christians are critical of Satanists, Satanists are critical of Christians and around and around we go. That's just free speech in action. The moment you decide that blasphemy should be illegal though, you run into the issue of deciding whose religion takes precedence. That rarely ends well.
     
    • Like Like x 2
    • Winner Winner x 2
    • Useful Useful x 1
Loading...