Sleeppy
Fatalist. Christian. Pacifist.
I want to bring to mind this conversation.
I've had this conversation with you and Jayhawker. If you want to argue about idolatry, what is that?
Part of your response to the above..
I also noticed your post in the Jeremiah thread. Either way you to want to translate it, God is still the source of righteousness. Not men. Notice it says God raises the righteous shoot, not that the righteous shoot raised itself.
Jeremiah 23:5-6 Lo, days are coming -- an affirmation of Jehovah, And I have raised to David a righteous shoot, And a king hath reigned and acted wisely, And done judgment and righteousness in the earth. In his days is Judah saved, and Israel dwelleth confidently, And this his name that Jehovah proclaimeth him, 'Our Righteousness.'
Harmonious said:Further... You fail to comprehend the Jewish perspective on arguing with God in a legal battle.
We have such a story, and God was proud of His Jewish children who defeated Him, as the Torah is no longer in Heaven, and it is what was taught to the Jews, from God, to Moses, to the sages, to our teachers.
So, yes - God commanded the specifications of who and what the Messiah will be. And not even God Himself can change the rules.
Yes, people aren't perfect. But Jews have been commanded to look to our teachers, human though they are. Individuals might be wrong, but we believe in our teachers.
So in short: yes, we can tell God what we expect. Especially when we quote back what we were taught what to expect.
I've had this conversation with you and Jayhawker. If you want to argue about idolatry, what is that?
Sleeppy said:I haven't failed to comprehend anything I've said to you. It disturbs me very greatly to hear you saying that you, the creation, can overcome the Creator. There is one God. One Almighty. One All-knowing. So in what sense is He overcome? In the mind of a nation largely given over to arrogance? The Almighty is the one who has given your teachers over to corruption and evil ignorance. You've relied too much on the creation, and are slowly and silently being choked by idolatry. Don't you know that there is no righteous man, ever, without God making him so? There have always been Jews believing they were/are chosen by their merit, when it is God who created every being on this planet. It is God Almighty who exalted them above Egypt, as an example, not only to everyone else, but to themselves as well. Without God, the Israelites were evil, as was the world around them. Don't make God out to be some wavering pushover. He's always had a plan, and we have no power over it. We are following. Don't think we are leading.
Part of your response to the above..
Harmonious said:That is a horribly slanderous thing to say. Of course there are righteous people. I will admit that there are no PERFECT people.
But then again, according to my belief system, God doesn't judge on an "all or nothing" merit system. It is more along the lines of "we do our best, and God will do the rest." No one is perfect, but God. God knows this, and doesn't demand or command the impossible. We are expected to try our best to do what we can, and we are exempt from what we cannot do, until the circumstances change that would make it possible to perform again.
The demand for perfection in human performance was an ego-driven invention of Jesus to create the need of a demi-god to "fix" an impossibility that HE demanded. Who was he, to make such demands? THIS is self-promotional self-deification on his part.
(See? That door swings both ways.)
I also noticed your post in the Jeremiah thread. Either way you to want to translate it, God is still the source of righteousness. Not men. Notice it says God raises the righteous shoot, not that the righteous shoot raised itself.
Jeremiah 23:5-6 Lo, days are coming -- an affirmation of Jehovah, And I have raised to David a righteous shoot, And a king hath reigned and acted wisely, And done judgment and righteousness in the earth. In his days is Judah saved, and Israel dwelleth confidently, And this his name that Jehovah proclaimeth him, 'Our Righteousness.'