Blasphemy?

[TruthSearch101]

If YHWY says "Though shall have no other gods before me" Exodus 20:3 Deuteronomy 5:7....

Is believing in Jesus as GOD, or even as a gateway that you NEED to go through before you get to GOD... actually breaking the first commandment?

 

[rusra02]

If YHWY says "Though shall have no other gods before me" Exodus 20:3 Deuteronomy 5:7....

Is believing in Jesus as GOD, or even as a gateway that you NEED to go through before you get to GOD... actually breaking the first commandment?

Jesus never claimed to be Almighty God, but rather God's Son. Since God selected Jesus as his representative, I believe it is entirely proper to approach Jehovah through his Son. (John 6:57,58) A modern, literal Bible translation renders Exodus 20:3 this way: "You must not have any gods against my face." Jesus being a god, or powerful godlike one, is not in any way a challenge against the one true God, Jehovah. (John 17:3)

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[johnhanks]

JA modern, literal Bible translation renders Exodus 20:3 this way: "You must not have any gods against my face."

Does this modern, literal translation mean god literally has a face?

 

[roberto]

Does this modern, literal translation mean god literally has a face?

I've read in the "Jewish Book" that Adam and Eve thought so.

 

[rusra02]

Does this modern, literal translation mean god literally has a face?

A literal translation is one that faithfully translates the original language wording without taking liberties. It has nothing to do with the symbolic usage of human features to explain God's qualities or acts. Jesus saying at Luke 11:20 that "by means of God's finger I expel the demons" is not to be understood as God having literal fingers. Such Anthropomorphisms or personifications helps us understand things about God, who is a Spirit. (John 4:24)

 

[idav]

If YHWY says "Though shall have no other gods before me" Exodus 20:3 Deuteronomy 5:7....

Is believing in Jesus as GOD, or even as a gateway that you NEED to go through before you get to GOD... actually breaking the first commandment?

Yes and breaks the idol worship law.

 

[Reverend Richard]

What you quote is from the Old Testament. Since Jesus is a New Testament character, from John 14 verses 8-9, we have:

8 - Philip said to him, “Lord, show us the Father, and it is enough for us.”

9 - Jesus said to him, “Have I been with you so long, and you still do not know me, Philip? Whoever has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, ‘Show us the Father’?
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While I do not believe any of the Bible is literally true, most conservative Christian do, and this would seem to support that.

 

[Harmonious]

If YHWY says "Though shall have no other gods before me" Exodus 20:3 Deuteronomy 5:7....

Is believing in Jesus as GOD, or even as a gateway that you NEED to go through before you get to GOD... actually breaking the first commandment?

Yes. It is one of the main reasons Jews resent Christian missionaries. There are others, but this is a seriously big one.

 

[Harmonious]

A literal translation is one that faithfully translates the original language wording without taking liberties. It has nothing to do with the symbolic usage of human features to explain God's qualities or acts. Jesus saying at Luke 11:20 that "by means of God's finger I expel the demons" is not to be understood as God having literal fingers. Such Anthropomorphisms or personifications helps us understand things about God, who is a Spirit. (John 4:24)

I don't usually have good things to say about the Book of John, but I agree with this passage.

 

[johnhanks]

A literal translation is one that faithfully translates the original language wording without taking liberties. It has nothing to do with the symbolic usage of human features to explain God's qualities or acts. Jesus saying at Luke 11:20 that "by means of God's finger I expel the demons" is not to be understood as God having literal fingers. Such Anthropomorphisms or personifications helps us understand things about God, who is a Spirit. (John 4:24)

So what was Moses looking at when god let him see his "back parts" in Exodus 33?

 

[Harmonious]

So what was Moses looking at when god let him see his "back parts" in Exodus 33?

The after effects of a situation wherein God was involved.

Moses was known to talk to God "face to face." If God doesn't HAVE a face, the only thing this can mean is that Moses had a clarity of understanding of God's words that was unprecedented (with the possible exception of Adam and Eve), and never duplicated (with the possible exception of Bil'am).

God doesn't have a face or a back. These are words we use (and Moses took dictation to write) to understand interaction with God.

 

[Sleeppy]

No. Read Isaiah. What does it say? Pierced for our transgressions? Read Numbers 21:9. Was the bronze snake looked at in the same way that the golden calf was?

 

[Harmonious]

Read Isaiah. What does it say? Pierced for our transgressions?

No one was pierced... The verse, referring to Israel, says:

53:5. But he was pained because of our transgressions, crushed because of our iniquities; the chastisement of our welfare was upon him, and with his wound we were healed.

Pained, not pierced.

I still won't be so crass as to say that you are lying, even though I think you are being dense.

Read Numbers 21:9. Was the bronze snake looked at in the same way that the golden calf was?

The bronze snake was an interesting idea that misfired, and when it was being wrongly used, Hezekiah fixed the bad judgment by melting it down.

It was supposed to be used as a learning tool. We were supposed to have grown out of its use, especially when it was so easily abused. (Funny - many Christians say that about the concept of the commandments. And now Jesus is supposed to fill a similar role? Maybe anyone is supposed to grow out of the use of Jesus as a focusing tool. Hmm...)

Jesus is supposed to have said "None can come to the Father but through him."

That is idolatry right there.

People were supposed to look up when they saw the snake and think of heaven, and think of God.

But you know... Tzitzit are supposed to remind Jews to think of the water, of the sky, of God...

All without an idolatrous image.

 

[Levite]

If YHWH says "Though shall have no other gods before me" Exodus 20:3 Deuteronomy 5:7....

Is believing in Jesus as GOD, or even as a gateway that you NEED to go through before you get to GOD... actually breaking the first commandment?

That's certainly high on the list of reasons Jews don't embrace Christianity....

Whether Jesus is said to be God, or part of God, or the physical embodiment of God, or the literal son of God, or to be the only gateway through which one can have a relationship to God, all are equally unacceptable and insupportable to the Jewish tradition, and believing in them would violate the first two commandments of the Ten, and some others out of the 613 as well.

 

[Shermana]

If YHWY says "Though shall have no other gods before me" Exodus 20:3 Deuteronomy 5:7....

Is believing in Jesus as GOD, or even as a gateway that you NEED to go through before you get to GOD... actually breaking the first commandment?

Yes, the Trinity is blasphemy and idolatry, and it gives my fellow ethnic Jews much false ammunition against the being of Christ altogether, who was probably more or less thought at first to be the incarnation of the "Logos", the "Wisdom", the firstborn creating Angel/Heavenly Being. One of the earliest witnesses, Justin Martyr refers to Jesus as an Angel, and some of Paul's Epistles, when read without Trinitarian grammar, indicate that Jesus was " a god", in the same use of the word "god" for Angels and Heavenly denizens and departed spirits like with Samuel.

Another problem is issues like John 1:1c, where its an anarthrous Theos and should read "A god" like in Acts 12:22. Trinitarian grammar gets in the way of honest discussion of the text in many cases.

In addition, because of how much the Trinity has distorted the understanding of who Yashua was and what he taught and how it applies, I say it should be dismantled with fire.

 

[Shermana]

Jesus is supposed to have said "None can come to the Father but through him."

That is idolatry right there.

Not if Jesus was the incarnation of the Highest Guardian orders of Seraphim.

 

[Harmonious]

Not if Jesus was the incarnation of the Highest Guardian orders of Seraphim.

Yes it would be.

People are supposed to talk to God. We don't talk to God through an angel, even if we like this angel, or he is a high level angel.

Talking to God via an angel is still idolatry.

 

[Shermana]

Yes it would be.

People are supposed to talk to God. We don't talk to God through an angel, even if we like this angel, or he is a high level angel.

Talking to God via an angel is still idolatry.

Who said that passage is about talking to God through Jesus?

 

[Sleeppy]

:slap:

Perhaps by YOUR lights we might be wrong, but we are NOT lying. The fact that your position in the face of the SIMPLE text shows that you are baldly incorrect.

But I wouldn't be so crass as to say that you were lying, even if I thought that you were.
No one was pierced... The verse, referring to Israel, says:

53:5. But he was pained because of our transgressions, crushed because of our iniquities; the chastisement of our welfare was upon him, and with his wound we were healed.

Pained, not pierced.

I still won't be so crass as to say that you are lying, even though I think you are being dense.

In all that text above.. there's no real counter argument. Interesting language used to refer to Israel using he, him, his.. If that's what you're saying?

The bronze snake was an interesting idea that misfired, and when it was being wrongly used, Hezekiah fixed the bad judgment by melting it down.

A bad judgement on who's part?

It was supposed to be used as a learning tool. We were supposed to have grown out of its use, especially when it was so easily abused. (Funny - many Christians say that about the concept of the commandments. And now Jesus is supposed to fill a similar role? Maybe anyone is supposed to grow out of the use of Jesus as a focusing tool. Hmm...)

Put your points out more clearly. You're right it was supposed to be used as a learning tool, and was. And Jesus did fulfill a very similar role. Grow out of Jesus? You've answered that below.

Jesus is supposed to have said "None can come to the Father but through him."

That is idolatry right there. People were supposed to look up when they saw the snake and think of heaven, and think of God.

But you know... Tzitzit are supposed to remind Jews to think of the water, of the sky, of God...

All without an idolatrous image.

As noted above, the bronze serpent served the same purpose. The Father's power healed them by their faith in the serpent's purpose. No one should look at the bronze serpent as God. And no one should look at the human Jesus as God. It was the Spirit in Him that is God.

 

[Sleeppy]

Yes it would be.

People are supposed to talk to God. We don't talk to God through an angel, even if we like this angel, or he is a high level angel.

Talking to God via an angel is still idolatry.

What? Exodus 3:2 came to mind first.. Among many other instances.